Have You Tried Remixing Software?

[normvork]

Originally Posted by thommy2458

I guess I still have the same question as
Norm-what audio software is affordable and
simple for doing edit's only? I don't want to
produce new music just make clean edits
of older tracks without spending more than
100 dollars.Anyone? Norm,have you decided
on anything yet?

Thom

Thom,
I am going to try Sonic Foundry Acid Music 2.0. It has a beat mapping tool (which I don't think Audacity has.)
This tool helps to get those overdubs lined up in synch, which supposedly relieves lots of headaches when you are mixing a track with a live recording of a human drummer.
I got it for under $10.00 on ebay and it will work on my windows 98 computer. If I like it I can buy a newer version for $60-$70 called Acid Studio 6.0 which I would want to wait for, since my current computer is over 7 years old and is not fast enough nor enough hard drive space for the new version. A good book to introduce yourself to this topic is called Burning Down The House by Elliot Van Buskirk. Usually a cheap copy available at Amazon.com.
I really want to try Sound Forge but no cheap copies found yet.
I also will probably try Audacity. It's free and it can do a lot. From my reading it makes sense to have both softwares.

[thommy2458]

Originally Posted by normvork

If I like it I can buy a newer version for $60-$70 called Acid Studio 6.0 which I would want to wait for, since my current computer is over 7 years old and is not fast enough nor enough hard drive space for the new version. A good book to introduce yourself to this topic is called Burning Down The House by Elliot Van Buskirk. Usually a cheap copy available at Amazon.com.
I really want to try Sound Forge but no cheap copies found yet.
I also will probably try Audacity. It's free and it can do a lot. From my reading it makes sense to have both softwares.

Thanks Norm-this is a big help.So if I have a new computor with Windows XP I 'm guessing
the Acid Studio might work for me.Norm,if you have time,can you keep us posted how this worked out for you?Thanks Thom

[normvork]

Originally Posted by thommy2458

Thanks Norm-this is a big help.So if I have a new computor with Windows XP I 'm guessing
the Acid Studio might work for me.Norm,if you have time,can you keep us posted how this worked out for you?Thanks Thom

Will get right on it as soon as the software gets here. The song Mr. Postman is going through my head. I wonder if Karen Carpenter could be set to disco.

[normvork]

DO NOT BUY ACID 2.0!
I did not know that the beat mapping tool was not added until version 3.0.
Withuout beatmapper, 2.0 is useless for remixing. You can create some interesting compositions in a range of genres, especially house music or new age background ambient music very easily. But if you load a prerecorded music track onto 2.0 you can not make it fit into the rhythms they set up for you on the program's grid. The acid 2.0 program arrived and within half an hour I had made a pretty fun background track for something danceable. But you gotta get the lead vocals into the mix. Singing is not my forte, but if it was I'd be having lots of fun making original music right now.
Anyhow, Acid Music 3.0, 4.0 and Acid Studio 6 all have the beatmapper.
Beatmapper automatically figures out where the beats are in a song you import and lets you correct it if it screws up a little. Beatmapper aligns all the overlaying sound and loops (which you would apply) over your "remix" tune so the extra drums and basslines will fit properly. At least this is how it should work.
I'll find out when the next postal delivery comes around with my 3.0 version. In the meantime I have to score a newer computer with 400Mhz operating speed cuz I'm living with a windows 98 computer @ 267Mhz. Version 3.0 requires more speed than I now have.

As for Audacity, I downloaded it this afternoon. Have to do some self education to figure out what to do with it. The nice thing about Acid is that it comes with lots of loops. Audacity needs to have you get your own, as far as I can tell.

[normvork]

Originally Posted by Graham_Start

Please, let's not use the term "remix" here, since without access to the multi-track masters, it is not possible to re-mix anything. All that is being done is editing and putting additional material on top.

Sorry Graham, but I use the word "Remix" for lack of a concise alternative term. Should I call it an "Overmix" or "overdub" or "pc reedit" or what? The end product which I am seeking to create most closely resembles what I have known as a "remix."

[Graham_Start]

Originally Posted by normvork

Sorry Graham, but I use the word "Remix" for lack of a concise alternative term. Should I call it an "Overmix" or "overdub" or "pc reedit" or what? The end product which I am seeking to create most closely resembles what I have known as a "remix."

Re-edit, fanmix, mash-up, whatever... but unless you've got the original multitracks in your hands, it's not a true remix. :)

[K-Bee]

Whatever you may call the finished product mix, remix or whatever, there's no doubt in my mind that the combination of Audacity and Acid Pro is a winning one. I've been using various versions of these two applications since 2001 and they get by warmest recommendation.
And don't forget, it's all a matter of having a good ear really, if you don't understand the basics of music (bars, measures, keys and all that), it doesn't matter what equipment you use. The result will be crap!

[normvork]

Originally Posted by K-Bee

Whatever you may call the finished product mix, remix or whatever, there's no doubt in my mind that the combination of Audacity and Acid Pro is a winning one. I've been using various versions of these two applications since 2001 and they get by warmest recommendation.
And don't forget, it's all a matter of having a good ear really, if you don't understand the basics of music (bars, measures, keys and all that), it doesn't matter what equipment you use. The result will be crap!

Is there a resouce to determine what key a song is recorded in, or do I just go by ear? I remember BITD seeing an ad for a book listing keys for DJ.s to mix by. Is there anything online these days?

[K-Bee]

I'm not aware of any resources letting you know what key a certain song is recorded in. The easiest thing is to have a musical instrument nearby and go from there I guess

[QUINNY]

Originally Posted by K-Bee

I'm not aware of any resources letting you know what key a certain song is recorded in. The easiest thing is to have a musical instrument nearby and go from there I guess

KBee: I think you need to come out of the closet and tell us more about NJS4E. So when you used to post your love for Disco music.....you were just usin' us, teasin' us, what?

As for Audacity and simple editing. It is perfect for doing this and quite frankly I'm amazed (and worried) that a free audio editing software can do tasks that would have been 'professional only' just a few years ago. One annoying thing is its inability to scrub or playback at a slower speed without having to change tempo and then undo....which means it is fiddly to get the exact edit point. So far as I can determine it doesn't allow markers to be set up neither, so you have to be very much 'on the ball' to suss out the exact spot for editing once you've 'artificially scrubbed to the point' and undone it again, as the screen tends to skip places if you're not very careful.

All in all Audacity is bloomin' marvellous, BUT terribly, terribly tiresome.

[QUINNY]

For those guys who have some knowledge of different editing software:

How effective is the beat mapping/matching capability? Does it allow mixes to be done quickly, either fully auto or semi auto?
I've just done the mix below and its taken ages using Audacity. I had to get at individual beats and rearrange their timing, even though the two records are fairly closely matched tempo-wise. Live, with two record decks (or two CD decks) I could have probably done it in a tenth of the time, even allowing for several dry runs to sort out all the ins and outs of it.

http://www.zshare.net/audio/future-galaxy-mix-mp3.html

[Naso]

Any audio recording and editing software will be of use. Suggests to use FlexiMusic Wave Editor for recordings and FlexiMusic Composer, a multi-track program for composing, editing and mixing of music using sampled instrument sounds..

[K-Bee]

Originally Posted by quinny

KBee: I think you need to come out of the closet and tell us more about NJS4E. So when you used to post your love for Disco music.....you were just usin' us, teasin' us, what?

Well Quinny, I like quite a few genres of music actually - if you've pressed the NJS4E link, you'll know already
Obvously I'll be a disco follower to the day I die, but I'm also interested in other aspects of dance music. I grew up on a diet of 80s soul/funk and the stuff covered at NJS4E is a logical extension for me, and it's been the site I've dedicated the largest amount of time to lately. Unfortunately my presence at discomusic.com has suffered in the process. I'm probably more of a lurker here now than it was the case a few years ago. That could easily change though

OK back to the topic then.
As for Quinny's question about beatmapping, I must admit I never really use the option in Acid Pro, as it somewhat screws up the track for me (probably due to my lack of knowledge about certain aspects of the program). I usually go by my ears only, and just move things around manually. If it sounds right, it is right!
Lately I've only been mixing together new jack swing tracks though. The syncopated rhythms and huge amounts of breaks in that music style poses a bigger challenge to me (technically speaking) than four on the floor disco.

[kaliffen]

Originally Posted by normvork

Is there a resouce to determine what key a song is recorded in,

Use the this program, just one of many

I use many different program, but worling with pre sequencer made music requires beat mapping for best (easy) result. My favorit is Abletons live, it is incredible for messing around with samples, however i your dream of just removing the vocals is not something i have had any luck with. However removing the cetered parts is quite easy in Live, you just turn a knob and get to listen to all the panned parts in realtime. Best track sofar to do this on is "Angel in my Pocket" by Change.

Im working on remixing a few classic danish disco tracks from the original masters that were put in a oven heated and prepared, then transfered to pro tools for "real remixing" Graham_Start style.

However i would prefer to manipulate the separate tracks in Live, then port it back tp pro tools. Ah well cant have everything.

[normvork]

Hi again everyone. Well, I got a copy Acid Music 3.0. Still using a very obsolete computer but could not stand to keep waiting until I got a new model so went ahead a few days ago and tried using the program. This computer does not meet minimum software requirements as stated by Sonic Foundry but it is working anyway.

Anyhow, for my first project I tried to "remix" (sorry Graham) I've Had It by Fanny (1974) into a Disco NRG tune. The beatmapper did not work very well....very off beat.
Giving up on that for now, I tried to see if Popcorn by Hot Butter (1972) could get beatmapped okay. I figured it's done with synthesizers and all so it must have a steady rhythm. WRONG! It varies from 134 to 136+ bpm and the beatmapper failed again. Not to be stopped from my quest to create my own disco version of Popcorn, I got out my book on the subject of computer music software and found out how to manually set the downbeat of each measure (there are about 89 measures to this tune) and spent about 2 hours marking the beats and tempo markers. Being able to zoom in on the sound waves made it pretty easy to spot the beats but there are a lot of steps to setting and adjusting the markers.
WOW! It worked!
I was able to add a disco beat and other percussion affects anywhere I wanted and it automatically meshed perfectly to the original (variable) BPM. There are supposed to be ways to get the whole thing reset to one consistant BPM but that did not work for me.
So, in response to Quinny's question, I am not impressed so far with the Acid Beatmapper as an automatic tool, But if you do not mind spending lots of time to get accurate results, you will be rewarded. I am very happy to finally have a full length disco version of Popcorn. The Patti Brooks snippet in her Pop Collage Medley just did not satisfy me.
Next on my "disco remake" project list is the Pinups LP cut City Life from 1981. It is pretty much electronic but lacks a good bass and drum line. I think it would make a great dance tune with a little help. Maybe by 1981 they got the BPM's to be consistant enough for the beatmapper software.