It's My Life

[BrunoRepublic]

Originally Posted by QUINNY

Graham: Weren't nearly all 12" mixes deconstructions? All they have ever been (in 99% of cases) are loops of things with instruments removed or accentuated and then re-edited. If that's not a deconstruction, then I don't know what is.
I agree that today, the deconstrction has taken a more severe route.

Strictly speaking, yes... although some 12s are simply longer versions (7/LP versions fade sooner or are edits, as opposed to 12s being extensions). But the term "remix" is so meaningless these days... I was referring to the current practice of removing 98% of the elements of the original song and making something almost completely unrecognizable. If Talk Talk's version of "It's My Life" was remixed today, they'd probably only keep something like the line "I'd pay to lose" and repeat that endlessly over a bass-heavy 909 rhythm.

[markydefad]

Once upon a time in tha "Olden Days"...

a good 3 &1/2 minute radio record could be extended using the intrumental track and maybe adding some new percussive elements into a "Definitive" version of the track-- not sacrificing any of the charms of the original just "ENCHANCING" them into a more PERFECT record. :D :D :D

Case in point, Tom Moulton's extension of a 3+ minute "Make Me Believe In You" by Patti Jo into a smashing 6:34 version that just kills on the dancefloor. :D :D :D

This was the norm--"Enhancement"--til somewhere in the mid-80s---Remixers appointed themselves "artists" and started to radically rework (DECONSTRUCT) all the elements of a track--eliminating everything except "some" of the vocals. Most of these guys were knob-turners-- NOT musicians. They could program synths & drum macnines...not compose music. They were allowed to ruin many records in the process. They got rich. We stopped listening, buying and caring. :evil: :evil: :evil:

[QUINNY]

Marky: Maybe the better 12" were as you describe, but most of them are de-constructions.
Quite often you can hear either some crosstalk (spillage from an adjacent track, where they used to record at such hot levels) or extraneous noises where either faders weren't completely closed or maybe tracks were still being fed to an FX device via the auxillary bus. Most 12" releases were simply the choruses and/or verses stripped down to bare essentials as an intro and with added percussion for the breaks. Listen closely (as I do) and you can hear a multitude of, what would nowadays be, dodgy edits too. Very few records were played from beginning to end (but some most definitely were) and very few didn't have edits galore. As we know, many of the early 12" were 'blends' of two masters or two records (acetates?) and so would have ended up as true verse chorus extensions and amalgams, but very little after 1976/7 would have been done that way.

De-construction did not begin in 1983/4/5....no way.

[markydefad]

"Deconstruction" (the breakdown) to a bassline and a beat is cool: Case in point the terrific breakdown by Steve Thompson & Michael Barbiero of Talk Talk's 1984 "It's My Life". KILLER on the dance floor. I always loved it when they broke it down to just the beat and added the other elements back, one by one. :D

The "deconstruction" I'm talking about is throwing away ALL the elements of a record and making it over totally from scratch. I've read Junior Vasquez state that for his remixes all that's provided by the record company is a vocal track of the original tune. He then "composes" the remix.

This is the "deconstruction" of a tune I find so vile. It's the original song in name only. The music is gone. :evil: :evil: :evil:

[markydefad]

Maybe I'm using the wrong "term" (i.e. "deconstruction"). I have nothing against "edits"--we loved the bedroom "edits" Bobby Viterelli did to breathe fresh life into stale records at the Troc. I'm talking a radical revisionist reworking...not "edits".

Maybe I should say late 1980s--1990s, in terms of time period. I recall buying a Bette Midler 12" of a song i'd heard (something about "Moonlight"), circa 1989, and they'd "grafted" a Soul II Soul-type beat onto it and I thought "Oh, no-- this is just WRONG"!!!!


"look what they've done to my songs-- MAAAAAAAAAA!!! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
And I've never been the same. :P :P :P

[markydefad]

OK, the year was 1990. The year EVERYTHING in music started to go WRONG!!!!

Bette Midler's "Moonlight Dancing" 12". Played it once, vomited and filed it away. :evil: :evil: :evil:

I never thought it would happen to me. I always enjoyed all types of music. But, now in retrospect 14 years later, that music was better than 98% of what's coming out today!!! Except for the occasional discovery like Scissor Sisters, Maroon 5, Jet, Franz Ferdinand, and the classy perennials like Diana Krall & Annie Lennox...it's all about the OLDIES at my house nowadays.

[markydefad]

Another DARK signpost that it was all over for me....

the smash hit remix of Tori Amos' "Professional Widow" wherein the phrase "gotta be big" was repeated 500 times. Wut? :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

This, I thought, is a SONG??? People want to dance ...to THIS???

Have the Pod People taken over??? Did I miss the orientation meeting??? What's happened??? The loonies are running the asylum!!!!

I'm checkin' out ...goom-bye.

[markydefad]

P.S. Yes, it's slow in Hollywood today. Haven't ya noticed?? Of maybe I just don't give a shit today??? :o

[QUINNY]

Marky: A couple of posts from me and ya go mad on us !?!?!?
I thought you were made of sterner stuff. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I hear what you're saying. Just wanted to make anyone reading this aware that de-construction started with the disco 12" in or around 1976. (dance) Music hasn't been the same since, so we only have ourselves to blame.

[markydefad]

oh but Keem-o-sabee, (think Tonto!!!) :oops:

Deconstruction before 1989--Good

After 1989--BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD.

[BrunoRepublic]

Originally Posted by QUINNY

Marky: Maybe the better 12" were as you describe, but most of them are de-constructions.
Quite often you can hear either some crosstalk (spillage from an adjacent track, where they used to record at such hot levels) or extraneous noises where either faders weren't completely closed or maybe tracks were still being fed to an FX device via the auxillary bus.

True, but often you can hear this on the album tracks as they recorded various tracks but later chose to mute them.

Most 12" releases were simply the choruses and/or verses stripped down to bare essentials as an intro and with added percussion for the breaks. Listen closely (as I do) and you can hear a multitude of, what would nowadays be, dodgy edits too. Very few records were played from beginning to end (but some most definitely were) and very few didn't have edits galore.

I read that Michael Zager had considerable distaste for this sort of process -- supposedly he wrote and recorded all of his songs as long versions, and that the radio versions were edits of those.

And yeah, loads of what today sound like very amateurish edits on many of these tracks....

[QUINNY]

Originally Posted by markydefad

oh but Keem-o-sabee, (think Tonto!!!) :oops:

Deconstruction before 1989--Good

After 1989--BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD.

Marky: Silver's just thrown me and brought me back down to earth.

Are we talkin' USA pre 1989 GOOD/post BAAAD or are we talking generally (where the other 6.25 billion of us live)? :D

It's an interesting thought, but I think you'd be singing a totally different tune had you lived outside the USA. But there again, according to you guys virtually nothing from the disco period has been released on CD. Personally, I'm amazed at how much material has been put onto CD, Made in USA.

One de-construction that had me reaching for my 7" copy every time was Frankie's Relax. I hated all the 12" mixes (and there was a new one every week for about a month) with a passion. They totally screwed up what was already a perfect 7" pop record. I could always work the 7" much better than any of the 12" versions. They were so much up their own ass.

One de-construction that really worked (1982/3)?
Yes - Owner of a Lonely Heart - remove the label, remove any previous knowledge of the band and who'd have guessed this was a bunch of prog rockers? It still overdid things a tad for my taste and wasn't a monster floorfiller for me, but I'd have to give 10/10 for whoever did that 12" mix (was it Trevor Horn too?). It must have had their fans reaching for for the loo.

[paul]

Well, I just received the remixed cd. Graham you are right, the British mix does suck! :evil:
I have to wonder if the guys that do these mix jobs really like the songs they're working on. This thing was hacked every which way. My mistake was not waiting for your take Graham :o I'll stick to my advice and avoid impulse shopping!
How do you know when you are getting the American version?

[BrunoRepublic]

Originally Posted by paul

How do you know when you are getting the American version?

We are talking about the Talk Talk version, right? The US mix was released in Canada and the USA (obviously) as a 12". It may have been released as a limited-edition UK 12" (I've never seen one, but several of the US mixes of their other songs were put out in this manner). It is not on the "It's My Mix" remix album that was issued in Canada and Italy (it contains the crappy UK mix). The only place I have seen it on CD is on a Canadian 80s compilation... which I'm going to have to go hunt down now. :/

[Bernie]

I have this on a CD called Classic Alternatives 2. It is the US version and clocks in at 6:14 just like on the US 12 inch.