A few topics for discussion = PLEASE comment

[jim]

Rock and roll is an umbrella enclosing many different types of good music. Disco is part of that umbrella and therefore a part of rock and roll.

The greatest rock and roll band in the world are the Rolling Stones.

The greatest (non disco) rock and roll track/single is Stairway to Heaven by Led Zeppelin.

Eminem has almost single handedly killed hip hop as a true art form.

Nirvanna’s “Smells like Teen Spirit” killed rock and roll.

MTV became irrelevant music wise when they started airing “The Real World”.

Prince is a surefire entrant in the Rock n Roll hall of fame next year. (Next year is his first year of eligibility.) His mid 80s band The Revolution was the most appropriately named group of that time.

Had the Grammys been given out for TRUE artistic merit as opposed to record sales.

In 1982 Grandmaster Flash and THE Furious Five’s “The Message:” would have gotten Record of the Year

In 1983 Prince’s “1999” would have gotten Album of the Year OVER Michael Jackson’s Thriller. “Beat It” still would have gotten record of the year..

In 1986 Run DMC’s “Walk This Way” which almost single handedly integrated hip hop , would have gotten “Record of the Year”


What's wrong with the music industry today is that good songs are far and few in between. It's more product now. It's a business now and not art. It's not fun anymore. They hardly even have singles anymore expecting folks to spend $18 on a CD that may have one or two good tunes. Radio is even worse. There's mainstream top 40,dance top 40,rap top 40,adult top 40,teen top 40,rock top 40,urban top 40,and noone plays anything from anyone else. What ever happened to just plain Top 40? The only video channel that's any good now is probably VH-1 Classic.

Pop music ceased to be “fun” in the early 90s. The Spice Girls was one of the first real “fun” acts in some time. Their first two albums kicked ass (for pop). Their third disc sucked.

[BrunoRepublic]

Originally Posted by jim

Rock and roll is an umbrella enclosing many different types of good music. Disco is part of that umbrella and therefore a part of rock and roll.

Disagree. R&B is the "umbrella".

The greatest rock and roll band in the world are the Rolling Stones.

The Rolling Stones are the greatest example of how Rock has gone from being anti-establishment to embracing and becoming the establishment. They are now as corporate as a bunch of Exxon executives.

The greatest (non disco) rock and roll track/single is Stairway to Heaven by Led Zeppelin.

Disagree. I think this has got to be the most overrated song of all time. Besides, it was never really a single.

Eminem has almost single handedly killed hip hop as a true art form.

Disagree. The death of hip-hop as a serious art form began years ago when the political message in hip-hop was removed, and replaced with messages glorifying violence, misogyny, and encouraging its listeners to destroy their lives. Eminem is just the latest step in the same direction.

Nirvanna’s “Smells like Teen Spirit” killed rock and roll.

Disagree. Rock was already long dead.

MTV became irrelevant music wise when they started airing “The Real World”.

I don't think MTV was ever relevant music-wise.

Prince is a surefire entrant in the Rock n Roll hall of fame next year. (Next year is his first year of eligibility.) His mid 80s band The Revolution was the most appropriately named group of that time.

Awards only exist to serve the institutions that give them out. They have no real meaning.

Had the Grammys been given out for TRUE artistic merit as opposed to record sales....

See above

What's wrong with the music industry today is that good songs are far and few in between. It's more product now. It's a business now and not art. It's not fun anymore. They hardly even have singles anymore expecting folks to spend $18 on a CD that may have one or two good tunes. Radio is even worse. There's mainstream top 40,dance top 40,rap top 40,adult top 40,teen top 40,rock top 40,urban top 40,and noone plays anything from anyone else. What ever happened to just plain Top 40? The only video channel that's any good now is probably VH-1 Classic.

I agree with some of this. In North America, almost all the media outlets have been bought up by a handful of corporations (Clear Channel in the USA, Rogers in Canada). While the music business has always been just that -- a business -- all the outlets are controlled by the same people. The same playlists and strict formats are maintained from coast to coast. There is no way for any new players to bring new ideas to the table. If it's not signed to the Big Five, it will never be heard. People cannot buy what they don't know exists. There are more radio stations today than ever before, yet the actual choices are fewer in number than they have been in years.

Pop music ceased to be “fun” in the early 90s. The Spice Girls was one of the first real “fun” acts in some time. Their first two albums kicked ass (for pop). Their third disc sucked.

I would say that all of their albums sucked. The Spice Girls marked the point at which pop music became pure product, style not substance, driven strictly by formulas, and created based on perceived target market.

[jim]

[quote="Graham Start"]

Originally Posted by jim

Rock and roll is an umbrella enclosing many different types of good music. Disco is part of that umbrella and therefore a part of rock and roll.
Disagree. R&B is the "umbrella".

OK so RnB ihas been around longer then Rock. Maybe Rock is part of the RnB umbrella as well. Disco and Rock are closer then most folks are willing to admit.

The greatest rock and roll band in the world are the Rolling Stones.


The Rolling Stones are the greatest example of how Rock has gone from being anti-establishment to embracing and becoming the establishment. They are now as corporate as a bunch of Exxon executives.

OK so there hasn't been much from them lately.

The greatest (non disco) rock and roll track/single is Stairway to Heaven by Led Zeppelin.
Disagree. I think this has got to be the most overrated song of all time. Besides, it was never really a single.

Just a metter of opinion. I LOVE that track.

What's wrong with the music industry today is that good songs are far and few in between. It's more product now. It's a business now and not art. It's not fun anymore. They hardly even have singles anymore expecting folks to spend $18 on a CD that may have one or two good tunes. Radio is even worse. There's mainstream top 40,dance top 40,rap top 40,adult top 40,teen top 40,rock top 40,urban top 40,and noone plays anything from anyone else. What ever happened to just plain Top 40? The only video channel that's any good now is probably VH-1 Classic.


I agree with some of this. In North America, almost all the media outlets have been bought up by a handful of corporations (Clear Channel in the USA, Rogers in Canada). While the music business has always been just that -- a business -- all the outlets are controlled by the same people. The same playlists and strict formats are maintained from coast to coast. There is no way for any new players to bring new ideas to the table. If it's not signed to the Big Five, it will never be heard. People cannot buy what they don't know exists. There are more radio stations today than ever before, yet the actual choices are fewer in number than they have been in years.

This is true,and it really sucks. Even if you were to have a Top 40 station that played EVERYTHING on the top 40 of Billboard's Hot 100 (which is what I WOULD do) it would be good at first then someone would buy it out and ruin it.
Two tracks othat should have been #1 singles were that Eliv s remix and perhaps the Ketchup song.

Pop music ceased to be “fun” in the early 90s. The Spice Girls was one of the first real “fun” acts in some time. Their first two albums kicked ass (for pop). Their third disc sucked.

I would say that all of their albums sucked. The Spice Girls marked the point at which pop music became pure product, style not substance, driven strictly by formulas, and created based on perceived target market.

That was already starting to happen. Wannabe was just a catchy single and other tracks from their first two albums were just as poppy.

[Outsider]

Originally Posted by jim

Rock and roll is an umbrella enclosing many different types of good music. Disco is part of that umbrella and therefore a part of rock and roll.

I have to agree with you on this.

The greatest rock and roll band in the world are the Rolling Stones.

They certainly are one of the greatest. I know people who would say the Beatles are, but it's just a matter of opinion. But do you mean the greatest among active bands or bands of all-time?

The greatest (non disco) rock and roll track/single is Stairway to Heaven by Led Zeppelin.

This is one of my least favorite Led Zeppelin songs (and I am a fan), but again, it's just a matter of opinion.

Eminem has almost single handedly killed hip hop as a true art form.

Hip-hop was never an art form in my opinion. It's just people talking really fast to an electronic beat. To me that's not art.

Nirvanna’s “Smells like Teen Spirit” killed rock and roll.

I totally disagree with you one this. While this isn't my favorite Nirvana song (and I'm a big Nirvana fan), I think they saved rock and roll.

MTV became irrelevant music wise when they started airing “The Real World”.

I never cared about MTV in the first place.

Prince is a surefire entrant in the Rock n Roll hall of fame next year. (Next year is his first year of eligibility.) His mid 80s band The Revolution was the most appropriately named group of that time.

I've never been a Prince fan.

Had the Grammys been given out for TRUE artistic merit as opposed to record sales.

I won't argue with this.

In 1982 Grandmaster Flash and THE Furious Five’s “The Message:” would have gotten Record of the Year

See my comment on hip-hop above. But I would rather hear these guys than the likes of Eminem and Snoop Dogg. To me gangsta rap is the worst kind.

In 1983 Prince’s “1999” would have gotten Album of the Year OVER Michael Jackson’s Thriller. “Beat It” still would have gotten record of the year..

No comment.

In 1986 Run DMC’s “Walk This Way” which almost single handedly integrated hip hop , would have gotten “Record of the Year”

Would Aerosmith have also gotten a Grammy?

What's wrong with the music industry today is that good songs are far and few in between.

That's a matter of, well, you know.

It's more product now. It's a business now and not art. It's not fun anymore. They hardly even have singles anymore expecting folks to spend $18 on a CD that may have one or two good tunes.

Yeah, I suppose. But there is a whole world of music that's outside the mainstream, and that's probably the place to look. It's worked for me.

Radio is even worse. There's mainstream top 40,dance top 40,rap top 40,adult top 40,teen top 40,rock top 40,urban top 40,and noone plays anything from anyone else.

Yeah, I agree that radio sucks for the most part.

What ever happened to just plain Top 40?

Good question. There were some really good Top-40 stations back in the 70s, but those days are long gone.

The only video channel that's any good now is probably VH-1 Classic.

Sorry, I can't give an opinion on this.

Pop music ceased to be “fun” in the early 90s.

I like a handful of pop acts, so I disagree with this to a certain extent. However, it's not a genre that I embrace as a whole. I don't care for most of it.

The Spice Girls was one of the first real “fun” acts in some time.

I love the Spice Girls.

Their first two albums kicked ass (for pop).

I definitely agree with you. I think that "Spice" and "Spiceworld" are great albums, especially the latter since it contains "Never Give Up On The Good Times" (which happens to be a straight-out disco song), which is my favorite song of theirs.

Their third disc sucked.

I was disappointed with "Forever" as well. I don't think it was because of the absence of Geri Halliwell, but rather the songs being not as interesting as those on their previous albums. They seemed to have lost the charm by then. :evil:

[NickNack]

Originally Posted by jim

Rock and roll is an umbrella enclosing many different types of good music. Disco is part of that umbrella and therefore a part of rock and roll.

I won't/can't comment on the bulk of your thread as I'm not a true rock fan. But this one opinion, I think most agree that the roots-of-rock stem from rhythm & blues. I'll side with Graham. (I bet The Stones would too. :D )

[QUINNY]

Guys, move to the UK where radio is blooming at the moment. I'm truly amazed by the choice we now have here and many of them are downloadable via the internet, so really there's little excuse not to tune in and turn on.
Between Radio 6, 1Xtra, Radio 4, Radio 3, Radio 2 and Radio 1, the BBC caters for a whole lotta diverse tastes. Add Solar Radio, Jazz FM (and a few others I've yet to discover that must be out there) and you have almost everything covered.
Is it really as bad as you make it out to be in the U.S.?

[tehuti]

Originally Posted by QUINNY

Is it really as bad as you make it out to be in the U.S.?

I'd say it's probably worse than what was previously described. I moved from New York in 1983 where radio was still pretty good, to the San Francisco area. It was okay there but marginal. In 1984 I relocated to the L.A. area where KROQ-FM dominated. It was the New Wave and cutting edge station for most of the 80s.

Basically since Nirvana came on the scene I have not listened to music radio much. L.A. is considered a media capital, but they have the worst radio stations I've ever had to endure. With conglomerates buying everything up it's really bad now. The only music stations I listen to are classic rock and blues/jazz. Everything else here is pretty lame.

[markydefad]

Wow, Tehuti you told the truth.

I moved from SF to LA in 1984 at the height of KROQ's New Wave dominance. I listened religiously.

When Nirvana came on the scene in the early 1990's--everything changed.

KROQ went GRUNGE. Power 106 dropped the dance format and went totally Hip Hop/Rap. KISS embraced the teeny-bopper boy band crowd....AND I STARTED LISTENING TO MY TAPES.

For a brief period there was a Triple A (Adult Album Alternative) station that played more adult oriented rock...but that bit the dust.

Now it's STAR occasionally...(home of Miss Ryan Seacrest) for the non-Limp Bizket rock hits of the day, maybe Howard Stern in the morning to hear them gossip...and that's it.

The new Party Station (dance music) in town is pretty boring...I just pop in a tape and relive the "glory years".

I listened to Madleen Kane ("Forbidden Love") & Metropolis (The Greatest Show On Earth") on the way to work this morning.

[Nano]

Well, I certainly wouldn't turn on the radio to discover new music. Radio is great sometimes, but its music selection tends to be "more of the same"... more of the same "sure things" label executives think are going to sell.
If looking for new dance music, I'd go to a dance place. For new rock music, to a small record shop or a friend's house. Now you have even the Internet, with Kazaa and all. No matter if you have too many unknown options... just pick up any, for its name or whatever, and surely you'll find something in a while. Just like in the old days, when we picked a nice cover or a strange title and asked the guy in the record shop "what's this?"
There's a lot of good new music nowadays. But radio does not have it, no sir.

[Outsider]

I haven't listened to KROQ in years (I'm glad they switched to alternative rock). It's not that I hate the music they play (I certainly don't). I just haven't bothered to tune in. As I'm sure I've stated before, I don't listen to the radio that often, except for KBIG's Saturday Night disco show and occasionally Arrow 93 (a classic rock station). It sucks that R&B oldies station Mega 92.3 went off the air (that was about two years ago). What Los Angeles needs is a hard rock station again. But no underground metal band will ever get radio airplay.

I seem to be the only person here who likes Nirvana. :evil:

[zeca azevedo]

Let's discuss your topics:

"Rock and roll is an umbrella enclosing many different types of good music. Disco is part of that umbrella and therefore a part of rock and roll." TRUE

"The greatest rock and roll band in the world are the Rolling Stones." DEFINITELY TRUE!

The greatest (non disco) rock and roll track/single is Stairway to Heaven by Led Zeppelin. NO.

"Eminem has almost single handedly killed hip hop as a true art form." NO, when EMINEM appeared HIP-HOP was already commercial and empty.

"Nirvanna'sSmells like Teen Spirit killed rock and roll." NO. ROCK is not dead yet. KURT COBAIN just killed himself.

"MTV became irrelevant music wise when they started airing The Real World." NO. MTV was always irrelevant.

"Prince is a surefire entrant in the Rock n Roll hall of fame next year. (Next year is his first year of eligibility.)" YES.
"His mid 80s band The Revolution was the most appropriately named group of that time." NO.

"Had the Grammys been given out for TRUE artistic merit as opposed to record sales." Yeah, right...

"In 1982 Grandmaster Flash and THE Furious Five's The Message would have gotten Record of the Year" Hey, what about SEXUAL HEALING by you know who???

"In 1983 Prince's 1999 would have gotten Album of the Year OVER Michael Jackson's Thriller." Who really cares? None of the albums are the best of these 2 artists

"Beat It still would have gotten record of the year.." For me, the winner is BURNING DOWN THE HOUSE by TALKING HEADS!

"In 1986 Run DMC's Walk This Way which almost single handedly integrated hip hop , would have gotten Record of the Year That's OK with me, but why you forgot to mention AEROSMITH? They wrote the song and recorded it first, eh?

Peace,

zeca azevedo, just a sentimental fella[/b]