No more Free Music for the freeloaders.

[Blaxman]

On 2002-07-15 06:51, DJ Phil wrote:

...So don't blame the Record Company, the blame resides with the artist and thier counsel.

Oh Yeah, the Record Company was just doing its job, stealing the artist!

Peace :roll:

P.S.
Quite fair, blaming the victm..... tsk, tsk, tsk.

_________________
SENHORES DO GROOVE - BRAZIL

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Blaxman on 2002-07-15 08:13 ]</font>

[DJ P]

Blaxman, Yes place the blame where it belongs. If one cannot control and protect assets, one will lose them. If one cannot reseach, investigate and question things that person is bound to get taken. Sad for the artist has to 'Live and Learn'. I inquire daily regarding my funds. I want to see what is going where and why. This way my money will BE THERE. And if the artist doesn't take the time to have contracts reviewed and looked over by a second party...what they get is what they get. This is when they will 'Live (through the bad part of losing profits) and Learn (to read, ask questions, protect funds, and make sure it never happens again). Everyone shares the blame. And shame on all the people that still steal with download the 'free songs'. Go see the artist IN PERSON, join a FAN CLUB and stop stealing the music. If you want to hear it- buy it or turn on your radio!

[Blaxman]

On 2002-07-16 08:01, DJ Phil wrote:
Blaxman, Yes place the blame where it belongs. If one cannot control and protect assets, one will lose them. If one cannot reseach, investigate and question things that person is bound to get taken. Sad for the artist has to 'Live and Learn'. I inquire daily regarding my funds. I want to see what is going where and why. This way my money will BE THERE. And if the artist doesn't take the time to have contracts reviewed and looked over by a second party...what they get is what they get. This is when they will 'Live (through the bad part of losing profits) and Learn (to read, ask questions, protect funds, and make sure it never happens again). Everyone shares the blame. And shame on all the people that still steal with download the 'free songs'. Go see the artist IN PERSON, join a FAN CLUB and stop stealing the music. If you want to hear it- buy it or turn on your radio!

I cant believe!!! You dont see ANYthing wrong with the abuse of the Record Companies over the artists!!! It's all "the artists" fault??? The artist is guilty even for the company bad acts!!! Why???? For had been ingenuous!!! :???:

Wait a minute buddy, you cant punish the people, taking out their rights, for their ingenuousness!!! No way!!!
What is this??? If somebody is ingenuous, you are free to do make a devilsh contract with.
NOPE.

About the download question:

Downloaders and "to-my-friend-recorders" are the same before the law!! Leave the hypocrisy at the door!!

Look, I'm dont like the word "thieve", but did you bring it to discussion several times, so let me use it for one more time:

If somebody steal several Banks (downloaders), that somebody is a thieve??
YES!

If somebody steal just one Bank (to-my-friend-recorders), that somebody is a thieve too???
YES, too!!

The both things are illegal, all of us knows that!

We need discuss this laws, and we are doin this here, remake this laws (not to free the downloads at will)but to do that issue more fair to all sides, artists, companies, public and fans. But in order to make this "mission" clear and fair we have to know WHO IS WHO. Forget about the good, the bad ,the ugly!!

Peace

_________________
SENHORES DO GROOVE - BRAZIL


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Blaxman on 2002-07-16 08:52 ]</font>

[Funky Dude]

And shame on all the people that still steal with download the 'free songs'.

What about the really rare disco? If it weren't for file sharing I wouldn't know half the really rare disco songs I've discovered by downloading on MP3. If these record companies really force us to buy the records, then they should throw in websites with 30 second sound samples of every damn song under their label so we know what to buy and what not to buy depending on our taste.

Go see the artist IN PERSON

I'd have to jump on a plane and fly to USA, try and track down the artists and hope to god the bouncers/butlers would let me in.

join a FAN CLUB and stop stealing the music.

The fan clubs are usually for the most popular disco artists who had many hits, not the really rare disco groups.

If you want to hear it- buy it or turn on your radio!

The stuff I want is usually out of my reach seeing that I live in Australia. CD shops mainly sell modern teenage mainstream crap or disco compilations of the belted disco songs like "Stayin' Alive", "I Will Survive" etc... When I go to record shops there's mainly rock rock rock and not much disco, and at the Salvation Army there's usually old farts music, I have to rely on pot luck to get good disco/funk records and yes I've got a number of good ones over the past 4 years. For the really rare stuff I have to order from USA which means sending a cheque to USA (takes 2 weeks) and waiting for the record/CD to arrive to me (another 2 weeks). Plus I pay extra costs for shipping, I'm not a rich man. The worse bit is ordering a record not knowing what it sounds like and after waiting 4 weeks you get bitterly disappointed to find out that the songs are not what you wanted to listen to.

As for listening to radio you've got to be joking. Australian retro stations play the same old MAINSTREAM disco songs like "Stayin' Alive", "I Will Survive", "Hot Stuff", "YMCA", "That's The Way I Like It". We don't even have ANY rare underground disco stations at all. Radio sucks in Australia.


I reckon the best method that will make everybody happy is to have websites with sound samples of every damn record ever recorded and thrown into categories. Looking at disco there should be sound samples for every disco record so people know what they are like and the details of the record should be shown so people know what to buy. A great example of sound sample websites is funk45.com at http://www.funk45.com . That site has sound samples submitted by visitors to over 2000 of the rarest funk 45's on earth. The rules are that the sound samples have to be from the 45s (no CD rips) and the record details must be submitted and the sound sample has to be no more than 1 minute.

People should make more of these sites so visitors can listen and try and track down the record/CD/cassette/8 track etc... and buy it.

If this sort of thing can be done then it will relieve everybody of their frustration in getting the music they want.

Just one last thing, when I download MP3s, 90% of the time I'm downloading rare disco MP3s, music that Australian slack-arse retro radio stations never bother to play.

[jazz_pilgrim]

On 2002-07-15 07:04, jazz_pilgrim wrote:



[DJ Phil] Do you work for a record company?

Just curious, that's all ...

Any answer ??

[Outsider]

I agree with what Funky Dude said, but I want to add my own commentary on this - yet again:

On 2002-07-16 08:01, DJ Phil wrote:
And shame on all the people that still steal with download the 'free songs'.

But much of the time downloading sound files in the only way to hear certain artists. And if I like what I hear, I would buy albums from those artists.

Go see the artist IN PERSON,

Well, that's not always possible. There are artists I like who won't be performing in my city any time soon, and others who won't be performing here at all. And then there are those who have disbanded, are no longer active in music, or dead.

join a FAN CLUB

I've never been into that. Besides, some of my favorite artists don't have fan clubs.

and stop stealing the music.

I wouldn't call it stealing. It's more like checking out songs to see it you like what you hear, then buying the albums from those artists. I won't buy any albums if I haven't heard any of the songs that are on them. Sound files are a pretty good promotional tool. At least that's my opinion.

If you want to hear it- buy it

Another point I want to make (albeit for the zillionth time) is that I can't always afford to buy all the albums I want. Besides, there's no rush to buy anything, so if it ends up being like two years from now (or whenever the hell I can save enough money) when I buy a particular album, then so be it.

or turn on your radio!

Well, there are lots of artists I like who don't get any radio airplay, especially the obscure ones. So that doesn't always work out.

[Blaxman]

Outsider and Funky Dude,

You are perfect, I agree 100 % with both of you!!

Peace

P.S.
Intriguing questions:

1) How could a dead artist to do a "live show"? :lol:

2) Listen "disco" on the radio? Are you kidding??
_________________
SENHORES DO GROOVE - BRAZIL


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Blaxman on 2002-07-16 11:49 ]</font>

[Rab]

Norway and Sweden are the only 2 countries on Earth that have a higher standard of living than the United States. They offer free national healthcare, you can receive a bachelors degree for free and they have free daycare for all those breeders. Yes, they have Socialist governments which work quite efficiently. However, music is not free in Scandanavia.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rab on 2002-07-16 21:09 ]</font>

[DeepBeat]

Anyone ever wondered why artists sign with record companies and writers sign with publishing companies? It's a business decision they chose to make to get their work released, promoted, protected and exploited. In short they sign because they want to make money and have someone else do all the dirty work while they are busy being artistic.

So, if someone makes a lousy business move (like George Clinton has done in many occasions) it doesn't mean it shouldn't cost him just because he is a music icon.

Having said that, I also want to say that music distribution cannot be controlled with today's technology and I'm kind of happy with that. No US legislation can prevent downloading music from a site located in some other country. The record companies can make all the fuss they want but all they really care about is not getting their share.

BMG has Napster now...AOL merged with Time/Warner...They are trying to find the means to control the new technology distribution channels. They are in panic. This is really fun to watch because the majors have destroyed music and now they pay the price. There aren't any groundbreaking new artists signed to majors. They usually get signed to an independent label and by the time the majors wake up all they can do is buy out the independent. They are no true A&R people anymore. Only money making oriented technocrats.

I, myself, could never be happy with just downloading a track. I want to smell the sleeve, read the liner notes, admire the artwork. But tomorrows consumers won't be like that...However, I'm very optimistic because music will always be made and I'd rather see new artists set up their own sites and give out their music for free than waste my time with the garbage majors serve me trying desperately to find something that is worth listening.

By the way, I LOVE MUSIC and it's really interesting to see how things will turn out after the digital revolution settles.

[Blaxman]

On 2002-07-17 04:25, DeepBeat wrote:

I, myself, could never be happy with just downloading a track. I want to smell the sleeve, read the liner notes, admire the artwork. But tomorrows consumers won't be like that...However, I'm very optimistic because music will always be made and I'd rather see new artists set up their own sites and give out their music for free than waste my time with the garbage majors serve me trying desperately to find something that is worth listening.

By the way, I LOVE MUSIC and it's really interesting to see how things will turn out after the digital revolution settles.

Let me share with you this opinion Deepbeat,
you was very clear and I liked that! I'm a music lover too! I'm do not satisfied just downloading a song (generally with bad sound), I like the cover art, the pics, the smell, etc. Saddly, in most cases this stuff is not available, so......

BTW: I do only disagree about Mr. Clinton case. He was cheated! No one deserves it! It was not fair.

Peace

[Blaxman]

On 2002-07-16 21:07, Rab wrote:
Norway and Sweden are the only 2 countries on Earth that have a higher standard of living than the United States. They offer free national healthcare, you can receive a bachelors degree for free and they have free daycare for all those breeders. Yes, they have Socialist governments which work quite efficiently. However, music is not free in Scandanavia.

So what?? We must conclude........ :???:

[DJ P]

On 2002-07-16 08:48, Blaxman wrote:

On 2002-07-16 08:01, DJ Phil wrote:
Blaxman, Yes place the blame where it belongs. If one cannot control and protect assets, one will lose them. If one cannot reseach, investigate and question things that person is bound to get taken. Sad for the artist has to 'Live and Learn'. I inquire daily regarding my funds. I want to see what is going where and why. This way my money will BE THERE. And if the artist doesn't take the time to have contracts reviewed and looked over by a second party...what they get is what they get. This is when they will 'Live (through the bad part of losing profits) and Learn (to read, ask questions, protect funds, and make sure it never happens again). Everyone shares the blame. And shame on all the people that still steal with download the 'free songs'. Go see the artist IN PERSON, join a FAN CLUB and stop stealing the music. If you want to hear it- buy it or turn on your radio!

I cant believe!!! You dont see ANYthing wrong with the abuse of the Record Companies over the artists!!! It's all "the artists" fault??? The artist is guilty even for the company bad acts!!! Why???? For had been ingenuous!!! :???:

Wait a minute buddy, you cant punish the people, taking out their rights, for their ingenuousness!!! No way!!!
What is this??? If somebody is ingenuous, you are free to do make a devilsh contract with.
NOPE.

About the download question:

Downloaders and "to-my-friend-recorders" are the same before the law!! Leave the hypocrisy at the door!!

Look, I'm dont like the word "thieve", but did you bring it to discussion several times, so let me use it for one more time:

If somebody steal several Banks (downloaders), that somebody is a thieve??
YES!

If somebody steal just one Bank (to-my-friend-recorders), that somebody is a thieve too???
YES, too!!

The both things are illegal, all of us knows that!

We need discuss this laws, and we are doin this here, remake this laws (not to free the downloads at will)but to do that issue more fair to all sides, artists, companies, public and fans. But in order to make this "mission" clear and fair we have to know WHO IS WHO. Forget about the good, the bad ,the ugly!!

Peace

_________________
SENHORES DO GROOVE - BRAZIL


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Blaxman on 2002-07-16 08:52 ]</font>

Blaxman, DJ to DJ (we always traded the 'pro copies given to the dj's from the record labels' from 'Jock to Jock' at the record pool. I might had recieved some 'trash Funk' that would never be played at my club, where another dj would appreciate that extra copy for his/her's club. We traded tapes (gee of the free 'pro copies' GIVEN TO US BY THE RECORD LABELS) to show off our mixing abilities and to also sharpen them. Umm...Record company supplied music, duplicated to fellow working dj's, played in Disco's that pay licensing fee to the labels/artists vs THOUSANDS OF ILLEGAL DOWNLOADS, CD'S/MP3'S 'BURNED FROM THE DOWNLOADS, ARTIST GETS RIPPED OFF-RECEIVES NOTHING, RECORD LABEL GETS RIPPED OFF-RECEIVES NOTHING...Youth in the future starts to wonder why the music costs so much, tells youths in future 'it's because Mommie and Daddie downloaded so much stolen music in the '00's' the Artist/labels are having to make up for lost income. Youth asks parents for $75.00 to buy the lastest NYSNC Senior cd. In other words, BUY THE MUSIC as I don't want to have to pay for all the thieves on the 'WWW'. PS (to Blaxman)No I don't work for any record/cd label.

[Blaxman]

On 2002-07-17 10:52, DJ Phil wrote:

Blaxman, DJ to DJ (we always traded the 'pro copies given to the dj's from the record labels' from 'Jock to Jock' at the record pool. I might had recieved some 'trash Funk' that would never be played at my club, where another dj would appreciate that extra copy for his/her's club. We traded tapes (gee of the free 'pro copies' GIVEN TO US BY THE RECORD LABELS) to show off our mixing abilities and to also sharpen them. Umm...Record company supplied music, duplicated to fellow working dj's, played in Disco's that pay licensing fee to the labels/artists vs THOUSANDS OF ILLEGAL DOWNLOADS, CD'S/MP3'S 'BURNED FROM THE DOWNLOADS, ARTIST GETS RIPPED OFF-RECEIVES NOTHING, RECORD LABEL GETS RIPPED OFF-RECEIVES NOTHING...Youth in the future starts to wonder why the music costs so much, tells youths in future 'it's because Mommie and Daddie downloaded so much stolen music in the '00's' the Artist/labels are having to make up for lost income. Youth asks parents for $75.00 to buy the lastest NYSNC Senior cd. In other words, BUY THE MUSIC as I don't want to have to pay for all the thieves on the 'WWW'. PS (to Blaxman)No I don't work for any record/cd label.

Dj Phil,

I think you are repeating yourself...again.

Again I'll say: I'm not defending free downloads at will, but an agreement, an ajustment on the law in order to make the catalogs of the Record Labels acessable to all. With or without pay, whatever!!
I think you think the same (or almost), right?

Keeping on:

When you say - George Clinton was incompetent to make a good contract to protect his rights.....too bad for him!!

Somebody can say - Record Labels was incompetents to make enough releases from their catalogs and protect their rights, so....too bad for them!!!

The both are wrong, dont you think?

More:

The CD or LP's was always expensives, ages before the downloads begin!!! Geez!! How old are you? I use to buy records since 1976, they are too expensive at that time already!! Believe me!!! I was there in person!
Remember, Record Labels spend too much money doing crappy video clips, paying for airplay space, paying for space travels to their "artists" and many others dumb moves. And you have the courage to say that "Mommie and daddy" foolish!

Just for relax:

75 bucks for a N'Stink CD!?!?!?!?!?
My son is not crazy, he nor even will download it for free!! :lol:

Peace

P.S.
Wasnt me who ask you about your job.
BTW: If I earn my records for free, straight from the Labels I would denfend them untill I die. Any offer? :lol:

_________________
SENHORES DO GROOVE - BRAZIL


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Blaxman on 2002-07-17 11:32 ]</font>

[nrgbeat]

DJ Phil ,I agree with you to a point, but it's not always easy to go out and buy a song as you state.

Many times songs are not made available to the general public but are only available on dj promos. If a song is made available to the general public, it doesn't always solve the problem because often times the 12" mix is not on the cd, but only on vinyl or the 12" version is only available on an expensive import cd.

As far as older songs, good luck trying to find them unless you live in New York City, LA, San Francisco or some other large city where there are a lot of dance music enthusiasts. I could use Ebay, but most of the time I am outbid. I could use mail order, but shipping is expensive.

Keep on downloading folks maybe the record companies will get the picture.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: nrgbeat on 2002-07-17 11:44 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: nrgbeat on 2002-07-17 11:47 ]</font>

[DJ P]

On 2002-07-17 11:27, Blaxman wrote:

On 2002-07-17 10:52, DJ Phil wrote:

Blaxman, DJ to DJ (we always traded the 'pro copies given to the dj's from the record labels' from 'Jock to Jock' at the record pool. I might had recieved some 'trash Funk' that would never be played at my club, where another dj would appreciate that extra copy for his/her's club. We traded tapes (gee of the free 'pro copies' GIVEN TO US BY THE RECORD LABELS) to show off our mixing abilities and to also sharpen them. Umm...Record company supplied music, duplicated to fellow working dj's, played in Disco's that pay licensing fee to the labels/artists vs THOUSANDS OF ILLEGAL DOWNLOADS, CD'S/MP3'S 'BURNED FROM THE DOWNLOADS, ARTIST GETS RIPPED OFF-RECEIVES NOTHING, RECORD LABEL GETS RIPPED OFF-RECEIVES NOTHING...Youth in the future starts to wonder why the music costs so much, tells youths in future 'it's because Mommie and Daddie downloaded so much stolen music in the '00's' the Artist/labels are having to make up for lost income. Youth asks parents for $75.00 to buy the lastest NYSNC Senior cd. In other words, BUY THE MUSIC as I don't want to have to pay for all the thieves on the 'WWW'. PS (to Blaxman)No I don't work for any record/cd label.

Dj Phil,

I think you are repeating yourself...again.

Again I'll say: I'm not defending free downloads at will, but an agreement, an ajustment on the law in order to make the catalogs of the Record Labels acessable to all. With or without pay, whatever!!
I think you think the same (or almost), right?

Keeping on:

When you say - George Clinton was incompetent to make a good contract to protect his rights.....too bad for him!!

Somebody can say - Record Labels was incompetents to make enough releases from their catalogs and protect their rights, so....too bad for them!!!

The both are wrong, dont you think?

More:

The CD or LP's was always expensives, ages before the downloads begin!!! Geez!! How old are you? I use to buy records since 1976, they are too expensive at that time already!! Believe me!!! I was there in person!
Remember, Record Labels spend too much money doing crappy video clips, paying for airplay space, paying for space travels to their "artists" and many others dumb moves. And you have the courage to say that "Mommie and daddy" foolish!

Just for relax:

75 bucks for a N'Stink CD!?!?!?!?!?
My son is not crazy, he nor even will download it for free!! :lol:

Peace :)

P.S.
Wasnt me who ask you about your job.
BTW: If I earn my records for free, straight from the Labels I would denfend them untill I die. Any offer? :lol:

_________________
SENHORES DO GROOVE - BRAZIL


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Blaxman on 2002-07-17 11:32 ]</font>

Blaxman, It seems I will have to 'repeat' myself as long as this topic is on the board. Yes I received 'free/promotional' copies from the labels and the Dj's that were in my 'record pool' (a business that provides free copies to working dj's of record label promotion copies) also traded 'unused/wouldn't be played in my club because of format-Funk, Freestyle, Hi-NRG, Wave, etc.' and tapes of are mixes done with the 'Promotional copies'. If any of us (the dj's that traded the tapes) played a fellow 'dj's mix-tape' it would be the exact music that the record labels sent us to play in our clubs to promote the artists. We played those records (on a mix tape) mixed by one of our co-workers. So since we all had the same music/labels promo copies the mixes that we played (on tape) delt the labels no harm. The artist was promo'ed in the club, the dj heard some new ways of mixing the records supplied by the record labels and the paying crowd enjoyed the mixes. But if the 'I want music for free/I need to download and make a cd' crowd continues, the labels will have to charge more (just like a store to cover the costs/losses through shoplifting) to the honest public when we BUY a cd vs. STEALING it through the 'www'. Later, DJ Phil

[Outsider]

DJ Phil, you still have yet to comment on these downloading issues:

When one can't afford to buy the music

When downloading songs is the only way to hear a particular artist

That people may actually buy the music after downloading it because they like what they hear (go back to point number two on this message)

I would like to hear from you.

[Outsider]

One more downloading issue to comment on:
Downloading songs from record company websites

[Funky Dude]

Outsider wrote:
That people may actually buy the music after downloading it because they like what they hear (go back to point number two on this message)

That's indeed very true. Last year I was looking through lists of rare 1975 12"'s on some website and downloaded the songs listed on Audio Galaxy. One of them was "Hollywood Hot" by Eleventh Hour. I listened to it and thought it was a great funk track. And a couple of months ago I went to Cavions scrapyard (the place where I got those ancient Philips VCRs from) and there was a box of records in one of the rooms and I looked through them and I found Eleventh Hour's "Hollywood Hot" LP and bought it for $3. If it weren't for Audio Galaxy, I would never had discovered this group. The LP was great and had an even longer version of "Hollywood Hot" than the one on Audio Galaxy, plus they did a funky version of Labelle's "Lady Marmalade" too.

Anyhow by all means, if I see the record/CD of what I like, I will buy it even if I have the songs on MP3, it's just that because non-mainstream funk/disco records are harder to come by in Australia, I have to rely on pot luck to get them.

Now I mentioned earlier that sometimes when I order something and it takes 4 weeks and when I finally get it, I get pretty disappointed to find that the songs aren't what I was after. This was the case when I ordered a Best of Bar-Kays CD from Amazon.com, yeah it sounded really good but the songs were 90's remakes of their early stuff. I must say they did a good job at keeping it close to their original style but I was after their original 70's versions of their hits not the 90's remakes.

It's worse with records as there are no sound samples for them advertised and when you order them you just hope that record is a good one.

[Blaxman]

On 2002-07-17 18:13, DJ Phil wrote:

But if the 'I want music for free/I need to download and make a cd' crowd continues, the labels will have to charge more (just like a store to cover the costs/losses through shoplifting) to the honest public when we BUY a cd vs. STEALING it through the 'www'. Later, DJ Phil

With the speech quoted above you could be elected: THE EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH in any Record Label.

All the rest I knew it already, as I said:
You're repeating yourself....again!

When you find the answers to the other questions, please feel free to reply them, OK?

Peace



_________________
SENHORES DO GROOVE - BRAZIL

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Blaxman on 2002-07-18 12:52 ]</font>

[DJ P]

DEAR Blaxman, it seems you are REPEATING yourself (which is a very RUDE way to answer ANY letter be it 'snail mail or internet'. ONE REPEATS THE CONTENT OF THE PRIOR MAILING SO THE RECEIPIENT WILL BE AWARE OF THE SUBJECT MATTER BEING DISCUSSED). So in that vain I shalln't waste anymore of my valuable time conversing with you. Steal the music, steal anything thing you bloodywell please, do cars, jewelry, shoplift in stores- I DON'T CARE TO DISCUSS THIS ISSUE WITH PEOPLE THAT CAN'T REALIZE (Regardless of how 'hard' it is to find the music) that IT IS STEALING? I just hope one day they catch you all!! (Ummm...the lawyers are done with Napster, I wonder if they would like a link to this...)

[nrgbeat]

I would like to say I am sick to death of this whole argument about downloading vs. stealing.

As I mentioned before, if the record companies made disco/dance music on cd available to the masses and not just the professional dj's then I wouldn't be downloading. Believe me the music stores/record companies made plenty of money off of me before I got a computer.

Why don't we agree to disagree on this issue and move on because it is getting really old.

[Blaxman]

On 2002-07-19 05:29, DJ Phil wrote:
DEAR Blaxman, it seems you are REPEATING yourself (which is a very RUDE way to answer ANY letter be it 'snail mail or internet'. ONE REPEATS THE CONTENT OF THE PRIOR MAILING SO THE RECEIPIENT WILL BE AWARE OF THE SUBJECT MATTER BEING DISCUSSED). So in that vain I shalln't waste anymore of my valuable time conversing with you. Steal the music, steal anything thing you bloodywell please, do cars, jewelry, shoplift in stores- I DON'T CARE TO DISCUSS THIS ISSUE WITH PEOPLE THAT CAN'T REALIZE (Regardless of how 'hard' it is to find the music) that IT IS STEALING? I just hope one day they catch you all!! (Ummm...the lawyers are done with Napster, I wonder if they would like a link to this...)

Tsk tsk tsk, dont be rude with me "Cop Phil".
YOU DID RUDE POSTS CALLING OTHER PEOLPLE "THIEVES", NOT ME!!

If you want we can talk about music, despite your preference is clearly for legal issues.

Peace