Spinning disco : strings in dance music

[discolady75]

hi all,
I just find that sometime too much "cheesy" strings can bother the today audience (i mean the young ones used to house and electro sounds).. i try to mix them up with more electronic disco sounds, or hi nrg-like instrumentals. Can u tell me if u feel things this way with your local audience ? thanx..

[Spellbound]

Cheesy string arrangements?

What records are you playing? The mickey mouse disco album?

If the younger audience today cannot accept a quality arrangement and recognize the hard work behind the producers and musicians efforts well then **** THEM.

I am younger myself and I absolutely cannot stand the attitudes of many of the generation x and generation y generations

If the majority of them only knew how many hip hop and house artists have stolen from the past then maybe their attitudes would be different

The problem today is anybody with a computer can produce a dance or hip hop track

99.9% of these kids today would not be able to produce an ORIGINAL quality track back in the day

They would be too stressed and would **** on themselves and ultimately give up

Much respect should be given to all of the singers, producers, orchestras and live musicians from back in the days.

[Videoskooter]

Strings are definitely OK over here. I like 'em and the public likes 'em too! Maybe the very young ones are a little bit reluctant but they just have to learn and appreciate :lol:

And, we carefully keep out the Trance and Techno youth. We will not surrender to that!

[markydefad]

Listen to Biddu Orchestra. Now them's "cheesy strings"!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Poor Biddu's songs from 1975 haven't aged very well. :roll:

I'm referring to:

Summer Of '42
I Could Have Danced All Night
Jump For Joy
Exodus

Blue Eyed Soul sounds a little better than those, however.

I just spent the weekend listening to and bpm-ing the top 100 of 1975 and these have not passed the test of time, IMHO.

[paul]

I just spent the weekend listening to and bpm-ing the top 100 of 1975 and these have not passed the test of time, IMHO.

Interesting Marky. Any songs standout as major disappointments?

[JussiK]

Don't know if Lalo Schifrin's ESCAPE FROM TOMORROW ever reached any top 100s but one thing is certain - the strings in that particular piece of music made in 1975 haven't aged a second - they are positively futuristic as is the whole thing, in a timeless action movie soundtrack way that is. And hipper kids of course love that sound.

[QUINNY]

A lot of 1975 wasn't even happening music to a whole shed full of folks back in 1975! Much of that string laden musak was bypassed in favour of more earthy sounds.

Soooo, nothing's really changed. Discolady, you'll just have to accept that your crowd is not into cheesy disco and trawl around for the more sparse, funky sounds of the period going into the early '80s. Personally, I feel that the stripped down disco sounds of late '79 on, were the absolute heyday of the genre and the electrification of the music was its saving grace. Had the music not changed to a more urban, youthful sound, I believe black dance music would have been dead and buried more or less for ever and everything post '86/'87 House wouldn't have happened. Even that may not have reared its omnipresent head.

Start getting into the Solar sounds and the like.

[QUINNY]

Don't know if Lalo Schifrin's ESCAPE FROM TOMORROW ever reached any top 100s but one thing is certain - the strings in that particular piece of music made in 1975 haven't aged a second - they are positively futuristic as is the whole thing, in a timeless action movie soundtrack way that is. And hipper kids of course love that sound.

In the same way that Miroslav Vitous - New York City hasn't aged? :-? Sure it has a very modern sounding rhythm track (could have been made yesterday), but it is sooooo 1976 it's not true (and I still HATE the horrible chicks' singing with corny echo FX).

I think people either have to accept the 'oldness' and fully embrace it, or they should jump ship to something that does satisfy them. The opening bars of say Donald Byrd - Change Makes You Want To Hustle is either going to send you rushing to a dance floor or it's not. You're either gonna say to yourself "what is this joyous, jazzy sound?" or you're gonna say "what's that OLD piece of shite."

Whether or not any music that was, to all intents and purposes underground by nature, should be accepted by a young mainstream audience of today is a vexing question.

[JussiK]

Escape..is more like a dramatic blaxploitation soundtrack theme, and you know ho much wannabe gangstas love those.

[Super D]

Bump to "Quinney" :D ......."Discolady" understand dat' house and dance music is a sophisticated brilliant reworking of yesterdays Disco music. Give "props" to todays Dance, House and Techno Artist and Fans because they not only respect yesterdays music but understand that it is a masterfull reworking of musical identity.....an incredible fragmentation of vocal images.......a relentless push to offer rhythms and harmonies in new relating contexts......an impeccable merging of voices from the past to present.....an edified disruption of myopic musical ideas.......which by the way ALL OF THIS adds to the revival of long forgotten melodies and thrown out breaks to renewed popularity (thus the popularity of "old school")........Dance Fans today unconsciously understand the "old school" substrada and will dynatmite and sift through todays musical teutonics inessential features and clarify the potential to connect their themes to their goal of musical redemption.......in otherwords they understand and will used the past to create the new for them......appropriately give them there stage and feed them what they want...... New, Creative, Fresh beats and rhythms with a seductive hidden underline of the past. .

I'm a fan of sampling, looping, borrowing.
superD(motordetroit) 8)

[markydefad]

Jussik,

I'm trying to get the credits on Escape From Tomorrow--cause it is one of the top Disco records of 1975!!!! :D And the only one I have no info on!!!!

I need:

1) timing
2) b-side title
3) producer
4) composer: I presume Schifrin, right?
5) bpm

I would be ever so grateful. Is this available on any compilation you know of? I'm very crious to hear this.

[Videoskooter]

Give "props" to todays Dance, House and Techno Artist and Fans because they not only respect yesterdays music but understand that it is a masterfull reworking of musical identity.....
I'm a fan of sampling, looping, borrowing.
superD(motordetroit) 8)

Super D, I'm pretty sure that Discolady and I have different opinions on that one. I respect your taste and I'm surely not saying that mine is better but what we try to do is to keep the real underground Disco from the seventies alive. For Dance, House and Technomusic there are already enough venues over here.

What Discolady is trying to do in France and we in Belgium is to create a party for those who are not into the samples, loops and borrowed stuff. People who are yearning for an evening that brings back joyful memories and want to hear the classic stuff.

That's the point we are making here. Of course I can have a great night out in a Houseclub but I can really freak out on an evening where they play nothing but the old grooves. And those beats are very popular here even with younger people coz' some of them have realised that many of the current chartmusic is just a rework from stuff from the haydays.

Quinny, I know your opinion about DJ'ing but please try to understand that we are not aiming for THE big audience. We want to keep it special, cozy and stylish. Sure, a lot of young kids are into 80's stuff and you will attract them with your pick of records but we try to provide a different supper for those who are not into that.

So many people, so many vibes

[Super D]

What Discolady is trying to do in France and we in Belgium is to create a party for those who are not into the samples, loops and borrowed stuff. People who are yearning for an evening that brings back joyful memories and want to hear the classic stuff.
So many people, so many vibes

Very well put "Videoskooter"......and I agree to a point.....however I do believe that DJ's like Detroiters Mike Clark and Allen Ester....as well as visionarys from Paris like Dimitri and Joey Negro combines the brilliants and the roots of Disco and link it to the Club Culture of today to expand its sacred arc. They drank from the roots of sacred Disco ryhthms and their own geneological music tree__ in the process some of the youth today identify with Disco. They might also see that they can remake their style and place their skills in the service of musical transformation. Or ,we may even realize that they(the of youth today) do not have to be Disco lovers to be accepted and affirmed within the Disco claque.


super D(motordetroit) 8)

[discolady75]

Well i couldnt think to get so much answers ! (but why do people are talking about 1975 top 100 ?)

I love strings, the repetitive human based beat, the proeminent hit hat, those sexy voices floating everywhere.

the pb is that the "cheesy" stuff can be everything... i think all is in the manner to mix it. If i put to much stringsfull songs (either with an excellent selection of salsoul classics, Patricks Adams productions,Costandinos, Joe Thomas etc..) which alone are very good quality songs, alltogether for a certain kind of audience, will become "cheesy"..

In fact, they become cheesy if i stay in a low BPM (about 110), if i dont make it more "dynamite", and if i m not concentrated on these.. bumping music (like house, electro) with a heavy sound system is enough. "That's the trouble" as would say Grace Jones. Ears are conditionned with this artificial power.
So violins upon a drum beats sounds strange for them. Maybe it s a Parisian caracteristic ?.. they re all fed with electro and r'n'b...

Super D said :

Discolady, you'll just have to accept that your crowd is not into cheesy disco and trawl around for the more sparse, funky sounds of the period going into the early '80s.

The "solution" i found is to mix more "progressive" disco : electronic keyboards instrumentals, Cowley remixes, sometime fast funk.. with the more stringy ones. And i got to know more of them..
About biddu "Voodoo Man" remains a very good example of electronic disco !

As Videoskooters explains very well,

what we try to do is to keep the real underground Disco from the seventies alive

I really want to stay in the disco spirit

In fact the french audience seems to be hard to satisfy... Anyway, Disco will regain its own legitimity among all those digital-made music. it s a question of time, and big works. I keep believe in DISCO !

[originalbigm]

I love strings, the repetitive human based beat, the proeminent hit hat, those sexy voices floating everywhere.

I'd venture that Bebu Silvetti's 1975 smash Spring Rain falls into this category.It was listed at #41 on the all time DJ 's 700 classic tracks list
http://www.discomusic.com/charts-more/2664_0_8_0_C/

[JussiK]

[quote="markydefad"]Jussik,

I'm trying to get the credits on Escape From Tomorrow--cause it is one of the top Disco records of 1975!!!! :D And the only one I have no info on!!!!

I need:

1) timing
2) b-side title
3) producer
4) composer: I presume Schifrin, right?
5) bpm

I only have this track which is the theme from Planet of the Apes tv series, on a cd comp called MOST WANTED 1968-1979 so got no idea what's on flip - maybe if you try ebay? I did, and found nothing, must be extremely rare as a 7-incher.

The track clocks at 03':02", don't have exact BPM. The record is apparently a more kicking - and kick it does, better believe it! - re-recording made at the time of the tv show was aired, not the actual tune used. On the cd there's also Amityville Frenzy, a discofication of the moody horror tune, again not heard in the film itself. In fact every title is great, get the cd -or maybe there's a double vinyl edition?!!

[usagi-san]

originalbigm, Silvetti's "Spring Rain" charted in 1977. One of the few songs to ever make the Top 40 twice. One of my all time disco faves.

JussiK, you are the master of great disco cheese as usual!

[olskinflint]

You can tell by listening to classic dance records that the producers put a great deal of care, hard work and imagination into string and horn arrangements (Moroder, Morali, Freddie Perren, Gregg Diamond and many others come to mind). When I listen (or TRY to listen) to some of today's music, all I hear are sythesizers and programmed percussion. I often can't sit through a single song without getting bored. I sometimes think I could do as well, and I have no musical talent at all. I'll bet a lot of young people who consider themselves music fans today don't know what a guitar, piano or live drums sound like.

[JussiK]

JussiK, you are the master of great disco cheese as usual!

Thank you most sincerely, that's my contribution to society. But Escape from Tomorrow is definitely not cheesy by any stretch of any imagination. The track is tight, jazzy, hot, fast yet funky, extremaly dramatic yet totally cool. It's by Lalo Schifrin, mate!

[usagi-san]

JussiK, Oh yes, "Escape From Tomorrow" does sound most sophisticated; I'd love to hear it. We did a bit of trading a few years ago, then I lost a letter I wrote to you, found it and lost it again. I'll try to get my act together when I can get time, and maybe we can resume then if you want.

[originalbigm]

originalbigm, Silvetti's "Spring Rain" charted in 1977.

It may have charted in 1977 when it was released as a 12" on the Salsoul Records label but it was actually released in 1975. I along with other club DJ's were playing it back in 1975 when I received it through a record pool as a 7" Made in France import promo on a blue Hispa Vox label which also has some Spanish connection as some of the wording on the labels is Spanish and it does contain the phrase "Enregistre en Espagne".It was distributed by Polydor S.A.

[originalbigm]

http://www.cdandlp.com/item/2/0-1701..._silvetti.html

[Lumin]

this is an interesting discussion
im a young buck (24) and i can only speak from my generations point of view.
to the untrained ear (newjack to disco) strings in disco is what made disco cheesy. i have to admit, when i go dig for disco joints, massive amounts of string arrangements is a major turnoff... well let me say massive amounts of string arrangements in the typical disco "progression" is what makes it a turn off
there are some interesting string arrangements out there that you CANT hate on... but there are a whole lot that suck balls... especially if they are accompanied with cheese vocals

personally, i dig for and spin a lot of deeper, funkier disco.... i guess a recognizable sound would be like early crown heights affair, hudson people, early bt express, rimshots, etc

and if i do a re-edit of a cut, i will usually edit out the strings

aight things are gettin hectic over here... gotta end this
but this is a good discussion

peace

[JussiK]

maybe we can resume then if you want.

any time