Do I Hear An Echo?????

[nrgbeat]

How do dj's create an echo effect when mixing records?

I know they use two copies but how many beats apart do you have to place the second record so you get the echo effect?

[NickNack]

It depends on the phrasing of the song and what type of effect you want. I think you'll find in most instances two beats will give the 'normal' echo effect. However, sometimes you'll want four beats or maybe more, depending how you want to catch the song.

I once watched the awesome Roy Thode take the Temptations' "Shaky Ground" and work it with a one-beat echo. Outrageous! It gave the track a 'frenzied' feeling that it doesn't have but fit so well with the lyrics.

As with everything else... experiment. Two beats is probably the easiest but as you play around with different songs you'll see other patterns will work just as well.

[nrgbeat]

Thanks Nicky.

I heard a mix where they took two copies of "Wanna Be Startin Something" by Michael Jackson and echoed the Mama say, Mama sah part.

[markydefad]

When I worked at Aloha, Steve (The Tauntress) phased 2 copies of "Give It To Me Baby" by Rick James; one record 2 beats behind the other to awesome effect.

That was the first time I ever heard the term "phasing" and my favorite example of it.

[Mixmachine]

I used two and four beats most of the time, but many songs sound great with one beat, try "Contact" and use the crossfade, the first song I ever experimented the echo effect was "you'll never find" by Lou Rawl using four beats effect, You’ll never find… , you’ll never find…. another love like mine….another live like mine, you keep searching and searching…searching and searching... great song to play with

[NickNack]

On 2002-06-28 22:11, markydefad wrote:
When I worked at Aloha, Steve (The Tauntress) phased 2 copies of "Give It To Me Baby" by Rick James; one record 2 beats behind the other to awesome effect.

That was the first time I ever heard the term "phasing" and my favorite example of it.

Oh, oh. Maybe we've got another West Coast-East Coast lingo-thing going on here. When we used the term "phasing" in NYC, it meant when the DJ was working two copies of the same song on the SAME beat. The effect you hear is that 'airplane whine' as the sound phases in-and-out, up-and-down as the frequencies cross and cancel each other out in the system. You actually force the phasing by synching your records as close as possible then taking one out of pitch and then back. Great effect.

Is this the same thing you're talking about 'Little Bro'? Just curious.

[DJ Bozo]

Well, in the middle coast , phasing was what NickNack said - both records on the same beat but when they got just a little out of phase, you get that airplane whine effect. Being 2/4/whatever beats delayed was echoing.

[nrgbeat]

On 2002-06-29 15:39, NickNack wrote:

On 2002-06-28 22:11, markydefad wrote:
When I worked at Aloha, Steve (The Tauntress) phased 2 copies of "Give It To Me Baby" by Rick James; one record 2 beats behind the other to awesome effect.

That was the first time I ever heard the term "phasing" and my favorite example of it.

Oh, oh. Maybe we've got another West Coast-East Coast lingo-thing going on here. When we used the term "phasing" in NYC, it meant when the DJ was working two copies of the same song on the SAME beat. The effect you hear is that 'airplane whine' as the sound phases in-and-out, up-and-down as the frequencies cross and cancel each other out in the system. You actually force the phasing by synching your records as close as possible then taking one out of pitch and then back. Great effect.

Is this the same thing you're talking about 'Little Bro'? Just curious.

I made a tape last night with two copies of "I Will Survive" and phased Ms. Gaynor. At one point the songs went out of synch and I pressed a little to hard on the pitch bend and it made a dragging sound.

[markydefad]

Hey, I thought it was called "phasing"--BUT I COULD BE WRONG. I was never a DJ, so I defer to your expertise.

_________________
Make My Feet Wanna Dance!

Markydefad

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: markydefad on 2002-06-29 18:39 ]</font>

[NickNack]

On 2002-06-29 18:07, nrgbeat wrote:
I made a tape last night with two copies of "I Will Survive" and phased Ms. Gaynor. At one point the songs went out of synch and I pressed a little to hard on the pitch bend and it made a dragging sound.

Yes. One problem with working two of the same songs with both gains up is that the errors are magnified, along with the great effects. If the turntable your working with starts to slip out of synch, just bring that table's level down some so that you don't 'air' (put it out on the floor) your correction process.

Trust us, you'll be having a good time in no time.

_________________
Dancin'... A Thing To Free Your Mind

Nicky

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NickNack on 2002-06-29 20:32 ]</font>

[NickNack]

On 2002-06-29 18:38, markydefad wrote:
Hey, I thought it was called "phasing"--BUT I COULD BE WRONG. I was never a DJ, so I defer to your expertise.

_________________
Make My Feet Wanna Dance!

Markydefad

My so-called expertise: :lol:

What I use to call 'reverb' someone told me was 'echo'.
When I started using the term 'echo' I was corrected and told it was 'delay'.
And, after years of calling what we just described to you as 'phasing', I was told the correct term is 'flange'.

Don't worry, somebody's always got another term for it.

BTW --- loved your joke you shared with 'the joker'.

HAPPY PRIDE "LITTLE BRO!"

[BrunoRepublic]

On 2002-06-29 20:39, NickNack wrote:

And, after years of calling what we just described to you as 'phasing', I was told the correct term is 'flange'.

The two effects are quite similar, the main difference being the actual delay between the two signals. With phasing, the delay is very short so that you get very slow phase cancellation between them. Flanging uses a longer delay... and if you go even longer, then you get chorusing

[JussiK]

..but please, don't overdo it! Think of the dancers - some could be very much wanting to experience a classic song without anybody fiddling too much with it. Remember that overphased tekknoid mix of Thelma Houston's DON'T LEAVE ME THIS WAY - who actually enjoyed that? Best tracks to phase are the electronic ones, they're set it that mood to begin with.

[NickNack]

On 2002-06-30 06:20, JussiK wrote:
..but please, don't overdo it! Remember that overphased tekknoid mix of Thelma Houston's DON'T LEAVE ME THIS WAY - who actually enjoyed that?

I know this mix --- it's Hot Tracks. God, I hate it. Totally overdone. If they had just used it sparingly, it could have been so much better.

[NickNack]

On 2002-06-30 00:14, Graham Start wrote:

On 2002-06-29 20:39, NickNack wrote:

And, after years of calling what we just described to you as 'phasing', I was told the correct term is 'flange'.

The two effects are quite similar, the main difference being the actual delay between the two signals. With phasing, the delay is very short so that you get very slow phase cancellation between them. Flanging uses a longer delay... and if you go even longer, then you get chorusing

I knew a MusicMan would come to my Emotional Rescue.

[keefelc]

Nicky, I'm afraid Mark has his terms confused. We also knew "phasing" as you explained. I believe that playing one copy a few beats after the other was known as "backbeating". Another trick the DJs used over here was known as "feedback" (feeding the signal back into a tape deck to get controllable reverb - I always have a hard time explaining it).

Mark, our dear Tauntress was "Steven," not "Steve." How could you forget???

[NickNack]

On 2002-07-01 20:42, keefelc wrote:
Nicky, I'm afraid Mark has his terms confused. We also knew "phasing" as you explained. I believe that playing one copy a few beats after the other was known as "backbeating". Another trick the DJs used over here was known as "feedback" (feeding the signal back into a tape deck to get controllable reverb - I always have a hard time explaining it).

Mark, our dear Tauntress was "Steven," not "Steve." How could you forget???

Hi Keefe,

Good to see ya. Your "feedback" explanation is fine. A lot of us did that, especially since a lot of clubs back then spent their money sparingly when it came to the DJ and the equipment. Still thinking it was just a fad I guess, or maybe just cheap. Anyway, before we got our processor 'toys', if you were recording while playing and then brought up the playback volume to the floor, you got that effect. It was fun, the tricks the guys behind the booth were thinking up to make a night work.

[Jimmy-Michaels]

I'll tell ya, Ive taken the break section of Amant's "If There's Love" and did a 2 beat delay and it sounds awsome. Then when the claping part comes it it all comes together like its being played at the same part at the same time and gives that wahh wahh effect(this might be the feedback thing Keefelc was refering to, if so, i call it wahh wahh). Also, just for a trippy type deal, if you take that end section of Cerrone's "Supernature" (In The Smoke) and play it almost 3-4 sec. behind each other it is a trip.

DJ Jimmy M

[DiscJockey2973]

Hello room, 'Phasing', 'Rimming' is when two records/cd of the exact cut (lp,12")is played a 'mili-second' in front of or behind the other. Depending on the 'timing' you will achieve a 'electronic' effect. You can get many sounds (mild 'electronic, severe 'sounds like a jet engine', etc) again depending on the distance/time between the two copies. Echoing can be 2,4,6,etc. beats depending on the effect wanted. If you wanted to 'echo' a lyric ('loving' 'loving' 'is the feeling now' 'is the feeling now'-Michael Jackson's 'Don't Stop Til You Get Enough') then one copy would be 4 beats behind (remember 4 beats in a measure of music). Both 'effects' are fun to experiment with. Another 'MJ' song that is fun to 'echo' is 'They Way You Make Me Feel'. A 4 beat 'echo' will run almost through the entire remix.

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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DiscJockey2973 on 2002-07-07 09:22 ]</font>