Miquel Brown - Symphony Of Love LP Defect? Or...

[Jimmy-Michaels]

Hey all, just wanted to post this question here and see if anyone else has experienced this...I recently went out and bought a home systym turntable cause my DJ tables are starting to wear thin on the cartridges and well..since I dont DJ anymore was no need to spend extra bucks..anyhow back to my point...I was trying to record my Miquel Brown LP on it and..on the first track on side 2 (The Day That They Got Disco In Brazil)...the damn thing was jumpin all over the place! I literaly spent about 30 mins on the one damn song as I finaly had to memorise the jumps and gently place my hand on the needle to stop it from jumping at the parts! I felt tremendous bass vibrations through the needle too. Now does this occur on every copy if not played on a DJ table with the weight on the tone arm? Or is my new table just that sensitive :o

[Eurodancemix]

It's not a defect in your LP. Modern non-DJ turntables are notorious for having ultra-lightweight tone arms. It's crazy--even after making all the weight adjustments using the tonearm's counterweight, they still skip!

The solution is simple, though not necessarily aesthetically "cool". Tape (or carefully glue) a penny to the top of your tonearm. This will put just enough weight on the cartridge so that it won't skip. I've been doing this for years: it does NOT damage the needle, the cartridge or the record.

[Sami M]

Yes, it skips on my copy too! And with SL1200 aswell on "not scratch" settings.

[BrunoRepublic]

Funny you should mention this; I recently started a restoration job on this record and had the same problem myself. It's a mastering flaw inherent in US copies. It's funny because after I recorded side one, I was thinking 'wow, this LP is cut rather hot for one which has 20 minutes per side'. And there isn't any stereo-image narrowing (compared against the UK 12" of the title track) which is common on US Polydor releases of the era. Result: the grooves run into each other in at least two spots on 'The Day That They Got Disco In Brazil'.

Solution: Play around with your anti-skate settings -- use less if it's skipping backwards, which is what I had, or more if it's skipping forwards. Or try to find a foreign copy. Canadian copies don't have this problem, but they don't sound as good either.

Does your copy also have a nasty ripping noise near the end of "This Is Something New To Me"? I seem to recall having this in both my US and Canadian copies, which would imply that it's a flaw in the master tape.

[Eurodancemix]

Well, guess I was wrong on that one...

[Jimmy-Michaels]

Funny you should mention this; I recently started a restoration job on this record and had the same problem myself. It's a mastering flaw inherent in US copies. It's funny because after I recorded side one, I was thinking 'wow, this LP is cut rather hot for one which has 20 minutes per side'. And there isn't any stereo-image narrowing (compared against the UK 12" of the title track) which is common on US Polydor releases of the era. Result: the grooves run into each other in at least two spots on 'The Day That They Got Disco In Brazil'.

Solution: Play around with your anti-skate settings -- use less if it's skipping backwards, which is what I had, or more if it's skipping forwards. Or try to find a foreign copy. Canadian copies don't have this problem, but they don't sound as good either.

Does your copy also have a nasty ripping noise near the end of "This Is Something New To Me"? I seem to recall having this in both my US and Canadian copies, which would imply that it's a flaw in the master tape.

Ahh very good to know this just wasnt me! The anti skate didnt even help on this one...I had to as I was saying in the original post kinda be my own anti skate LOL. It had finally worked after wanting to rip my goatee outta my chin and yelll at the top of my lungs (since I dont have any hair to pull out LOL). The quality on this vinyl is actualy supurb and didnt need much restoration other than some high and mid adjustments put on the EQ through my mixer and some manual pop removals in a few spots. I woulda ended up knockin this out in a few hours or less last night if it wasnt for that damn defect :evil: Twards the end of "Something New To Me" I did notice a kind of static (is this what you ment by ripping noise?) which I wasnt able to get out of the recording..but was nothing major sounding..almost naked to the ear unless your on headphones and listening for it. Was yours a different type noise or is that what you were talkin bout?

[BrunoRepublic]

Yeah, it's a noise mainly in the left channel. See the rest of my notes on this at http://www.livejournal.com/users/grahamstart/

[Mixmachine]

Guys I pulled both my copies of this Polydor USA LP(PD-1-6183) they both play fine using the old trusted Stanton 680 EL DJ carts tracking @ 2 Grams with anti-skating the same, then tried again using the Shure V15 tracking @ 1 gram and one of the two copies skips, defeating anti skating works fine with this copy, the other copy won't skip at all with or without anti skating; The copy that skips I bought retail back then and was the one played, the second copy was given later at the Pool with cut out corner, if they corrected the mastering process it is impossible to tell since both copies carry the same catalog number even in the run out grove, they look identical.

[BrunoRepublic]

Using a Shure V15VxMR, there are three points in the track where it will skip backwards with normal anti-skate settings, which is very rare for me. Reducing anti-skate somewhat clears one, but the other requires anti-skate to be nil for it to pass through. My copy was used (obviously) and has signs of groove wear in other parts, so I'm thinking that playing with a wide stylus on a high VTF could wear down the groove wall in a couple of parts. It's noteworthy that there is no loud pop when it skips like you would have with a bad scratch.

Anyway, I managed to work around it. :)

[Mixmachine]

It's noteworthy that there is no loud pop when it skips like you would have with a bad scratch.

Mine just goes into a four beat loop, right on beat too, it ends up sounding like "is a social revoluSocial revoluSocial revolu" :lol: By the way , I don't think I ever listened to any of this old stuff in a good "Hi Fi" set up back then, more like bass heavy , loud speakers or Clubs monitors and/or head sets, car setups etc, listening to this music now while relaxing and paying attention to details I can hear many things I never did before, for instance on "Symphony" Miquel's vocals and those dramatic violins in the background float beautifly in the center stage, and the way the background vocalists clearly alternate between right and left is very nice, listening here by the PC on headphones is not the same......

[Jimmy-Michaels]

Now the back skipping is an interesting question here...cause on my DJ table even with the anti skate there was one part that always did a back skip on that song..i remember clearly one time I was live in the mix a few years ago at a private spin and the one line skipped back over and over in perfect beat "social revolu - social revolu - etc.. (lol)" and it took me a min to relise what was happening and i actualy mixed out on that back skip..dont think anyone noticed :lol: But on the DJ table thats the only prob I ever encountered with that record. On my new home systym table is where the prob happened last night and fixed it manualy while playing the track. I tried the one suggestion for the hell of it tonight that was posted earlier about the penny on the tone arm and ****..it worked!!!

I was gonna post another subject but since it goes with the same topic..just diff record..i was recording my Tantra "Double Album" tonight and the sameeee prob with Miquel happened on the "Mother Africa" suite and "Wishbone"..but it was worse! This is record 2 BTW for those who dont know the LP. What im begining to notice is that the high quality vinyl pressings from back then are not agreeing too well with my home stereo table..however, the good ol' penny trick fixed Tantra as well! Thanks to who suggested that :D

[Jimmy-Michaels]

Graham, I was just reading your page..and this is kinda jacking the thread totaly in a diff direction but... :lol: .....

I noticed on your Love & Kisses restore you mentioned you added 12'' edits? The only one I knew of was the 5 min promo for "I Found Love"...was there a promo edit for "Accidental Lover" as well?

[Jimmy-Michaels]

It's noteworthy that there is no loud pop when it skips like you would have with a bad scratch.

Mine just goes into a four beat loop, right on beat too, it ends up sounding like "is a social revoluSocial revoluSocial revolu" :lol:......

LOLLLL we musta been posting at the same time...well that answers my question...same back skip on the one part! :lol:

[BrunoRepublic]

Graham, I was just reading your page..and this is kinda jacking the thread totaly in a diff direction but... :lol: .....

I noticed on your Love & Kisses restore you mentioned you added 12'' edits? The only one I knew of was the 5 min promo for "I Found Love"...was there a promo edit for "Accidental Lover" as well?

Not an official one. That horrid-sounding Unidisc Costandinos CD comp which goes for absurd money on eBay has a 9-minute edit of "Accidental Lover", and not the full version. I simply recreated it.

[BrunoRepublic]

and the one line skipped back over and over in perfect beat "social revolu - social revolu - etc.. (lol)"

Mine skips most on a part "everybody's going crazy.... crazy... crazy... crazy...". I guess the song's tempo is close to a multiple of 33.3 (133 BPM?) and the large modulations from the kick drum line up and run into each other.

[BrunoRepublic]

What im begining to notice is that the high quality vinyl pressings from back then are not agreeing too well with my home stereo table..

You're being sarcastic, right? In terms of quality, the late 70s was the low point for vinyl...

[Jimmy-Michaels]

LOLL of corse im being sarcastic. Also, bout the Costandinos...ive heard and have a copy of that horrid edit on the Unidisc..ive actualy made a 10xs better edit than they did :lol:

[BrunoRepublic]

Yes, it's pretty weak (as is the overall quality and presentation of the Unidisc CD). I just included it for "historical" reasons, since it was commercially released. Same goes for the 7" versions, which are literally the worst edit jobs I've ever heard on a commercial product.

I really lucked out finding a UK copy of that album. The sound quality is excellent, and it has the intro dialogue too :)

[Jimmy-Michaels]

I have a French press on Barclay with the talking intro on Accidental Lover too :D It is kinda hard to make out what Alec is saying though on that..his voice is very low LOL. As for horrable 7'' edits..ive heard the horror storys about the "I found Love" 7'' import..however the US 7'' is actualy a damn good edit and if ya never heard the song before..youd think it was in full at 3 mins and 40 some secs

[BrunoRepublic]

I have a French press on Barclay with the talking intro on Accidental Lover too :D It is kinda hard to make out what Alec is saying though on that..his voice is very low LOL.

Invert one channel and sum to mono. Or use the center channel extractor in Adobe Auditon 1.5. This will cancel out the traffic noise and you can clearly hear what is being said.

F: My mother told me never to speak to strangers.
M: Even when they've got candy?
F: (chuckling) Yes, even when they have candy.
M: My name is Alfred.
F: Alfred?? ALFRED?!
M: Yeah
F: (laughs)
M: What's so funny?
F: With this eye, and that eye, and that grin, and those ears... you sure it isn't Alfred E. Newman?
M: No, but I've got the freckles. [I think -- can't really make it out] Ok, how do I get out of this town? Which way do I go?
F: (seductively) You want to know where to go? I'll tell you where to go... (music begins)

[Jimmy-Michaels]

Ahhhhhh! Now it all makes sence LOL...I was always only able to make out what the gal was sayin :lol:

[darrens]

F: My mother told me never to speak to strangers.
M: Even when they've got candy?
F: (chuckling) Yes, even when they have candy.
M: My name is Alfred.
F: Alfred?? ALFRED?!
M: Yeah
F: (laughs)
M: What's so funny?
F: With this eye, and that eye, and that grin, and those ears... you sure it isn't Alfred E. Newman?
M: No, but I've got the freckles. [I think -- can't really make it out] Ok, how do I get out of this town? Which way do I go?
F: (seductively) You want to know where to go? I'll tell you where to go... (music begins)

Why did they exclude that from the US version of the LP, then? If you'll pardon the pun, That ain't no "That ain't no banana"! :o

[BrunoRepublic]

Beats me. Perhaps they thought that people wouldn't buy into the story of the song if they knew that the male character resembled Alfred E. Newman. Perhaps they were just impatient and couldn't wait for the music to start. Perhaps Casablanca was provided a master that was missing the intro (unlike Love In C Minor, the intro here was clearly spliced on).