Link: Disco Messages

[Marcio**]

DISCO_MESSAGES

Understand this groove :D

[SandraDee]

This is quite a coincidence as my current 'obsession' is disco cover versions of songs from the pre-disco era/genre. That list is only the tip of the iceberg; it amazes me how many disco covers were made & generally how good the arrangements were. I love a cover version when it gives a song a different treatment to the original whereas I hate bland note for note copies like Simply Red's version of Harold Melvin's 'If You Dont Know Me By Now' (I don't like it when people cover soul & disco anyway!). Linda Clifford's cover versions are probably my favourites of all-time.

[DISCODISK]

whereas I hate bland note for note copies like Simply Red's version of Harold Melvin's 'If You Dont Know Me By Now'

i remember years ago moneys too tight to mention-the valentine brothers on bridge was quite in demand especially on a 7" it was no big moneyrecord but it was going for a fiver in the 80s, i remember listing a couple of copies for sale and had so many phone calls from europe too,then 'GINGHA' covered it and totally killed it,i think people hate it so much they cant even bear to listen to the original either, now you get the valentine brothers on a bridge 7" free inside cereal packets :lol:

[SandraDee]

yeh, the ginger minger knows how to cheapen a song! :lol: Don't even get me started on what he did to Cole Porter's 'Every Time We Say Goodbye'. :evil:

[QUINNY]

Duh!!! There be some real deep understanding in dat dere list.....NOT!!!

Obviously written by a 12 year old for a school project.

[SandraDee]

Is it your time of the month or something Q?

[QUINNY]

Steely: No, not my time of the month, but to say those jottings were anything more than facile would be stretching a point. I actually think the author(ess?) has entirely missed the point on many of them.

[passaro]

thats right guys!, quinny wrote the lyrics to all those songs, recorded and engineered them, funded their production and played them at all the hip nightclubs circa 70s.

[QUINNY]

No I didn't. Stop being a prat!!!

[BrunoRepublic]

I have to agree with Q here. In addition to reading like a grade school project, I think the whole point of that page is backwards. With a handful of noteworthy exceptions, disco wasn't about lyrics. It was party music, feel-good music, pure escapism. One could debate that they worked on a greater level by being a vehicle for then-new hedonistic values, but that's about as philosophical as one can get and still maintain any credibility IMHO.

A friend of mine who favours punk music said that the main thing that bothered him about disco was the often fluffy or inane lyrics. I explained to him that just as punk was not about musicianship, disco was not about lyrical depth. People want to be moved by the rhythms and riffs, not the words. Finding deep and profound meaning in disco lyrics is like viewing punk as a high art -- if you've reached that level, you've missed the point IMO.

[discosavvy]

I find some of the replies here very idiotic. I wrote that piece and I'm proud of it, and it is a part of the disco story that needed to be documented. The more current version is at http://www.discosavvy.com/messagesongs.html
I didn't say that disco was ABOUT the lyrics, but frankly if you ignore its roots in soul music and if you don't understand the need to counter anti-disco lies that taint disco with the Village People and "Ring My Bell" brush, then you do not understand the importance of documenting history, including documenting which songs are covers of others and which songs carried a message that people related to (songs like "I Will Survive" and "Bad Luck").

Nicky Siano and Tim Lawrence were recently interviewed on a radio program about disco and the host said he hadn't heard of any messages in disco and that it was one of the typical rockers' attacks against disco. Siano attempted to prove him wrong by playing an up-tempo funk song that had a message and referring to "Love Train" by the O'Jays and the peace movements of the late '60s and early '70s, and how disco itself, both as a form of music employing black women in large numbers and as fuel for a more free lifestyle, was a message of liberation for minorities. SIANO COULD HAVE USED MY LIST AT THAT MOMENT.

Quinny, considering as you admitted months ago that you don't read books, I really could care less about your attack on me. For the record I am a recognized historian in another field of study and have been published widely in books, journals, and encyclopedias in several languages. I did write something scholarly on disco recently also. Would you rather that an anti-disco historian writes yet another encyclopedic piece claiming disco is "electronic", "mindless", a "fad", "harmful" to the music industry, "chaotic", "cluttered", or "unmelodic" - and I've seen many of these sentiments in supposedly objective music encyclopedias. The people who write those pieces scarcely have familiarity with disco, or at least have a preconceived bias against it. And for the record I have heard in excess of 4200 disco songs and that doesn't count all the house, techno, Hi-NRG, funk, Motown, etc. I've heard over the years. Hardly a one-off 12 year old school project.

And Graham, try not reducing disco to junk like "Ethel Merman's Disco Album" next time you run a website on disco. You're not one to talk either. Your website read like an anti-disco perspective on disco.

What are you two doing for disco RIGHT NOW? Are you promoting disco? Listening to and buying new disco? Discovering new disco artists? Attending disco events and concerts? I didn't think so. This is just a nostalgic exercise for you baby-boomer old-timers and you don't care about leaving disco a legacy or perpetuation. Don't play the age card with me and pretend that you "know" disco better than I do. I grew up with disco all around me and I'm presently 30.

I don't listen to disco in nightclubs at excessive volumes. What a dumb way to experience this music. I listen to it mostly at home, at reasonable volume, and that's why songs that don't pass muster with casual listening are rejected by me whereas party animals could care less. There's enough room in this world for different opinions. I like my disco R&B-based and high-quality. That doesn't mean I require meaningful lyrics, it just means I can appreciate them.

I document the aspects of disco that no one else does. Someone has to do it.

[QUINNY]

DiscoSavvy: I don't think you wrote that piece with enough gravitas and I certainly don't think that the repetition of actual lines within a song shows any deep understanding of them. Sorry if that offends.

So far as I'm concerned, x long, tiring years as a pro club DJ was doing enough for Disco. Why should I have to any more now (although, you're reading it first, I have got the urge to do some DJing again)?

[discosavvy]

That particular piece was written to be accessible, not scholarly. The words were not quoted verbatim but rather paraphrased (obviously because I did not obtain the right to reprint lyrics). And it's simply to document what the messages are - all elements of the lyrics, however contrived or simplistic some of the sentiments may be (e.g., "Love Train", which has been called naive by some, and "Don't Feel Bad", which isn't the strongest of the Whitehead & McFadden compositions). It was not intended to be a scholarly analysis, but a quick listing of songs of this nature. I don't claim to be a poet, and this is not necessarily the final version of the summation.

Also, the attentive reader will notice my sentence "Not that there's anything wrong with those kinds of songs either." concerning "simple-minded lyrics about dancing all night long". I wasn't attacking wholesale any particular disco theme. Examples: I like "Stomp!" by the Brothers Johnson even though it's nothing more than a party song, because I like the way it grooves. I like "He's the Greatest Dancer" because it has a sophisticated lyrical spin on the dancing theme.

[discofresh]

I quite like Jackie Moore's "this time baby" which covered the O Jays track of the same name. Schmoooove

DJ Boogie Badness :D

[Mixmachine]

perhaps you can look into adding this cuts to your list....

"The Bottle" Jil Scott Heron, about the dangers of alcoholism
"La la peace song" OC Smith version, about getting along and living in peace.
"Peace and love" Ron Butler & Ramblers, protest song about fixing the world.

[discosavvy]

It's true that "The Bottle" and "La, La, Peace Song" were notable discotheque songs, but they aren't disco music, technically speaking, which is why they aren't in my lists. "La, La, Peace Song" is really just a soul song. I like Maysa Leak's house version of "The Bottle" from the year 2000 better than Gil Scott-Heron's original.

Jackie Moore's great and I find "This Time Baby" to be electrifying. I hope someday I can hear her song "Singing Funky Music Turns Me On" because listening to funky music turns me on. :)

[Mixmachine]

It's true that "The Bottle" and "La, La, Peace Song" were notable discotheque songs, but they aren't disco music, technically speaking, which is why they aren't in my lists. "La, La, Peace Song" is really just a soul song.

Before 1979 and the introduction of New Wave/Punk all music played in Clubs by a DJ was "Disco" music, it was music to DANCE to at a "Discotheque", but we've been through this before.....

Fortune 500 Discotheque songs of the 70's, a chart compiled in '79 at the end of the Disco period, shows the following track entries...
The Bottle- Gil Scott Heron @ #106
La La Peace song-OC Smith @ #27
Peace & Love- Ron Buttler & Ramblers @ #87

I believe some of this songs also appeared on Billboard 'Disco' Charts,..

And Sorry but "What a fool believes " by the Doobies ain't no DISCO, even if some confused Djs played it :lol: :lol:

[Anonymous]

discosavvy dont worry, most people on here only want to argue. i love your site! :)

[passaro]

i agree! your site is cool discosavvy! alot of people on this board talk alot of crap and have NOTHING to follow it up with. at least you have a kick ass site discosavvy! respect.

[QUINNY]

Some of us are actually old enough to have been there AT THE TIME and haven't had the need for any disco revisionist theories.

We don't really need 30 year olds (or younger) to tell us how we felt or what we did......we already know. :lol: :lol: :lol:

BTW: I agree that DiscoSavvy's site is a very good one, even if his definitions are tight and sometimes over restrictive. But, this piece about meanings WAS rather over simplistic IMO.

[QUINNY]

Some of us are actually old enough to have been there AT THE TIME and haven't had the need for any disco revisionist theories.

We don't really need 30 year olds (or younger) to tell us how we felt or what we did......we already know. :lol: :lol: :lol:

BTW 1: I agree that DiscoSavvy's site is a very good one, even if his definitions are tight and sometimes over restrictive. But, this piece about meanings WAS rather over simplistic IMO.

BTW 2: We don't come here to argue, but to discuss. That way enlightenment will surely follow. IMO, the problem is some of you younger guys have been spoilt rotten and don't know what it's like to have someone not give in to your every whim and say "hold on a minute, I don't think that's right."

BTW 3: Passaro. Are you saying that a website 30 years after the event is fundamentally more important than real life, in the flesh, warts and all experience? By discussing matters on this site, maybe the website owners learn a thing or two and maybe, one or two preconceptions or perceived wisdoms are turned on their heads. Food for thought, I hope.

[discosavvy]

What does "old enough to have been there AT THE TIME" mean Quinny? I was old enough to hear the disco hits (and a few obscurities that were regional hits in the NYC area) on the radio every day. That included "Midnight Love Affair" by Carol Douglas, "I'm Happy Just to Dance With You" by Maureen McGovern, "I've Got the Next Dance" by Deniece Williams, "After Dark" by Patti Brooks, "Streetplayer" by Chicago, "Hey Girl, Come and Get It" by the Stylistics, "I Like What You're Doing to Me" by Young and Co., and several hundred others. I was old enough to attend a local roller-disco from 1982-1984 wearing the old-style skates and hearing all the "boogie" songs of the time so I know that subculture very well. I was old enough to remember when disco seemed to be on television a lot; my permanent memories begin around 1979, and what was hot in 1979? Sorry Quinny but I even grew up on the pop, rock, and instrumental hits of the late 1950s and 1960s simultaneously, so even those are first-hand knowledge to me. I just absorbed what was easily available around me: the music, the attitudes, the fashions, the cars, everything.

Quinny I thought it was you who admitted that disco was still around in the early 1980s (Kool and the Gang being one of the obvious examples); now, because it's convenient, you want to pretend disco ended at the end of the 1970s, so as to exclude me. And because I didn't party for hours on end in a drug-filled haze living a "live only for today" lifestyle with music blaring at excessive levels and asking girls "what's your sign?" in the late 1970s I guess I really don't "understand" the music.

"Disco-La-Fortune 500" is just a list of songs played in discotheques, and that includes pure funk songs, and "Superstition" by Stevie Wonder, and the REALLY SLOW ballads "Always and Forever" by Heatwave and "Reasons" by EWF. That would mean that every slow soul song from the 1970s would be "disco", and so would every Funkadelic song (much to their dismay), and so would every Commodores song, and every 100% electronic song. In fact, sometimes rock songs were played in discos, as Tim Lawrence documented, even as early as 1971 or 1972. I refuse to defer to a flawed and inconsistent definition of disco from one or a couple of DJs who had their say and then disappeared. I am coming from a musical perspective, not a nightclub perspective. Some DJs agree with me and others don't. I don't go by opinions. I could have 99% of people disagreeing with me, and if I'm right I'll stick by what I know to be true.

"What a Fool Believes" is a pop-oriented disco song, no doubt about it. The beat is there, the bass groove is there, the vibe is there. There was even a Disco Mix of it made by Jim Burgess that I don't particularly like that made it even more disco. It was played in some discos, so according to your "definition" it is disco... or do you contradict yourself? And what was that again about overly narrow definitions of disco? Who's really narrow now?

Quinny in your last message you said "30 years after the event" ... so disco died in 1975? What does that mean, "the event"? Producers and musicians like passaro are keeping disco alive today. I do not see anyone in the entire world who is documenting disco from circa the year 2005. Don't shoot your allies. So when Norman Jay and Nicky Siano spin records today and people dance to it, that doesn't count. When Chic and the Trammps perform today, that doesn't count. When disco is on television in Sweden every year, that doesn't count. When hustle dance contests are held across America in memory of Van McCoy, that doesn't count.

No, only your old-timer baby-boomer disco era that you pretend to exclusively "own" counts to you. And any 12 year old schoolchild should never be encouraged to learn disco either; they'll never "get it", huh. Yeah, keep insulting people younger than yourself. Next you'll tell me TJ Lubinsky has no right to call disco "My Music" because he's only 32. And Tim Lawrence didn't used to like disco in his younger days, so I suppose he has no right to write about it either? Is disco timeless or isn't it?

If you disagree with my interpretations of disco, WHERE'S YOUR WEBSITE with your opinions? Put up or shut up.

[QUINNY]

DiscoSavvy: Why so upset? To me it's obvious that people of my age, who actually paricipated in Disco's golden era have a far different take on things, than younger guys who have only gained their knowledge through books and websites, written by their contemporaries or only slightly older people, with no first hand experience whatsoever. It's one thing to hear music on the radio or in a roller rink and a completely different experience to hear it in a discotheque of its time. Not meant as a dig, but just stating the obvious, I would have thought. So, I don't need to have a website dedicated to Disco, I dedicated my life to it and it was my life. That you don't see the validity of my stance, is beguiling. So, I appreciate your website on one level, but on another you have to realise that it doesn't press all my buttons. No big deal.

I'm not going to get into an argument about what is and what isn't Disco or when it stopped, but Disco in its accepted general term refers to 1976 -1979, which is 26 - 29 years ago. O.K it's not 30 years ago, but near enough for the meaning of my post to be understood by anyone less pedantic.

My comments were aimed more at Passaro, a guy who's making a habit of slagging off anyone who disagrees with him. I've assumed that such immaturity means that he is 30 or less, but I could be wrong.

[Anonymous]

"Disco-La-Fortune 500" is just a list of songs played in discotheques, and that includes pure funk songs, and "Superstition" by Stevie Wonder, and the REALLY SLOW ballads "Always and Forever" by Heatwave and "Reasons" by EWF. That would mean that every slow soul song from the 1970s would be "disco", and so would every Funkadelic song (much to their dismay), and so would every Commodores song, and every 100% electronic song. In fact, sometimes rock songs were played in discos, as Tim Lawrence documented, even as early as 1971 or 1972. I refuse to defer to a flawed and inconsistent definition of disco from one or a couple of DJs who had their say and then disappeared. I am coming from a musical perspective, not a nightclub perspective. Some DJs agree with me and others don't. ]

This chart perfectly illustrates what the word ‘Disco’ meant before late 70’s marketing geniuses redefined the word to sell music to the masses, a ‘tainted’ definition that many online revisionist still sell today, “Disco” was “music” played at a discotheque and back then a “Disco Mix" or “Extended Disco version” meant a special DJ friendly or longer version for “Discotheque” play, that's all, the "Disco" term had nothing to do with any particular sound structure (although many share similar traits), it could be Funk,Soul,Godspel, even a slow ballad! Any revisionist that doesn’t get this is just another one of the countless victims of late 70’s corporate hype that still blindly falls for old corporate marketing strategies, even to this day; Although I don’t know any of the compilers’ personal histories, they were active eyewitness participants in this era’s events with fresh memories of what was playing in clubs a few years back, therefore this DJ's opinions, so cavalierly dismissed by you here should [b]WEIGHT [b]more (not less) when self professed Disco history “preservationist ” activist like you formulate and disseminate opinions that will forever influence the mind of impressionable youngsters that visit this board or you Page, if not, you just another ‘run of the mill’ opinionated youngster with some extra ISP space selling your ‘Narrow” views of an era you only experienced through somebody’s else’s eyes…

Here, check this irrefutable example, of wish I own dozens of different ones, why do the mark Side A as “Disco Version” and not Side B?, after all they are the same song, right?


http://www.discomusic.com/records-more/4237_0_2_0_C/

I don't go by opinions. I could have 99% of people disagreeing with me, and if I'm right I'll stick by what I know to be true.

And this statement speaks volumes about the objectivity of your research and/or statements on your page, this are not my opinions, that chart is a historical account of the day which you carelessly choose to ignore because it doesn't square with your mistaken 'Narrow' opinion of what constitutes Disco Music....…

"What a Fool Believes" is a pop-oriented disco song, no doubt about it. The beat is there, the bass groove is there, the vibe is there. There was even a Disco Mix of it made by Jim Burgess that I don't particularly like that made it even more disco. It was played in some discos, so according to your "definition" it is disco... or do you contradict yourself? And what was that again about overly narrow definitions of disco? Who's really narrow now?

This song was/is a perfect example of how in the late 70’s after “Disco” became Radio top 40 material many club DJs (mostly straight clubs) were pressured from many different angles to play cheesy “pop” music that the recently brainwashed masses now rushing to clubs expected to hear , the fact that Burgess re-mixed it (don’t recall) only mean that he needed to make a living just like the rest of us, besides, from a remixers business point of view ‘exposure’, even if from an overly hyped Blue eye cheesy classic like this (I think they even gave it Grammy too) can only enhance his rep and pocket book, and since I'm a realist I don't blame him for that, many other ‘remixers’ also gave us crates full of trash still littering my warehouse, it was all part of the Disco Landscape...

[Mixmachine]

I guess the board bumped me off...the last post is mine...