When was Eurodisco born?

**Funky Dude** · June 10th, 2002, 08:20 AM

Seeing Eurodisco is a hot topic right now, I thought I'd add this thread.

Now when did Eurodisco started? And what was considered the first Eurodisco song?

My guess the first Eurodisco songs were:
Giorgio Moroder - Son Of My Father 1972
Defranco Family - Heartbeat 1973
Donna Summer - Lady Of The Night 1974
Although these songs sound a little more rock than disco.

**markydefad** · June 10th, 2002, 11:30 AM

According to the Billboard Disco charts that started in Oct l974, (which I've been researching), I would pick "Save Me" by the Silver Convention, released in early 1975 in the U.S. (Originally listed as Silver Bird).

I'm sure there were others that crossed the shores earlier--but as far as the charts go and from what I remember dancing to at Buzzby's in SF (DON'T CALL IT FRISCO)--this was the beginning of a new sound.

AND, I might add, the first DISCO LP I ever purchased. GO figure.

_________________
Make My Feet Wanna Dance!

Markydefad

[ This Message was edited by: markydefad on 2002-06-10 13:12 ]

**zeca azevedo** · June 10th, 2002, 12:06 PM

Hi

When was Eurodisco born? On a bad bad bad bad day for sure! LOL

**zeca azevedo** · June 10th, 2002, 12:14 PM

Hey FUNKY,
I'm sorry, I couldn't resist making a little joke here...

Peace and UNDERSTANDING

zeca azevedo

**Funky Dude** · June 10th, 2002, 06:30 PM

zeca azevedo wrote:
Hey FUNKY,
I'm sorry, I couldn't resist making a little joke here...

Peace and UNDERSTANDING

zeca azevedo

No problem mate. I can see the funny side to your comment :lol: :lol: :lol: even though I'm a Eurodisco fan myself.

[ This Message was edited by: Funky Dude on 2002-06-10 19:34 ]

**JussiK** · June 10th, 2002, 11:46 PM

Eurodisco started on a hot night in Rome in 1966, when Bruno Nicolai's KISS KISS BANG BANG first bursted through loudspeakers in cinemas nationwide and went on to blast through orange and mauve ones in swinging nightclubs. I so much would have loved to have been there, driving up in a hot black Jaguar e-type ( like the one John Philip Law had in Mario Bava's immortal Danger: Diabolik, the best film ever made). This tune marked the beginning with it's pounding rhythm and girlie chorus repeating the simple lyrics. Subsequently lightweight fluff became a norm on euro charts. African influences started to emerge as well - James Last had several surprisingly funky concept albums out such as the "Voodoo Party" one with a killer version of "Jingo" plus "Se A Cabo", a rare groove fave. Then we had Titanic with "Rain 2000" and "Sultana". The big switch from discotheques to the discos as we know them was of course made around 1974 and the well-known hits by Manu Dibango, Bimbo Jet, Martin Circus etc were the first actual European-produced disco sounds. Jacques Morali began to contribute early on, recording stuff like "Soul City pts 1&2 " in 1975, modelled after the MFSB tracks. And like it or not, the euro sound is now bigger than ever as dance culture is gradually making electric guitars obsolete
and good riddance

!

**Paulo** · June 11th, 2002, 04:42 AM

Jussi K

Those songs and artists you just mentioned here... is there anything re-released on CD?? Any compilation or something ??

thanks

**BrunoRepublic** · June 11th, 2002, 11:57 AM

On 2002-06-11 00:46, JussiK wrote:
Jacques Morali began to contribute early on, recording stuff like "Soul City pts 1&2 " in 1975, modelled after the MFSB tracks.

Interesting... I thought I'd found most of Morali's works, but I've never heard of this one... what name was it released under? LP or 7"? Is it similar in sound to The Ritchie Family's "Brazil" LP? What else did Morali do besides Ritchie Family at this time? Enquiring hounds want to know...

**DotBomb** · June 11th, 2002, 03:39 PM

I have a rather simplistic take on eurodisco- and disco itself. My belief is that the american contribution to disco is almost nonexistent. Disco is a european thing.

That said, I believe the true first piece of eurodisco to be released is Jumbo's Turn On To Love on PYE

**nrgbeat** · June 11th, 2002, 04:38 PM

On 2002-06-10 09:20, Funky Dude wrote:
Seeing Eurodisco is a hot topic right now, I thought I'd add this thread.

Now when did Eurodisco started? And what was considered the first Eurodisco song?

My guess the first Eurodisco songs were:
Giorgio Moroder - Son Of My Father 1972
Defranco Family - Heartbeat 1973
Donna Summer - Lady Of The Night 1974
Although these songs sound a little more rock than disco.

The Defranco Family is not Eurodisco.

I believe they are from Canada and I would consider them to be bubblegum pop like The Osmonds, Partridge Family, etc.

**markydefad** · June 11th, 2002, 04:51 PM

On 2002-06-11 16:39, DotBomb wrote:
I have a rather simplistic take on eurodisco- and disco itself. My belief is that the american contribution to disco is almost nonexistent. Disco is a european thing.

That said, I believe the true first piece of eurodisco to be released is Jumbo's Turn On To Love on PYE

Hey DotBomb,

You DID say SIMPLISTIC, didn't ya? :roll:

SIMPLE-minded, eh? :lol:

You are kidding, right?

_________________
Make My Feet Wanna Dance!

Markydefad

[ This Message was edited by: markydefad on 2002-06-11 20:20 ]

**DotBomb** · June 11th, 2002, 08:05 PM

Not in the least... and I would be more then happy to elaborate upon my points- and you can't convince me otherwise... that there was no real american contribution to disco music.

That said, I'm 19 years old, and don't know as much as I'd like. I've formed my opinions on what I've heard- I don't have massive 17,000 LP and 12" collections to refer to. I've got about 600 records and a hard drive full of mp3s on which to base my opinions. I don't mean to start a flame war here, but I am considering elaborating upon my points I've brought up. Feel free to contact me privately at the listed email address, as I would like to discuss this with you in detail- I just don't think this is a good idea to discuss my views on disco here in a public forum where (1): Most everybody here is a believer in the american disco sound and (2): Everybody thinks disco evolved out of soul/motown/R&B. So my opinions are sure to open the gates of hell on me, and I am not prepared to defend myself and my views publicly, but as I said before- you're more then welcome to discuss this with me in a private forum.

[ This Message was edited by: DotBomb on 2002-06-11 21:06 ]

**markydefad** · June 11th, 2002, 08:54 PM

Hey DotBomb,

I'd say this is the perfect place to discuss your theories. I don't necessarily wanna debate you; I'm just curious as to how you arrived at your conclusions. I mean what was Disco music BEFORE Silver Convention, Cerrone, Moroder, Midney, etc. arrived in in music stores & clubs post-1975? Besides, don't tell me that American Philly Soul and Motown wasn't danced to in the discos of Europe BEFORE and AFTER the aforementioned artists came into prominence.

I totally disagree with your theory, yet I'm curious as to how you arrived at the theory.

You did have the balls to make your statement; I gotta give ya credit for that.

It's up to you. Expound or don't expound. I just feel we would be interested in what you have to say, whether we agree or not.

_________________
Make My Feet Wanna Dance!

Markydefad

[ This Message was edited by: markydefad on 2002-06-11 21:57 ]

**JussiK** · June 12th, 2002, 12:15 AM

Naturally euros danced to Motown and Philly before disco was pronounced a trend and that's a fact. But we also moved to French and Italian tracks with that definite euro feeling so Mr. DotBomb is like half right there

. And where he is most definitely right is that in spirit disco is European. After all, it all began here! And here it is that it continued to live after faddish US public turned to new wave and returned to country & western and whatnot. And here it is that it continues to thrive! Sounding terribly eurocentric I know...
Graham, it was a 7". Early on Morali also put out "Lido Girls", a disco revue performed (?) by the showgirls of the Parisian cabaret.
The superb KISS KISS BANG BANG is available on numerous cd compliations, pick up the BEAT IN CINECITTA series (Crippled Dick label) or OUR MAN FROM R.O.M.E.

**Blaxman** · June 12th, 2002, 06:24 AM

On 2002-06-11 21:05, DotBomb wrote:

...I'm 19 years old...

Dot, you're welcome to this forum exactly to "fight" for your point of view. Now let's be clear, the disco roots are not in Europe, no way. Disco starts in the early 70's with Motown, Stax, etc, etc,etc, But one thing it's not clear to me:

What is Disco Music to you?

Peace.

**Funky Dude** · June 12th, 2002, 07:01 AM

DotBomb. In regards to your theory, the way I see it I reckon what is called disco is dependent on the individual. I'm guessing that you see disco as more on the lines of Cerrone, Telex, Giorgio with the electronic techno sound, correct me if I'm wrong.

But how I see disco it has a combination of various styles such as electronic, salsa, funk, R&B, soul, and a bit of rock here and there. The way I see it is Europe's contribution to disco is the high-tech electronic sound around 1977 onwards although the songs prior to 1977 had more of a soulful funky sound, and USA's contribution is the funk and soul flavour. And the latin salsa sound has been a big influence in both Europe and USA disco. But even what I'm saying is not always true, but that's my theory, correct me if I'm wrong anyone. Now listening to the British disco groups like Olympic Runners, Osibisa, Tina Charles, Delegation, from what I gather there is a big influence of soul/funk/R&B. And Australian disco groups (there aren't many) our groups were influenced by soul/funk/pop and even rock music. Those are just my theories so anyone correct me if I'm wrong.

Now I for one see that USA made a HUGE contribution to what is known as disco right from the early 70's with songs such as "If There's Hell Below" by Curtis Mayfield, "Theme From Shaft" by Isaac Hayes, "Armed & Extremely Dangerous" by First Choice, "She's A Winner" by the Intruders, "Once You Get Started" by Rufus & Chaka Khan, "That Old Black Magic" by Softones, "Movin'" by the Brass Construction, to the later days (late 70's/early 80's) such as "Keep On Dancing" by Gary's Gang", "Everybody Have A Good Time" by Archie Bell & The Drells, "You're So Right For Me" by Eastside Connection and loads more.

It all depends on what you call disco.

**Blaxman** · June 12th, 2002, 07:18 AM

On 2002-06-12 08:01, Funky Dude wrote:

It all depends on what you call disco.]

Funky, I agree with you in ALMOST everything you said. But I disagree about the quote above. We cant choose what we would like to call disco. Disco music has your own characteristics, it's really hard to define it (it's quite blended musical genre) but, it's possible feel it. You know what I mean?

I cant call disco just the songs/artists that I like or that I know. There's a clear definition to disco at Allmusic.

Peace, Dude.

_________________
SENHORES DO GROOVE - BRAZIL

[ This Message was edited by: Blaxman on 2002-06-12 08:20 ]

**zeca azevedo** · June 12th, 2002, 08:47 AM

Hey guys,

what's the name of this topic? WHEN EURODISCO WAS BORN? I think we can change the name of the topic: WHERE DISCO MUSIC WAS BORN? I have my own opinion about this whole thing: DISCO was born on PLANET EARTH, you EARTHLINGS!(LOL)

Peace, terráqueos!

zeca azevedo

**Blaxman** · June 12th, 2002, 08:51 AM

That's it!!!!!!!
It's so obvious EUROdisco was born in EUROPE......of course! :lol:

**DotBomb** · June 12th, 2002, 09:45 AM

On 2002-06-12 08:01, Funky Dude wrote:
DotBomb. In regards to your theory, the way I see it I reckon what is called disco is dependent on the individual. I'm guessing that you see disco as more on the lines of Cerrone, Telex, Giorgio with the electronic techno sound, correct me if I'm wrong.

Yer wrong! I see eurodisco as Costandinos, Midney, Cerrone, Leroy Gomez, Jacques Fred Petrus, Azoto (I think that was Giancarlo Meo. Correct me if I'm wrong).... essentially, melodic and driving orchestral disco lacking soul.

But how I see disco it has a combination of various styles such as electronic, salsa, funk, R&B, soul, and a bit of rock here and there. The way I see it is Europe's contribution to disco is the high-tech electronic sound around 1977 onwards although the songs prior to 1977 had more of a soulful funky sound, and USA's contribution is the funk and soul flavour. And the latin salsa sound has been a big influence in both Europe and USA disco. But even what I'm saying is not always true, but that's my theory, correct me if I'm wrong anyone. Now listening to the British disco groups like Olympic Runners, Osibisa, Tina Charles, Delegation, from what I gather there is a big influence of soul/funk/R&B. And Australian disco groups (there aren't many) our groups were influenced by soul/funk/pop and even rock music. Those are just my theories so anyone correct me if I'm wrong.

And you're certainly welcome to your ideas- I consider there to be a big difference between british disco and eurodisco.

As far as I see, there wasn't much before 1975 that made it accross the pond to Europe. Now, you have Cerrone and Costandinos collaborating together, without the american sound to draw from, to create the epic piece, "Love In C Minor".

Moroder had already put out "Love To Love You Baby" so the long tracks were already established, but it being a european production, it saw widespread distribution within europe.

With the lack of communication and record exchanges accross the atlantic ocean, this mostly developed fully independent of one another. The american disco of this period has a strong motown/soul influence, and it is a stretch to call it danceable.

Love In C Minor, which is a 1975 production (NOT 1976 or 1977!!! Copies pressed by Cerrone himself in England appeared and were circulated around France in the later part of 1975) had virtually no motown or soul influence, and in fact bears very little resemblence to even the european tracks (Moroder's Love To Love You Baby and Jumbo's Turn On To Love) of the time.

Love In C Minor established a faster BPM, a no nonsense beat, and above all... lacks soul. There's no black music influence here! Love In C Minor, and most every piece of eurodisco afterwards, is... an outgrowth of Loungecore and Jazz.

The european influence trickled over to the Americas, and we started getting producers like Tony Valor producing very european tracks (Jeanne Napoli for example of 1977, shortly after Cerrone appeared in the US), and also imported from France, but actually a Canadian production, Baciotti's Black Jack. Love & Kisses got an american release in '77, as did Sphinx, Cerrone's Paradise and Supernature.

Rinder & Lewis adopted the European sound, as did most other decent producers in the US.

There were two distinct types of american disco after 1977- the all american black band type, and 'european emulation' type. 1978 was an absolutely glorious year- virtually everything that ever hit the clubs had adopted the european influence.

In 1979... it started branching off. European disco and American disco. The american disco essentially retained a similar sound to 1977 era eurodisco, whereas Eurodisco became progressive, and we started seeing more electronics in the tracks.

My time is short now, so I'll just post what I have- I have another long piece on european disco versus electronic.

By the way... it's not Mr. DotBomb. And I know there aren't many 19 year old female disco lovers out there, but you men have finally met your match.

[ This Message was edited by: DotBomb on 2002-06-12 10:48 ]

**Blaxman** · June 12th, 2002, 10:18 AM

On 2002-06-12 10:45, DotBomb wrote:

....Love In C Minor established a faster BPM, a no nonsense beat, and above all... lacks soul. There's no black music influence here! Love In C Minor, and most every piece of eurodisco afterwards, is... an outgrowth of Loungecore and Jazz.....

Based on this you think that "disco is a european thing"???? :???:

Did you know that Jazz is a "ancient" american black musical genre? :???:

Did you know? The first man to step on the moon................wasn't Michael Jackson? :???:

BTW, I like that "moonwalking" dance.

Just my two cents.

**Funky Dude** · June 12th, 2002, 10:30 AM

DotBomb wrote:
By the way... it's not Mr. DotBomb. And I know there aren't many 19 year old female disco lovers out there, but you men have finally met your match.

It's nice to see more young people getting into disco music. I myself am 20 and from Australia and I've been into disco since I was 13, at that time I only knew the mainstream stuff but later discovered a lot of really rare underground funk and disco music.

Anyhow welcome to the board.

**DotBomb** · June 12th, 2002, 11:25 AM

On 2002-06-12 11:18, Blaxman wrote:

Based on this you think that "disco is a european thing"???? :???:

Did you know that Jazz is a "ancient" american black musical genre? :???:

Did you know? The first man to step on the moon................wasn't Michael Jackson? :???:

BTW, I like that "moonwalking" dance.

Just my two cents.

Why are you bringing Michael Jackson into this?

Jazz branched off in the 50s... there's white jazz and black jazz... not being somebody who knows Jazz well, I am hard pressed to put a name to each style... but, I am going on what I know here. Two types of Jazz... and Big Band isn't one of them

**DotBomb** · June 12th, 2002, 11:29 AM

Now, I have been asked to elaborate more on the evolution of eurodisco.

What I consider to be eurodisco (Costandinos, some Moroder, some Cerrone, Midney, Valor, Soussain) is a completely
different monster to electronic disco (most Moroder, and a bunch of other one-off guys). Now, you're probably thinking, well, some of the eurodisco she classified is clearly electronic. Yeah, definitely. Point in case- Massara- Margharita is eurodisco and does not fall under the Electronic spectrum. Something widely held to be eurodisco, Baciotti's Black Jack, is electronic, and I class it in the electronic category. I suppose my classifications here are purely my own, and it would be hard to come up with a uniform standard for classificiation, but I tend to class things one way or another as to whether or not they have a critical mass of electronics featured. Massara- Margharita is fully electronic... but it lacks the critical mass, because it's not layered so heavilly as to not mix in and be workable with other non-electronic pieces of the day. To carry it a bit further, melodic pieces that are electronic, versus many which are monotone and feature a more clear song layout, are eurodisco.

To compare... Martin Circus' "Before It Gets Dark" (eurodisco) to Moroder's "From Here To Eternity" (electronic)... Eternity is much more melodic and much heavier on the electronics then Before it Gets Dark. To give a more conventional disco explanantion... Goody Goody- It Looks Like Love (eurodisco) is the monotone piece whereas Love & Kisses- I've Found Love is clearly the more melodic of the two. Also, the critical mass doesn't apply to 'heavy' electronics usage. Midney's Double Discovery- D-D-Dance of 1982 is clearly all heavy electronics, but still classes eurodisco because of the presentation of it. Moroder tried to be electronic and show all his toys off. Midney tried to use electronics in place of actual instruments.

I am by no means an expert on electronic disco, as I've tended to avoid it like the plague. I don't like electronic disco... never have, and never will. I will always love eurodisco. I draw the line at the 'mass' of electronics, and the weight of them, and the presentation of them. What I am about to say here may lead to more confusion then the previous paragraphs did, but I must say it- grit. Electronics 'grit'. Moroder's and most others who wanted an electronic piece tended to play those with gritty tones, whereas eurodisco producers attempted to keep the notes smooth.

Costandinos' Paris Connection, or the BRILLIANT Golden Tears drum/bass/electronics run up is an example of trying not to use Moroder grit.

Patrick Cowley didn't have that gritty electronics sound- now, I don't class him eurodisco, I class him hi-NRG. Again, musical arrangements and theme have everything to do with being called this or that. However, we must not ignore the fact that disco is a deeply spiritual and personal adventure for everybody deeply involved- and these are simply my conclusions here.

Again, please- don't start a flame war... I want to keep this intelligent.