Disco-poll

[Videoskooter]

When reading the topics about copying music and MP3's, I discovered that some people are against it but find it difficult to resist when they are looking for songs they can't find in the shops.

Are recordcompanies putting out enough vintage stuff on the market or are they playing safe by mostly bringing out the "better-known-stuff".

For instance, I'm thinking about Costandinos who's music is almost unavailable on cd.

Do you want recordfirms to release more original classics?

[Bernie]

No, the record labels are not putting out enough vintage material and when they do it, they are playing it safe. Also the quality of the audio and the use of the original extended versions tend to be highly elusive.

If the labels would re-release all this material as legal downloads on say Apple's iTunes, the cost to them would be minimal and we would once again be able to enjoy all this great music. It's just a matter of time as it is already happening with Motown and others earlier this year releasing quite a bit of rare material for inclusion into iTunes.

As for Costandinos, it is not the labels, but HE who doesn't want to re-release his material.

[Videoskooter]

As for Costandinos, it is not the labels, but HE who doesn't want to re-release his material.

Than he's surely breaking a lot of hearts. Is he ashamed for what he composed? He's absolutely wrong then.

Alec, if you read this: We are willing and able and eagerly a-waiting!!

PLLLLLLLLLZZZZZEEE (or is it pleaSe?)

[Spellbound]

most of the label people right now are generation x people (born in 1965-1976)

of course they are not the ones at the very top but they are the ones who make most of the choices

well this post is proof that they are not as smart and bright as they think they are when it comes to music

as far as life in general a lot of generation x people do think that they are the **** and think they are the greatest generation ever

[Spellbound]

the current sad state of popular music can be attributed to them

1965-1976 is the official time period categorized for them but myself personally would categorize them from the late 60's - late 70's

[Spellbound]

does anybody remember this? well a lot of what happened can be associated with generation x and beyond...

Winter Music Conference Organizers Try to Muzzle Disco Innovator
World's first disco television producer bows out after being told to "be objective"

Press release
March 25, 2002

For Immediate Release

MIAMI, March 25, 2002. In what has transpired into a war of words Marty Angelo, creator, producer, and writer of Disco Step-by-Step ™, the world's first disco dance television show, announced today that he would not continue to seek participation in any discussion panels at this year's Winter Music Conference.

"I submitted my credentials to the panel coordinator back in early January of this year," stated Angelo. "No one ever got back to me, so I resubmitted them again a few weeks later and still no one even called to say yes or no. That got me wondering."

Angelo sent numerous emails and faxes to the Winter Music Conference and finally did hear from newly appointed panel coordinator, Frank Ceraolo. He apologized about the lack of communication, stating his paperwork must have gotten lost, but was interested in having Angelo speak on a Marketing/ Promo panel. Then after a week of no communication at all, Angelo re-emailed Ceraolo, and to his dismay, was told by Ceraolo: "I am a "little" concerned about you being part of the Promo panel, because of your company name....people 'above' me have expressed concern that the moniker "DISCO" is a little "outdated"."

Angelo responded back to Ceraolo explaining the word disco should not be a cause of concern. Ceraolo fired back an email to Angelo, which stated: "I really do not want you to go off about the 'disco' thing, because OTHERS are just as sensitive-- and you know why. I am not embarrassed about DISCO...I love it personally. However, others here (above me) are more 'sensitive'. You let me know what your thoughts are, and if you can be 'objective', let's put this to bed."

Angelo, whose roots are drenched in the disco field, was one of the original members of various disco Dj organizations such as: New York Disco Record Pool and the International Disco Record Centre. He was founder of the Buffalo New York Disco Record Pool and in the late '70s produced the world's first all disco dance television show. Angelo also produced and hosted two live disco radio shows, was a correspondent to Billboard Magazine, Cashbox, Disco News and Record World, and in 1979 helped organize the first, still on-going, annual event: "The World's Largest Disco" … which according to The Guinness Book of World Records confirmed that the crowd of 13,000 made the first event the largest disco event of all time.

Angelo's music business background also goes back even before the disco era when he managed various successful rock bands, promoted concerts, and produced records. He and former Beatle, George Harrison and rock legend, Jimi Hendrix discovered a group from Buffalo New York called the Raven. Angelo also managed the popular '60s band, The Grass Roots, and traveled around the world working with just about every major band.

"I think an organization who specializes in promoting mainly dance music should be ashamed of themselves for this type of behavior," Angelo remarked. "It is one thing to not be on any panels but to ask me to be 'objective' in using the word 'disco' … is a bit too much for me to handle. Whatever happened to our primary constitutional right: "freedom of speech?"

"Disco never died or disappeared … it evolved into the dance music that we have today, and one of the very reasons why there is even a Winter Music Conference in the first place! They boast that over 6500 music industry professionals and enthusiasts from around the world will converge in Miami Beach. Representatives from over 60 countries were in attendance last year including executives from major and independent record labels, publishers, promoters, managers, agents, artists, DJs, remixers, producers, radio and video programmers, retailers, Internet companies, equipment hardware and software manufacturers, as well as media from around the world.

"Last year I actually placed a 1/4 page display advertisement in WMC's attendee directory. I gave them over $600 for that ad and no one.. not one person … ever complained or objected that I not use my company name in that ad. This is some kind of double standard.

"These people are making a small fortune off of an industry which disco helped start. I would think the attendees would love to hear about the era, which still feeds them. There are not many disco innovators still alive yet alone willing to talk about such a controversial subject.

"Where do we live, Nazi Germany? The old Soviet Union? China? Cuba? Afghanistan?" Angelo asked the Winter Music Conference panel coordinator. "Why are you are trying to control what I say just because you do not like a particular "word" which is the very word that continues to put money in people's pockets and food on their tables?"

"Now I know what Afghanistan women must feel like when they are forced to wear 'Burqas' (veils to cover their faces and bodies.) just because they are women. I know it maybe stretching this a bit … but in a small way I can understand discrimination and stupidity a bit better today than yesterday."

Angelo points to his website, http://www.discostepbystep.com, which he designed for historical purposes, stating: "If you look on my website you will find a page called: "Did Disco Die?" (http://www.discostepbystep.com/did_disco_die.htm)

And on that page is a list of 48 different names of today's dance music genre. Each name can 'only' go back as far as the word 'disco'. They all started AFTER the original disco era… from '2Step to US Techno' … every single one of the dance music genre's listed is rooted in disco … Just because some people "expressed concerned" about the word DISCO does not give them the right to muzzle people who want to point back to it and give credit where credit is do. How dare they try to control what people say.

"Shall we just sweep the entire disco movement under the rug, and pretend it did not exist? Steve Dahl, a rock music radio station disc jockey tried to kill disco in Chicago back in 1979 when he promoted "A Disco Demolition Night" at Comiskey Park, but that did not work. All disco did was reproduce itself into hundreds of smaller genres.

"Suppose rock and roll innovators Wolfman Jack or Alan Freeman were still alive today, (not that I think I am on same level as them) would the WMC say to them: 'You can participate on a panel but because you promoted early rock and roll music be 'objective' talking about it. You can be on a panel but we will not use your company name: 'rock and roll'. I am sure there would be plenty of people who would want to hear what they had to say at a winter music conference. How could people not be interested in hearing from the very innovators who started a business they are still making money in?"

Angelo tried continuously to reason with Ceraolo until he received Ceraolo's final email response stating: "Look, I really don't have time for this. I have tried to do my best...but I do not need someone who is going to complain, 'bitch' or moan about concerns that are not my own. I have a job to do...and at this point, this has become too "high maintenance" for me. I am sorry that you could not be 'satisfied' with what I was trying to do. You should be proud of your company and its accomplishments, but I am not going to get into a 'debate' or argument with you about any of this."

When asked how he felt by Ceraolo's remarks, Angelo responded: "I am totally insulted, ashamed, and angry that this whole thing has turned out like this. But you know something? I am not surprised … because people in the music business have not changed very much over the years, they still like to... eat their young!

"To comply with the WMC's demands would mean to take a seat in the back of the bus and our founding fathers fought too hard for me not to stand up to this freedom of speech infringement. I prefer to bow out of this controversy instead of giving into a 'Sieg Heil' mentality! I am tired of seeing our freedoms slowly deteriorate."

if the music itself is having trouble and a hard enough time gaining respect and recognition from within its very own dance community...

what would make one think that the music would receive any better treatment from the record label outsiders?

especially from the larger recordfirms

[DiscoMan]

It's the labels and the management of those labels (exception of Alec). IMO there are a few factors involved here: Number 1 they are ignorant of the old stuff and Number 2 and probably most importantly; by severely limiting or preventing the old music that's converted to cd they think they are forcing people to buy the NEW **** they're peddling. Ignoring the fact of people working around their roadblocks - MP3, cd burning etc. and then threatening people with lawsuits when they do copy.

The new **** is that - just ****!
The record labels suck.

[Rab]

I honestly think the record companies would not re-release because they believe there is so little market for it. I think most people born after let's say 1962-1964 are oblivious to the majority of the disco that peaked during the mid to late 1970's. I suspect that down the road the buyer segments for this material will become so small a lot of those prices on ebay might start trickling down, but it won't happen for awhile. If you noticed, a lot of the buyers now are from Europe.

Truthfully, while this might seem naive, I don't think the labels would do anything about anyone pirating, or selling remixed material unless, let's say, out of the clear blue a new market began to emerge. I don't think it's worth their time. They might not even mind the idea, thinking it could end up being good for business.

All these represses that have sprung up out of nowhere being sold in the inner city record shops I doubt are legal; a lot of times they don't even spell the name of the artist or the title correctly.

It's really amazing what's being "stolen" nowadays. I was just in an Old Navy store and the song playing sounded so familiar? Then I realized at least half of the rif was stolen from Voyage's "From East to West". There is no talent out there, just a bunch of ripoffs.

[Rab]

It's the labels and the management of those labels (exception of Alec). IMO there are a few factors involved here: Number 1 they are ignorant of the old stuff and Number 2 and probably most importantly; by severely limiting or preventing the old music that's converted to cd they think they are forcing people to buy the NEW **** they're peddling. Ignoring the fact of people working around their roadblocks - MP3, cd burning etc. and then threatening people with lawsuits when they do copy.

The new **** is that - just ****!
The record labels suck.

You know Discoman, VinylConnection in Boston is going out of business just in case your looking for anything good. I think this is the only store we have left in Mass that sells such an abundance of old disco...

[markydefad]

I'm having the most success finding obscure stuff on these import, mostly British, compilations. Luckily, I live in a major city that has stores that stock imports...but I'd say if anyone is gonna rescue the underground classics of the Seventies it will be the Brits. And their compilations are relatively cheap, too.

This "Nicky Siano's The Gallery" has 17 tracks; I'd say 13 of em are quite rare. It's lovingly packaged with photos and interesting liner notes. The same goes for the Norman Jay Presents Philadelphia CD. This one has 2 discs for $18.98!!!

So, with each year that goes by, I'm finding obscure stuff I've only read about in books on the old days of disco.

I would agree, however, that it would be great if the record labels that control the copyrights on this stuff would make it available for downloading for a fair price. If they don't wanna release it on cd--give folks a chance to d/l it.

But, I do think it's getting better. I've found stuff recently that never crossed my path before. And that's a good thing.

[Rab]

But, I do think it's getting better. I've found stuff recently that never crossed my path before. And that's a good thing.

I love finding new material from the heyday, that passed me by. It is amazing just how much material came out from just 1977 to 1979. In the past I would assume I was familiar with just about every disco song that was out, then would discover another rare find.

[markydefad]

Rab,

I find I'm constantly reading about records here and elsewhere that I never heard of before. So my consciousness has been raised to what I would previously probably ignored or glossed over. Now I read the table of contents of all those import cds...looking for gems. And there's tons of records that were revered as "Northern Soul" that I haven't a clue about. I can't buy everything, but I'm always on the lookout for certain titles that I've read about in the Billboard charts or tips from other members here.

But it does help to live in a big city. Otherewise, I guess the internet would be the best source of rare stuff. I've heard Amazon UK is a great source---but I guess you gotta know what you're looking for and that can take a lotta research. I use AMG a lot--but they don't currently list the 2 imports I wrote about above. But I do song searches on lotsa titles there to see if they were ever included in any compilation. Quite often, I've been able to go the Amoeba and find the exact compilation with the song in question on it. Ain't that sweet, as the kidz would say?

[Spellbound]

generation x people like puff daddy are of the root of all evil

generation x and all of their sampling (all styles of music) i guess they cannot produce an original song and when they try to it sucks

r&b singers dont even have to be able to sing if they are going to be auditioning in front of generation x record label reps... they can completely suck and still get signed...

i can only imagine the conversations between the generation x label reps

"well she cant sing but she looks good and is very attractive and all the major flaws with her voice can easily be covered up in the studio"

generation x is currently ruining hip hop with all of their fake corporate hip hop

even in rock there are a lot of bands coming out with retro style, image and advertising gimmicks

i know all of the recent pop punk emo trash definitely has a generation x member pulling all of the strings behind the scenes

i remember talking to a former disco DJ here in washington dc and asked him what he thought about disco house/nu disco and his reply was simple... "theft"

generation x the group with not much talent and so therefore they steal from the past

selling nothing but trash and garbage to the younger generations

this whole idea of being famous and being a star without really doing **** started with them as well

[markydefad]

Spellbound,

OK, I get it. You HATE GEN-X'ers!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Now, if I remember correctly you are very young, twentyish or thereabouts?

I am from the Baby Boomer generation. Old...not retirement village, dinner at 5:00 PM, Miami Beach OLD, but.... well I still have that to look forward to. :oops:

But, I agree....that something happened to music around 1990 that just killed the creativity that had been so abundant before. Rap & grunge ruined R&B and rock music--robbing it of melody and hooks in favor of formulaic "beats" and "screaming sludge." The "sampling"/theft of music from the past by people that weren't "musicians" became rampant. Cretins who couldn't write a musical hook or a great bassline if their life depended upon it... lifted it off someone else's record and talked over it. And they got away with it!!! They had HITS!!!! P. Shiddy, you are soooooooooooooooooooooo busted. :evil: :evil: :evil:

Dance music was dumbed down to just a beat...no song...maybe a phrase if you were lucky as a chorus. totally reptivitive...one song blended into another as if it were the same song...because it WAS!!!! :evil:

And people just accepted it. :o :o :o :evil: :evil: :evil:

Every so often I get the feeling that there are new "musicians" out there that have the creativity to actually make good music. But, they seem few and far between. But, luckily, the great music of the past is still out there to be enjoyed.

Maybe your generation...are you Y or are we up to Z??? Yikes, we've run outta alphabet labels!!!???? :lol:

[QUINNY]

Well, for my money I'm amazed at how much old material HAS been released on CD and there are still compilations coming out with rare tracks. In fact, nowadays, many compilations only feature lotsa relatively rare/obscure tracks.