Did freestyle get much play in gay clubs?

[nrgbeat]

I'm thinking of songs like "Silent Morning", "Spring Love" etc.

[NickNack]

I'm thinking of songs like "Silent Morning", "Spring Love" etc.

I can only speak for where I played/hung out and the answer would be know. The sound was 'thin' and blatantly missing that 'club 4/4' sound. Personally, I took the genre as just another way to get away from 'disco'. By that, I mean the same way I took 'new wave' as pulling away from the R&B influenced club sound and changing it to Rock.

I have quite a few freestyle pieces because it was promoted but I didn't play the bulk of them. Don't even know the artists by name, to be truthful.

[sfbeary]

i didn't hear much freestyle in nyc gay clubs - only a few particular records.

the one that was played the most in my experience was
Shannon - "Let the Music Play" - that one crossed all boundaries, particularly because it came out early in the game before most people thought about latin freestyle as a genre. Shannon was even played at the Saint, which tended to avoid anything considered "street" - often DJs would play the instrumental version of records that were on the borderlines of NRG and new wave or NRG and funk.

i also heard Expose's "Point of No Return" at Better Days, but this was before Arista picked it up. the original label credit was X-Posed.

one of the sad facts about many clubs gay or straight is that they tend to pursue a white audience and actively work to exclude anyone whose presence might present a threat to their core audience. this isn't as true today, but gay clubs in the '80s were to differing degrees guilty of this policy.

i once interviewed Sylvester, who said that he sometimes got hassled at the door to some clubs and asked for multiple forms of ID or was faulted for his open-toed shoes when they didn't know who he was.

i'd love to hear NickNack and other djs weigh in on this topic.

[SandraDee]

I seem to remember that that Shannon-type stuff was called Latin hip-hop in the UK in the mid 80s. The clubs I attended around that time in the UK played alot of that sound - stuff like Freeez's 'IOU', Nuance's 'Love Ride', Joyce Sims' 'All n All', Taylor Dayne's 'Tell It To My Heart' & Jellybean's 'Who Found Who'. Am I on the right track re 'Freestyle'?

[sfbeary]

hey steely dan,

i'd consider most of the records that you mentioned were mostly just outside the borderline of freestyle and pop or R&B or "club," although the freestyle connection is certainly there. freeez's "iou," for example, certainly went on to influence the freestyle sound, but was very much a hybrid, as the basic track was recorded by a british act and then transformed in the production and mix to a sound that would form the blueprint for freestlyle. i'd call the Jellybean record you mentioned pop-dance or "club" and not freestyle, even though Benitez was of course latin and helped create the style (he mixed "iou").

more typical latin freestyle acts would be The Cover Girls,
TKA, Corina, Sa-Fire, Sweet Sensation, Lisa Lisa & Cult Jam - i'm citing some of the most popular acts so you might get a sense of what i mean, but even these groups were very much crossover in terms of having pop hits in America.

as time went on, many of these acts had freestyle mixes on one side of the 12", and house mixes on the other. Sequal, for example, were first known as a freestyle act, and then tried to cross over with a PWL song/production, "Tell Him I Called," which flopped in America.

[NickNack]

one of the sad facts about many clubs gay or straight is that they tend to pursue a white audience and actively work to exclude anyone whose presence might present a threat to their core audience. this isn't as true today, but gay clubs in the '80s were to differing degrees guilty of this policy.

i once interviewed Sylvester, who said that he sometimes got hassled at the door to some clubs and asked for multiple forms of ID or was faulted for his open-toed shoes when they didn't know who he was.

i'd love to hear NickNack and other djs weigh in on this topic.

Barry,

Love to weigh in, but not here, for the sake of nrgbeat's topic. So, we should look for this elsewhere...

[NickNack]

Freeez's 'IOU', Nuance's 'Love Ride', Joyce Sims' 'All n All', Taylor Dayne's 'Tell It To My Heart' & Jellybean's 'Who Found Who'. Am I on the right track re 'Freestyle'?

I played 4 out of 5, and all of Shannon. Guess the label 'freestyle' didn't bother me early on. :)

[nrgbeat]

Another song that probably got gay play was "Fascinated" by Company B. Kind of a Freestyle-NRG hybrid.

[SandraDee]

Sequal, for example, were first known as a freestyle act, and then tried to cross over with a PWL song/production, "Tell Him I Called," which flopped in America.

I didn't know Sequal were a Freestyle act; I've got that 'Tell Him I Called' (as I'm a total PWL devotee!) & I love it. It wasn't a hit here in the UK either which is a pity 'cos far inferior PWL tracks were hits. Thanx for the info sfbeary, I always wondered what freestyle was.

[SandraDee]

Another song that probably got gay play was "Fascinated" by Company B. Kind of a Freestyle-NRG hybrid.

I absolutely love this record; it always reminds me of when I started going to gay clubs in '86 along with Jennifer Holliday's 'No Frills Love'(Arthur Baker mix) & Taffy's 'I Love My Radio'. Happy days. :P

[sfbeary]

oooh yes, "facinated" was a biggie and played just about anywhere. i'm sure the nrg clubs considered that an nrg record and the freestyle clubs considered it a freestyle record.

i have a subsequent Company B record, "Signed in Your Book of Love," that was one of the first promo-only 2x12" sets because Atlantic were keen to pursue both the freestyle and nrg markets and felt by that time that they had to do it with separate mixes. the record flopped, despite the money they put into it.

i'm listening to it right now - the "house" mix is pretty awful. so is the "street" mix, which is the most freestyle version. the "club" mix is actually the best and most like "fascinated" — and closest to the original LP version!

thinking more about this topic - there were some records that most people would consider funk or NRG or new wave that were big at The Funhouse, which was the taste-making freestyle club of nyc.

examples:

It's Just Begun - Jimmy Castor (funk)
Roll - Macho (Italian disco/NRG)
Information Society - Running (new wave)
B-Movie - A Letter From Afar (new wave)
Section 25 - Looking From a Hilltop (new wave)

I'm pretty sure the early Lime 12"s were big there also.

[sfbeary]

i also thought of another freestyle/NRG connection:

if a freestyle record wasn't made in and around new york, then it was usually made in miami, which was one of the few American cities (chicago included) where you'd hear 100% bonafide NRG records in straight clubs.

capitol records once flew me from nyc to miami to meet Sequal and see them perform in a nice, big Miami club in the trendy part of town. i remember the sound of the night was defined by that early house/nrg hybrid sound by S-Express, Blue Mercedes, and the "house" mixes of freestyle artists.

then the next night they took me to a small dive in what was obviously the suburbs - one of those clubs that operate in strip malls. and who do you think i saw there? - HAZELL DEAN, who was certainly mainstream in the UK, but was unknown to most places in america beyond her very gay following. i don't think there was a gay person in this club, and yet the crows was cheering for every song and obviously knew them all, even the gay gay gay ones like "searchin' (i gotta find a man)." this was because miami had radio stations that would play her, and the clubs were just the same. a similar thing happened in chicago with different artists. that rule-breaking is what helps create new scenes and styles.

[NickNack]

Another song that probably got gay play was "Fascinated" by Company B. Kind of a Freestyle-NRG hybrid.

If more freestyle sounded like this I'd have played it to death! I am absolutely nuts for this song, even to this day. This for me was one of the best pieces of dance music in the 80s. And wasn't it Ish, from Foxy, at the helm?

UH, GET OFF! GET, GET OFF! :D :D

[efunk_adelic]

I seem to remember that that Shannon-type stuff was called Latin hip-hop in the UK in the mid 80s. The clubs I attended around that time in the UK played alot of that sound - stuff like Freeez's 'IOU', Nuance's 'Love Ride', Joyce Sims' 'All n All', Taylor Dayne's 'Tell It To My Heart' & Jellybean's 'Who Found Who'. Am I on the right track re 'Freestyle'?

With the exception of JELLYBEAN'S - WHO FOUND WHO' (which I never heard) all good songs..

we don't talk enough about these mid 80's jams. :-?

[nrgbeat]

"Who Found Who" I believe was Jellybean feat. Elissa Fiorillo.

[Mixmachine]

Yes , Miami played lots of High energy music in straight clubs, many songs mentioned here before as Gay fave where hits in local straight clubs, “Searching” by Hazel Dean was a huge straight club hit, and unless you frequented Gay clubs or kept up with Club Life details you wouldn’t know of the different take on the lyrics.

In the mid 80’s ‘Freestyle “ was huge in Miami clubs, and just about every act performed at local clubs like Casanovas, Infinity, Parallel Bar and many others, at the same time Gay clubs almost exclusively played high energy and the instrumental of certain cuts, some mentioned here. As House music began to creep in (around 85) local Gay clubs began to heavily play this new sound, I used to check out the charts turned in the Pool and Gay club Djs played many obscure underground house music and the ‘House’ or ‘Dub” mix of many others that were not popular nor played in most straight clubs yet

Another song that probably got gay play was "Fascinated" by Company B. Kind of a Freestyle-NRG hybrid.

If more freestyle sounded like this I'd have played it to death! I am absolutely nuts for this song, even to this day. This for me was one of the best pieces of dance music in the 80s. And wasn't it Ish, from Foxy, at the helm?

UH, GET OFF! GET, GET OFF! :D :D

Yes this was produced by Ish Ledesma and was mixed by Ciro, one of Casanovas’ Djs, another similar song produced by Ish was “Something tells me” (this will be the night) by Tiger Moon, used in the classic “Blue Parrot” (white lady) scene in the flick “Frantic”. I consider them a stepping stone to 'House'

[totoman]

I've never really understood what freestyle was, it wasn't a phrase used here - but I loved No Frills Love, I never heard it enough.

toto

[NickNack]

Yes this was produced by Ish Ledesma and was mixed by Ciro, one of Casanovas’ Djs, another similar song produced by Ish was “Something tells me” (this will be the night) by Tiger Moon, used in the classic “Blue Parrot” (white lady) scene in the flick “Frantic”. I consider them a stepping stone to 'House'

There you go! 'Something Tells Me' I was into Ish cause I surely played Tiger Moon. I remember Diane Rhoads working this one at the M&K in Asbury Park, NJ. Man, she had such fun behind the tables it was infectious.

Back to topic: To me, Tiger Moon and Company B are not 'freestyle', or not what I considered freestyle. Elements are there but Ish kept that 'bass for club' sound in there which most freestyle avoided.

[nrgbeat]

While we're on the subject of "Fascinated". There's a version of Bananarama's "I Heard A Rumor" which uses the intro to "Fascinated".

[efunk_adelic]

Mixmachine,


forgive me for saying this..... Freestyle music has an 808 beat. These artists are considered Freestyle.



Freestyle
Egyptian Lover
Soul Sonic Force


etc. etc. etc.

Company B should be just considered 80's latest style of disco/dance. Let's get some other opinions.

[Mixmachine]

Mixmachine,
forgive me for saying this..... Freestyle music has an 808 beat. These artists are considered Freestyle.
Freestyle
Egyptian Lover
Soul Sonic Force
etc. etc. etc.
Company B should be just considered 80's latest style of disco/dance. Let's get some other opinions.

HuH, What did I say? :roll:

[nrgbeat]

Mixmachine,


forgive me for saying this..... Freestyle music has an 808 beat. These artists are considered Freestyle.



Freestyle
Egyptian Lover
Soul Sonic Force


etc. etc. etc.

Company B should be just considered 80's latest style of disco/dance. Let's get some other opinions.

Let's not get into this debate in this thread. I said Company B was a Freestyle-NRG hybrid.

[efunk_adelic]

sorry

[Rab]

Most gay clubs are as diverse as straight clubs. Music changed with the times, and as disco faded, new styles of music that were int style became integrated.

[Discovery]

i once interviewed Sylvester, who said that he sometimes got hassled at the door to some clubs and asked for multiple forms of ID or was faulted for his open-toed shoes when they didn't know who he was.

I'd like to hear more about sfbeary's interview with Sylvester.