Lost Aretha disco tracks by Chic

**Nano** · May 12th, 2002, 03:27 PM

Hey, Chic and Diana Ross keep coming up in the forum and that make me think of the Rodgers/Edwards produced tracks for Diana on her B&W 1980 LP, "Upside down" and "I'm coming out" (correct me if there are more tracks, I believe it's only these two).
I read on some places over the years that these two tracks had been written for Aretha Franklin, been recorded and then rejected by her, and then offered to Diana. Even someone dared to suggest the Aretha-voiced recordings were on someone's vaults (this came up on the liner notes of a Rhino compilation, I think).
Well, some months ago I found a copy of Aretha's "autobiography" written by David Ritz. Didn't buy it because Ms. Franklin doesn't say much on it (for example, she denies a well-known incident on her first Atlantic recording on Muscle Shoals). I looked for the Chic incident and for what she says (about two paragraphs) she clashed with R/E before the actual recording, which supposedly never took place. This because R/E offered her the track already done for her to put the vocal only, not participating in the production as she wished (this coming from a lady earlier produced by Quincy Jones and Curtis Mayfield! Come on...)
So, I wonder if the Aretha-voiced recordings really exist. Does anyone in this forum heard them, or has a copy of them anywhere? Any info will be useful.

**The Lord of Flatbush** · May 12th, 2002, 03:38 PM

On 2002-05-12 16:27, Nano wrote:
Hey, Chic and Diana Ross keep coming up in the forum and that make me think of the Rodgers/Edwards produced tracks for Diana on her B&W 1980 LP, "Upside down" and "I'm coming out" (correct me if there are more tracks, I believe it's only these two).
I read on some places over the years that these two tracks had been written for Aretha Franklin, been recorded and then rejected by her, and then offered to Diana. Even someone dared to suggest the Aretha-voiced recordings were on someone's vaults (this came up on the liner notes of a Rhino compilation, I think).
Well, some months ago I found a copy of Aretha's "autobiography" written by David Ritz. Didn't buy it because Ms. Franklin doesn't say much on it (for example, she denies a well-known incident on her first Atlantic recording on Muscle Shoals). I looked for the Chic incident and for what she says (about two paragraphs) she clashed with R/E before the actual recording, which supposedly never took place. This because R/E offered her the track already done for her to put the vocal only, not participating in the production as she wished (this coming from a lady earlier produced by Quincy Jones and Curtis Mayfield! Come on...)
So, I wonder if the Aretha-voiced recordings really exist. Does anyone in this forum heard them, or has a copy of them anywhere? Any info will be useful.

That's interesting! I would like to hear how those versions by Aretha Franklin sounded on those Nile Rodgers and Bernard Edwards produced tracks.

**markydefad** · May 12th, 2002, 03:42 PM

Hi Nano,

I don't know anything about Aretha's encounters with Rodgers/Edwards--but for the record, they wrote & produced ALL the tracks on "Diana", Ms Ross's best selling LP of all time. Miss Ross also clashed with the producers during the recording process and hated the original mix they gave to her. She had it remixed at Motown and then released it--to much acclaim. I think Motown and she were shocked cause they did not care for the record. I gotta pull out my "They Call Her Miss Ross" book for more details. I always thought this was an excellent example of the star NOT knowing when she was at her best.

I guess the Chic guys might have been too strict taskmasters for her. I think she had a tough time learning those complicated syncopated vocal lines they wrote.

I would be fascinated to know if there is any other material from the Ross sessions and even more fascinated to hear Aretha Franklin's vocal versions of these tunes, if they exist.

So, are you saying Miss Ross got Aretha's sloppy seconds?

**The Lord of Flatbush** · May 12th, 2002, 03:52 PM

On 2002-05-12 16:42, markydefad wrote:
Hi Nano,

I don't know anything about Aretha's encounters with Rodgers/Edwards--but for the record, they wrote & produced ALL the tracks on "Diana", Ms Ross's best selling LP of all time. Miss Ross also clashed with the producers during the recording process and hated the original mix they gave to her. She had it remixed at Motown and then released it--to much acclaim. I think Motown and she were shocked cause they did not care for the record. I gotta pull out my "They Call Her Miss Ross" book for more details. I always thought this was an excellent example of the star NOT knowing when she was at her best.

I guess the Chic guys might have been too strict taskmasters for her. I think she had a tough time learning those complicated syncopated vocal lines they wrote.

I would be fascinated to know if there is any other material from the Ross sessions and even more fascinated to hear Aretha Franklin's vocal versions of these tunes, if they exist.

So, are you saying Miss Ross got Aretha's sloppy seconds?

Sometime, sloppy seconds are better then the original copy.

For example, Picking Up Promises - Bernice Frazier was covered by Jocelyn Brown on Easy Street Records and mixed by Aldo Marin. Personally, I didn't care for Jocelyn Brown's version of Picking Up Promises.

**Nano** · May 13th, 2002, 04:33 PM

This is from Chic entry in the reference book "Who's who in rock and roll" (Crescent Books, NY 1991):
"The results of their production contract with Diana Ross propelled her back into the forefront... but it became apparent that Ross had interfered with their production -while retaining the overall feel of a Chic recording, it was not the record Edwards/Rodgers produced, and subsequently they demanded -and got- full control. A project with Aretha Franklin the same year threw up similar problems, and the duo did not complete it".
Note that the reviewer didn't make an explicit link between the two projects. And the word "complete"... so they started it? Hmmmm...
The Diana entry in the same book states that her record was "produced by hitmakers Chic, but apparently and controversially remixed by Ross".
Marky, did Lady Di say something for the record on this?

**markydefad** · May 13th, 2002, 04:50 PM

Nano,

It's pretty common knowledge that Miss Ross did not like the LP presented to her by Chic--so she had it remixed at Motown. I have no idea what they did to the tracks, but I will check her bio to see if there's more dirt.

I'd be fascinated to hear the LP as Chic presented it to her, wouldn't you?

It occurred to me last night that Miss Ross is the perfect "STAR" lead singer for the Chic production sound. I wonder if Aretha would have overpowered their intricate, syncopated oh-so-cool sound. Ross has a light, thin, reedy, sexy pop voice; Aretha's is more a Force of Nature--but she can sing sweetly-- as can another Force of Nature-- Miss Patti LaBelle.

I just think the Ross meets Chic pairing was made in heaven. If only they coulda gotten along better--maybe she'd have a few more #1 singles to her credit.

**keefelc** · May 13th, 2002, 07:18 PM

Nile Rodgers did produce more music for Miss Ross on her "Workin' Overtime" album (after Bernard Edwards passed away). The album was Diana's attempt into house music. I think this was one of the last albums that I enjoyed of hers.

As for the "diana" album, I recall reading she remixed the album with Russ Terrana, one of Motown's more successful in house mixers at the time. So, I wonder who was truly instrumental in creating the great sound of that album, especially considering Diana's track record on her subsequent self produced sessions???

**markydefad** · May 13th, 2002, 07:26 PM

No offense, Keefe, but "Workin' Overtime" sucked bigtime.

**keefelc** · May 13th, 2002, 07:30 PM

I don't think it was as bad as her subsequent albums or "Silk Electric". I liked the cut "Paradise" alot.

**maarten** · May 13th, 2002, 11:42 PM

As much as I like Chic - they are among my all-time favorites - this was not my favorite Chic production. I think the songs are good, but Diana's participation kinda spoils it. "Tenderness" is the best song from the album IMO.

I think the best album she ever did was the Ashford & Simpson penned "The boss" with the excellent "No one gets the prize" and "The boss". There is a great mix/combo of these two songs that came out on 12" at the time.

Other songs by her I like are "Selfish one" from the "Red Hot" album, and "Take me higher" from the album with the same name, produced by Nick Martinelli. On the 12" from that song, you also get "Too many nights", another Martinelli beauty. And I still, after all these years, really like "Love hangover".

Yet... somehow, she irritates me in almost all other songs, from all her albums... I guess that must be it - the fact that I wrote "she irritates"... it is more her persona than her voice perhaps...

**The Lord of Flatbush** · May 14th, 2002, 12:12 AM

Don't get me wrong, as much as No One Gets The Prize and The Boss were nice songs, I'm Coming Out and Upside Down were just as great. Ashford & Simpson penned tunes were splendid, just as much as Nile & Bernard's songs. Regardless of Diana's persona or anyone for that matter, the producer and the song writer will get the credit deserved for a hit or dis for a miss with a bomb.

**NickNack** · May 14th, 2002, 07:30 PM

On 2002-05-14 00:42, maarten wrote:
Yet... somehow, she irritates me in almost all other songs, from all her albums... I guess that must be it - the fact that I wrote "she irritates"... it is more her persona than her voice perhaps...

Thank you, Maarten. I know a lot of people who feel this way, my lover and myself included. My problem was that I was always buying her music for the production that surrounded her, NOT her. I'm one of those who believes the lady has no great voice. I loved her first two 'solo' (yeah, right) albums produced by Ashford & Simpson, but I always laughed that she went from a background of two to a goddamn 'choir'. The endings of both "Ain't No Mountain High Enough" and "Reach Out, I'll Be There" lead to her 'whispered' (i.e., 'weak') deliveries being smothered by music and a background singer with real pipes. This, funny as it is, is why I'm crazy about the songs. Ross is out, engineer covers lack of talent with the lavish production she always received.

I never paid to see Ross live but I hear she can put on an excellent show. That may be true, and I'm sure she sounds wonderful because everyone else hidden off-stage is singing their hearts out. (Or so I've heard.)

Solo artist... Puhleeze!

**markydefad** · May 14th, 2002, 07:58 PM

Oooh Nicky--That IS COLD!!!!!!!!!!

Miss Ross is MY FAVORITE DIVA of all time.

NOT the best singer? Of course NOT--but a good singer with a sexy, commercial pop voice who got better as her career developed. Even the critic's lying in wait to ambush her for daring to approximate Billie Holiday's voice had to admit she did a pretty good job.

I've seen her "LIVE" a number of times and she always sounded fine...my only shocking memory of her voice being subpar was on that horrendous VH-1 Special Tribute to her. Definately NOT in good voice and meandering and acting like she was stoned or something...she sorta just abandoned songs in the middle and cut 'em off. I can't recall the specifics at this point; I'm sure I have it on tape, but that was the only time in her career that I have followed like a fanatic--that she seemed like she didn't know what she was doing. She's been overly slick, rushed through stuff and been
distracted, forgot lyrics, had to tell Gil Askey to "bring it down" so she could get her bearings--but I've never seen her sound just plain in bad voice as on that special.

Her appeal? A sexy, sexy voice that recalled Nancy Wilson to me and a sense of style and ultimately "glamour" that always appealed to the "queen" in me. Plus, NOT being the best singer, her underdog status always made me root for her. At some point, she got her bearings and her confidence and she became a tyrant and so unpleasant to deal with that few wanted to. I forgave her her trespasses and still continued to secretly root for her to have another triumph. It doesn't look like that is gonna happen at this point. She's stepped on too many toes, she's aging (not as gracefully as others have) and she seems cluless as to how to remarket herself. LEARN SOME NEW SONGS and do a concert I say. Do Broadway. Do an album of standards a la Natalie Cole. But she tends to only wanna recycle.

Her "Standards " concert on cable was nothing but "Lady Sings The Blues" material with some "Supremes Sing Rodgers & Hart" tossed in. Nary one new song in the entire concert.

Vain. Conceited. A Bitch. A Tyrant.

"Yes" to all of the above. But, nevertheless, still a terrific singer with a glamorous "Star" persona, who accumulated 18 #1 Pop chart hits over the course of her career and another 40-some top 40 chartings. If Diana hit the Top 10, she more often than not took her song to #1. A remarkable achievement.

I Still Love Her. (Warts and all).

_________________
Make My Feet Wanna Dance!

Markydefad

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: markydefad on 2002-05-14 21:07 ]</font>

**markydefad** · May 14th, 2002, 10:03 PM

Ok, I'm home now with stats in hand. Wouldn't ya know?

I just happen to have the Billboard Pop Chart Stats at my fingertips.

Diana Ross & The Supremes:

25 Top 40 Hits (12/63 - 12/69)
18 Top 10 Hits
15 Top 5 Hits
12 #1 hits

so nearly 50% of their Chart Hits reached #1--Amazing Ststistic!!!!
Thanks go to Berry Gordy for pushing and guiding and, of course, Holland-Dozier-Holland for composing and producing many of the brilliant songs.

Diana Ross (Solo):

27 Top 40 Hits (5/70 - 3/85)
12 Top 10 Hits
7 Top 5 Hits
6 #1 Hits

So add the 12 #1's with The Supremes (she sang lead on all their Hits) with the 6 solo #1's (includes one duet with Lionel Richie) and you get 18# 1's. Amazing.

In recent years, Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston & Madonna have surpassed Miss Ross's record but, damn, it's still most impressive.

As a kid growing up in rural Wisconsin, being a devoted fan of The Supremes was not easy, believe me. Even in my own family, I had to fight to make sure I saw every appearance on the Ed Sullivan Show and other TV variety shows. They were referred to as "The Black Crows" by some in my family, I'm NOT kidding. In the college dorms, don't ask how I got Football/Basketball games turned off so I could see "TCB" their special with The Temptations and how I camped out in the lounges to make sure I could see Diana's every appearance on lame old Bob Hope Specials, etc. I don't recall ever missing something if I knew about it in advance. Hence, my years of TV Guide reading were most helpful when I moved to Hollywood.

The seventies were the best era for Miss Ross. I'll never forget how, with breathless anticipation, I opened The New Yorker in the college bookstore to see what my heroine, uber-critic Pauline Kael thought of "Lady Sings The Blues". I was prepared for the worst--but miracle of miracles--she wrote..."when it was over--I wrote on my pad--I loved it". I'm sure my J.C Penney underwear was wet as I plunked down my cash and ran outta the bookstore to savor every word Miss Kael wrote. "Mahogany" stunk but I paid to see it several times and only the debacle of "The Wiz" (the dreariest, most joyless musical ever made?) made me rethink Miss Ross's career as an actress. I had such hopes for that one too cause she was finally working with an A-List director, hot off a string of hits, Sidney Lumet ("Serpico", "Network", "Murder On The Orient Express", "Dog Day Afternoon") Ms. Ross hemmed and hawed for years over what she was gonna do next ( "The Bodyguard" with Ryan O'Neal, somethingf about a deaf woman that has recently resurfaced again in the trades, and then about a decade of hearing her plan the "Josephine Baker Story" until HBO filmed it with the decidedly younger Lynn Whitfield. (Whatever happened to her?)

Ah, the memories. Ok, I went off on a rant--of interest probably to no one but me, but I feel better.

Thanks for allowing me to indulge myself.

**markydefad** · May 14th, 2002, 10:12 PM

Afterthought:

It sure seems sad that the title of this thread doesn't even mention it's main subject and STAR. Isn't it ironic? Doncha think?

Miss Ross deserves better. (I know,... Mark start taking the Prozac/Zoloft/Paxil/whatever again).

**BrunoRepublic** · May 15th, 2002, 12:11 AM

On 2002-05-14 23:12, markydefad wrote:

Miss Ross deserves better.

I would argue that Miss Ross has received exactly what she deserved.

To me, Miss Ross represents the triumph of style over substance, of marketing over meaning, of maliciousness over sincerity. Okay, not to nearly the extent of Madonna or any of the shrieking divas of today, but it's the same deal. Now, in all fairness, Miss Ross worked very hard for her success, and had the necessary streak of shamelessness to do WHATEVER IT TOOK to reach the top. Like Madonna, she didn't let her lack of natural talent get in the way of her aspirations. But isn't it funny how the movie industry -- often regarded as the most shallow facet of the entertainment industry -- is the one area that they could not achieve lasting success in?

(I know,... Mark start taking the Prozac/Zoloft/Paxil/whatever again).

Hey, this is the type of crap that I type when I am on this stuff! To bad I had to stop taking Tryptan... whoa, what an aptly named drug! Fabulous near-hallucinations for the first few days, and everything seems like it's 50 miles away. Sure things still suck, but they suck a lot less when you can barely perceive them!

**Nano** · May 15th, 2002, 04:25 PM

On 2002-05-14 23:12, markydefad wrote:

It sure seems sad that the title of this thread doesn't even mention it's main subject and STAR. Isn't it ironic? Doncha think?

Yes it is Marky, and brave as it was your defense of D.R., I have to put my serious Samuel L. Jackson face and remember you and the others that I wanted to know something about ARETHA!!! "Do you read the Bible, son?"

OK, now to end this matter I agree in part with you (wetting for Pauline Kael? I had never heard that one) and also with Graham, in that Ms. Ross is a "hard-working" case, a good entertainer, that is. (And Madonna couldn't snap into movies, either.)
Now, Aretha is waaaay another matter. I remember the end of a wonderful essay on her, on The Rolling Stone Illustrated History of R'n'R: will look for it to quote here (hey, I created this subject anyway).
Now, if you know anything about Aretha versions of "Upside down" and the rest...

**markydefad** · May 15th, 2002, 04:48 PM

Nano,

OK, you're right, my friend. I guess I did sorta hi-jack your post and steer it into a discussion of Miss Ross. Sorry.

As for the "wet" underwear, I was not talkin' "urine" wet...more of a "creamed my pants" in excitement(orgasm) cause the notoriously picky Ms. Kael was praising my girl, Diana. And, not literally creamed--I'm just trying to be descriptive. Understand?

As for Miss Re (Aretha)--no doubt one of the great singers of all time...but NEVER a glamour girl.

**Nano** · May 15th, 2002, 05:06 PM

On 2002-05-15 17:48, markydefad wrote:

As for Miss Re (Aretha)--no doubt one of the great singers of all time...but NEVER a glamour girl.

Well, you really have a point on that!

I read some of Pauline Kael's work (may she rest in peace) and think she was a smart critic and writer. My stupid intended joke was on her looks...
We make amends, "my frrriend" (as said by Roberto Benigni in that funny "Down by law" movie).

**maarten** · May 16th, 2002, 01:23 AM

Wow - I have managed to side-track a topic twice now. First it was the upcoming World Cup football (and NOT soccer, suckers). And now La Ross.

By the way - I am with Nicky and Graham.

It is a shame that Boys-II-Men and Aerosmith will perform for the World Cup final event concerts - what if it would have been La Ross... then we could have double sidetracked.

On topic: I saw Aretha Franklin at the VH1 Diva's Live concert in NYC in 98. She blew everybody away. Especially Celine Dion... uhoh, I fear another sidetrack coming up.

I love her very early work (Spanish Harlem) and the albums she did with/under direction of Luther Vandross. And I loved "A rose is not a rose" and "Here we go again" from 1998, as well her duet with Withney Houston "It isn't, it wasn't, it's never gonna be" from 1989.

**markydefad** · May 16th, 2002, 02:43 AM

Aretha is The Queen--no doubt about it.

I prefer her late 1960's - mid 1970's work. The Atlantic years, under the guidance of Arif Mardin (who also produced, among many others, The Bee Gees!!! Quelle Surprise, indeed!!!)

Aretha, along with Al Green, had the creative genius of a true artist in that she could cover a classic hit in her own style and her cover version would be every bit as good as the original, if not sometimes better.

Some examples:

"Respect" (originally by Otis Redding) #1 Pop

"I Say A Little Prayer" (the Bacharach/David pop gem that Dionne Warwick had taken to #4 in 1967--Aretha's more soulful version went to #10 on the Pop chart the following August.)

"The Weight" -(a classic by The Band and recorded by a wide variety of others including Jackie DeShannon (my fave) #19 Pop

"Let It Be"/"Eleanor Rigby" -Not many artists would dare release a single cover of a Beatles classic. Although her "Eleanor Rigby" (#17 Pop) doesn't reach the level of the Beatles' version, her "Let It Be" is classic.

"Border Song (Holy Moses)"- from Elton John's self-titled debut. Aretha infuses it with soul.

"Don't Play That Song"/"Spanish Harlem" - 2 remakes from the solo career of Ben E. King of The Drifters- both superb.

"You're All I Need To Get By" -In 1971, Aretha covers the classic Ashford/Simpson tune first released a few years earlier by Marvin Gaye & Tammi Terrell. Most memorable results.

"Oh Me, Oh My (I'm A Fool For You Baby)"- remake of Lulu's #22 Pop hit. Lulu's is nice. Aretha's is better.

"A Brand New Me" - although I prefer Dusty Springfield's version, Miss Re's is nice also. Incidentally, Dusty got her masterpiece "Son Of A Preacher Man" after Aretha declined to record it. After, Dusty's smash, Miss Re had second thoughts and did give it a cover. Strangely, Dusty was a little intimidated by Re's phrasing of the line "the only man that could ever teach me". Dusty sang it as "the only man that could EV-ER teach me"; Re phrased it with the emphasis on THAT and sang the "could ever teach me" more rapid-fire. Dusty said, in a TV interview, that when she heard Re's version--she was embarassed by the way she'd done it, and clips showed her singing it as Re did in concert, thereafter. I personally think Dusty's original phrasing was better. Go figure.

"Bridge Over Troubled Water" - One of her most brilliant covers. It took some guts to cover and release this tune that had spent 6 weeks at #1 --not a year earlier. Aretha's version peaked at #6 on the Pop Charts. One of her best.

"Until You Come Back To Me (That's What I'm Gonna Do)" - Stevie Wonder tune that she makes her own. (#3 in 1973)

"What A Fool Believes" - 1981 remake of the Doobie Brothers #1 hit cooks.

Ok, enough. But, those covers are among my favorite Aretha Franklin recordings. I guess I need another post to list all the great records that Aretha got to record first. Essential for any collector, IMHO.

_________________
Make My Feet Wanna Dance!

Markydefad

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: markydefad on 2002-05-16 03:48 ]</font>

**markydefad** · May 16th, 2002, 03:58 AM

There is an interesting link between Aretha Franklin and Diana Ross, other than the fact that both are from Detroit. That link is Berry Gordy, founder of Motown Records.

In the early days of Motown, Berry Gordy was looking for a female artist to be the focus of his company--someone both black and white audiences could relate it, writes J Randy Tarraborelli in his "Call Her Miss Ross" tome.

Among the female singers, Gordy wooed to be his star artist was Erma Franklin, one of Rev. C.L. Franklin's three talented daughters. The other two were Carolyn and Aretha. Gordy spent many hours coaching Erma vocally and teaching her new material, but the Rev. constantly discouraged them both. The Rev. wanted Erma to attend college and asked Berry to transfer his attentions to his other daughter, Aretha. Berry did not appreciate being told what to do and "He was not interested in Aretha's voice and found her lackadaisacal outlook on life and career uninspiring. There ended what could have been a monumental union."

Amazing, but true.

Interestingly, I've heard Aretha say kind things about Diana Ross--including her voice. I can't remember where she was interviewed, but Aretha did compare Erykah Badu's voice to Diana's and in a complementary fashion. This may have been on Oprah when Miss Ross was a guest and Aretha was interviewed in taped clips. Anyone remember?

Another interesting stat. Diana and Aretha recorded a song that BOTH released as a single. Diana had the higher charting version--but both made the Top 30 on the R&B chart.

NAME THAT TUNE.

**SandraDee** · May 18th, 2002, 06:31 AM

Marky, that track is Its My Turn I think from 1981.
A question: When people mention The Boss LP why is 'Once in the Morning' never mentioned along with No-one Gets The Prize & the title track. I think its just as good a disco track.

**Nano** · May 18th, 2002, 07:28 PM

OK Marky, I recognize I have no idea. Must be one of her Columbia recordings.
I found the bit of the Rolling Stone Encyclopaedia, it's from a brilliant essay on Aretha by Russell Gersten, here's how it ends:
“The French filmmaker and critic Jean-Luc Godard put it this way (freely translated): ‘there are two kinds of artists. Some walk down the streets with their heads up, looking straight ahead. They look and plan and organize, and their work is smart and wise and well developed and sometimes great. This group is always admired.
‘The there’s the other type of artist. They walk down the street with their heads down, lost in thought or daydreams. Every so often, they’re obliged to lift their heads, always suddenly, embracing their field of vision in a series of rapid, oblique glances. This group SEES. However confused or eccentric their style, they see with a wonderful clarity’.
Aretha assuredly fits into the latter category. Long after the mediocre works are forgotten, the beauties of her intuitive, improvisatory work will remain. No one ever sang songs of yearning like Aretha Franklin”.

‘Nuff said!

**ol'skinflint** · June 1st, 2006, 11:32 PM

A long time ago I read about Chic producing tracks for Aretha but I never saw or heard any record being released (and let's not forget that Nile Rodgers once wrote to discomusic.com so maybe he'll read this and clear things up). I also read that Chic recorded an album with Johnny Mathis that was never released. I kinda doubt if Aretha and Chic would have been a good match anyway although I was and am a big fan of both. I'm glad the "Diana" album was a big success and I like it but would not call it great; my favorite tracks were the least known ("Friend to Friend" and "Now That You're Gone""). I was pretty surprised that "Upside Down" was so huge, Ross' vocal on that song sounds detached and uninspired to my ears but maybe that was intentional. "Working Overtime" sounded drum heavy and lacking in melody to me. Ross eventually did other songs that I thought were great like the song she did with Daryl Hall, and a song called "Touch by Touch" which reminded me a bit of some of her Motown hits.