(Re-)Mastering vinyl, and other miscellany -- from one naive

[Mephistopholes]

Hello everyone. I've been coming here for over a year now and a couple times I've responded to other people's posts, but now for once *I* need some help.

First, a little background (hope I don't bore you). Well, I'm 16 years old, and I really love disco and old school Pop/R&B. I also love old school divas from all genres -- Donna Summer, Gloria Gaynor, Diana Ross, Dionne Warwick (her Warner Brothers [1973-] years on), Gladys Knight, et cetera.

Well, I saw DJ Jimmy M's post about Alec Constandinos' material sitting in the vaults (more like rotting), and then I finally realized that there are people other than me that are thinking, "There is a lot of great music sitting in the vaults of the huge record companies, taking a back seat to today's *ahem* 'music.'"

So, that's where I come in. I made a comment in an earlier post about disco divas, talking about how a TON of Diana Ross' disco material is sitting in the vaults of Motown, having been out of print for years, and under-listened to in the first place (I still can't find very many people who have heard her sing "Baby It's Me.")

But thanks to some very generous ex-boyfriends (they weren't ex- when they were generous LOL), and to my own flat out luck, I own a reasonably large amount of these exceptionally rare vinyls, in very good shape. So suddenly I had an epiphany -- since Motown has all but forgotten about this stuff, and most likely have no monetary interest in it, why not secure the proper copyright permissions and re-release, distribute, and promote the material MYSELF?

Of course there are a LOT of things to consider, as it isn't an easy task. Securing the permission is the easiest. Like I said Motown has all but given up on the stuff, hell even the bigwigs had to dig on a computer to give me the catalog number, and to even verify that they owned the copyright to it (LOL!)

Next is marketability. Here there are two factions of people -- the older generation, who has heard the stuff, likes the stuff, and wants to buy it just for the sake of having it on CD, and the newer generation, who has never even heard of Diana Ross, much less her material.

So anyway, ignore my longwindedness LOL, here's what I want to do -- take my vinyls (two that were never pressed on cassette, 8-track, cd or anything other than vinyl, and one that was on CD for a very short period of time), remaster them, and commercially sell them.

I also want to release a compilation, something along the lines of "Ross: The Disco Anthology", and put on it ALL (!), no matter how rare, of her dance tracks from 1976-present, along with lots of remixes from amateur remixers (as long as they sound good), and release it as well.

So, I've been really busy lately copying my vinyls to my comp for restoration. I'm not a pro, just a music lover, but I did get me a new turntable (magnetic with a seperate pre-amp I bought, not a piezo-electric what the **** ever with a built in one [lmao] -- my old one just about had it), brand new needle, great soundcard, et cetera, so that's not an issue. Took what little vinyl crackle there was out, and that sort of thing but the problem is I just cannot get the sound equalized (even with some of the most expensive programs like Sound Forge 5 and CoolEdit 2000 [I got the full versions!])

Like for example for my compilation idea I want to take some tracks off of commercial CDs (Diana's recycled-for-the-zillionth-time-songs), as well as the ones from vinyl (the extinct ones.) But when I compare them, they just don't sound like they go together. Take any CD and all the songs have the same tonal balance and the like. I know vinyl is supposed to be "warmer", but to me it sounds like the opposite. Seems like the vinyl track isn't as "full" or "rich" or something as the CD track. And yes, I have a good preamp, and of course apply the RIAA correction.

So bascially, what should I do? Any
ideas? Got any equalizer settings for me to try? Effects for me to apply? ANYTHING?! LOL
If you've read this far, I guess I should thank you for listening to my rambling ***



~ Michael

[markydefad]

You sound like a pretty smart and obviously, ambitious guy--but, Michael, I can't believe the notoriously litigious & stingy (just ask their artists about their never-paid royalties) Motown is gonna let you release anything they own, whether they give a **** about it or not.

And, having been a Miss Ross fan from the first day I heard "Where Did Our Love Go" in the summer of 1964--exactly what are the missing "dance tracks"? She really didn't record that many disco-oriented cuts that aren't available on the countless compilations of her work. The "Baby It's Me" LP did have "Your Love Is So Good For Me" which I do have on a 12" at 6:32 (Thelma Houston's "I Can't Go On Living Without Your Love" is on the flipside) and there's also a special disco version of "What You Gave Me" from the 1978 "Ross" that times at 6:06 (Bonnie Pointer's "Free Me From My Freedom" is on the flip). Other than that, which of her dance material is NOT available?

The last "Best Of" double CD that came out (2001) had the original mix of "Lovin, Livin, & Givin" before they put the Moroderesque-synth line on it. That was fun to hear.

The 12"mixes of "It's My House" and "The Boss" are on the remastered "The Boss" CD.

"Love Hangover", "Upside Down", "I'm Coming Out",etc. are all available on CD.

Now, there are those RCA years to contend with. Hmmm, maybe that's what you're referring to? "Swept Away", "Pieces Of Ice", "Eaten Alive", "Chain Reaction" were all 12" singles that may not be available on CD. I never checked. The vinyl is pretty damn easy to come by, however. Amoeba records is overflowing with discarded/ recycled Miss Ross LP's.

I don't know what else to tell you. But, I am encouraged that you're interested in preserving the work of the great divas of the past. That's a positive sign.

_________________
Make My Feet Wanna Dance!

Markydefad

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: markydefad on 2002-05-12 12:52 ]</font>

[Mephistopholes]

A lot of her work is easy to come by, yeah, but like I said most of it is recycled over and over. Another thing I've always hated about Motown is how they 99% of the time release the radio edits of Diana's dance work onto CD.

Until "The Motown Anthology" (2001), there were 2 places (that I know of) to get the 7:45 cut of Love Hangover -- an import version of "All The Great Hits", or the out-of-print-since-'92-CD-rerelease of "Diana Ross" (1976).

On "Your Love is So Good for Me" & "What You Gave Me" the LP versions (not those g-damned RADIO EDITS!), are only available on "Baby It's Me" (1977), & "Ross" (1978), respectively.

I do wish I knew why Motown did all this editing, though.

Three examples --

'Lovin', Livin', & Givin'' LP Version (from "Ross") - 5:11

'Lovin', Livin', & Givin'' 7" (Single) Version (on "Anthology", 1983) - 3:11

'What You Gave Me' LP Version (from "Ross") - 4:57

'What You Gave Me' 7" (Single) Version (on "Anthology", 1983) - 3:30

and of course,

"Love Hangover" LP Version (from "Diana Ross [1976] - 7:45

"Love Hangover" 7" (Single) Version - 3:45

And on and on. Edits, edits, edits! And notice (with the exception of "Love Hangover"), only the RADIO EDITS are available on commercial CD. Honestly, that realy pisses me off.

Is any of Ross' work _totally_ unavailable? Not counting new material never released, still in the vaults (since it's impossible to obtain), probably not. If one wanted to get it all would it be a pain? DEFINATELY.

And then a lot of tracks were A) Never released as singles, or B) Never had their FULL LP VERSIONS (and/or their 12") released on CD.

And as you said, we have the RCA years [1981-89] to contend with. As far as I know, none of the 12" singles you mentioned are available on CD. It's a classic example of Motown -- release "Upside Down", "I'm Coming Out", "The Boss" & "Love Hangover" (the radio edit .. grr) until we puke, but release the other stuff one time (two if we're lucky), and let it rot in the vaults until the Second Coming.

I want to make it all easier to access. Hell, I'm 16 years old, I wasn't around when this stuff came out, so you know what that means? For me every album/single/whatever is a real pain sometimes to get. I want to make it easier to access, and have it _*all in one place*_

Besides, with Diana's career in the shape it's in, circa 2002, people should know (and not just you hard-core fans on this board, either) that "Upside Down" and the hacked up 3-minute "Love Hangover" are not the extent of her material (dance or otherwise).

Motown is greedy, yeah, but I guess that plays into my hands -- they want that royalty money, don't they? If they have a chance to make one more dollar, hell they wouldn't pass it up.

I want to put a compilation together, like I said, put all of her dance tracks (in their 12", and maybe on a few add their radio edits along with the 12") lots of remixes, et cetera. After that's done, I want to individually re-release _*ALL*_ of her Motown albums. From "Everything is Everything" [1971], which is a BITCH(!!!) to come by (Japanese import is the only way to get it on CD, and it goes for about $50 on Ebay on a GOOD day), all the way up to "To Love Again" (1981). I know Motown has recently began this re-release-out-of-pity thing (First "diana" [1980], then 79's "The Boss", then 73's "Diana & Marvin", until here this year "Diana Ross" [1970, later retitled "Ain't No Mountain High Enough"]. But for me that just doesn't cut it.

IMHO, this stuff really needs to be in print again. I am really serious about this -- it's become a crusade of sorts LOL.



~ Michael

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mephistopholes on 2002-05-12 14:41 ]</font>

[markydefad]

I am impressed with your obviously well-researched post. You've done your homework. Let me check my stash of CD's and see if I can find some of the longer versions; I'm thinking that I recently listened to that "RuPaul's A-Go-Go" and that the long version of "Lovin, Livin & Givin" was on there.

But, I hear you, on the problem with the EDIT VERSION being released on most compilations. Rhino, a god-send for the casual collector, cause they do a great job in compiling those generous 18-cut Greatest Hits compilations--are also a notorious pain in the ass for those of us who want the extended versions of records. Their Disco Box set is ridiculous cause it only has the 3:30 radio versions of all the songs included. I guess they can put more titles on a cd that way and appeal to the common record buyer, but the collector who wants the extended version-- and isn't the extended version ALWAYS the BEST version???--is left with with a lump of **** in his hand.

I hate it when record companies do not put the timings on the back of collections. They MUST know the people buying want to know whether they are getting another radio edit or, at long last, the extended version of "Love Hangover" (although some guy says there is a 10 minute version of that tune that was on the original pressings of the 1975 Diana Ross LP--I've never seen or heard it).

Anyway, good luck in your venture. I'd certainly purchase YOUR compilation. But I can't fathom how it could be done legally. Sorry.

[markydefad]

One thing did just occur to me: A compilation of Miss Ross's Best Dance Tracks could certainly be compiled by the members of this board and distributed to those interested (NOT FOR PROFIT)--just sharing the CD's with fellow members. Just a thought.

Is it OK to say that Bernie? (Well if not, erase it)

[The Lord of Flatbush]

Some of the Motown Sound are available as 12" Imports. There are record shows once a month in NYC where original vinyl and CD's of songs are sold. It's not like you can't get those records, you must try to locate record shows in your area. People come from all over the world to attend record shows once a month in NYC. If you're ever in NYC in the near future, inquire within and I'll try to help you as much as possible.