Double Platinum Record [Level 9]
I'm doing this because I want an answer. Quinny began this in a public forum and now I'd like to end it. I would like to hear the opinions of others to see if I'm "too sensitive", "too serious", "biased against the man", whatever. I'm putting it here as to not disrupt Leatherman's thread any further.
http://www.discomusic.com/forums/vie...r=asc&start=30
Third post from the bottom of the page is Quinny's explanation of why he finds the music of Shakatak "limp". You can see this was back in December 2003. The next page has a post by Rodmann2 who took exception to Quinny's remark and a response from Quinny. That is all that occurred in public view. Because of that, Quinny tells you his remark only caused a "small ripple". Let me counter:
The first of 6 pms I received from different members was from Rodmann2. He was a member who had just joined in October 2003 and was not only furious with Quinny but with me for not taking a stance as moderator. It also shocked him that other members pm'd him for 'attacking Quinny for no reason'. I won't go into everything he said but I did tell him I would speak to Quinny privately. Rodmann2 left the board two weeks later and hasn't returned.
The other messages were general complaints of "why is he still here" -- that sort of thing. We've all seen them before, the pros and the cons. After all of this I spoke with Quinny and we got no where. (How unusual. :roll: ) I ended it with until I get an apology, we're finished.
So, who thinks I'm 'over the top' wrong? Who thinks I should hop a plane to Britain and smack some sense into the man? I'm trying to joke this off but in all honesty I am tired of it. Tired through and through. I found his remark very offensive and unnecessary. I thought it was hurtful, insensitive and insulting and showed me just how arrogant this guy can be. If you disagree, hey, that's fine but let me say this: If you're not walking around in Black skin then you better have a damn good reason as to why you think I'm overreacting. I realize this won't change the thinking of the person who wrote it. That's a given. I'd just like to know for myself.
Also, if you feel I shouldn't air it out here, tell me. Everything is fair game.
Gold Record [Level 7]
Nick, just so you know..... Rodmann2, is a friend of K-Bee, efunk & DJ Jimmy M . He didn't leave the forum because of Quinny.
I'm sure (after reading again) the particular thread in question why both of you are affended. Rodmann2 left or not posted for other reasons.
Gold Record [Level 7]
Oops I forgot to give opinion.
First of all Nick, you are a moderator and in the middle of the drama unfortunately. As far as being over sensitive? maybe a little. You jumped all over my ass once..... I was like :o and :roll: I thought of leaving the forum... but, I'm not gonna be a pussy just because the wrong words were said to me. :D (this is my experience and not a pun intended for anyone who might take offense).
You think this is bad... try hangin' out in a NFL FOOTBALL forum. it gets real ugly there.... especially because I root for a pathetic team.
Quinny can be obnoxious .... but he doesn't lie or try sugarcoat his opinions.
Double Platinum Record [Level 9]
My take as another African-American/Black man.
I kinda remember reading this and I brushed it off. In part because I wasn't sure if Quinny meant to be racist. As Black folks we often come across racist ignorance and it becomes a threshold thing. By threshold I mean responding requires diverting your time and focus away from something else that is important. Depending on how bad the racist issue was, the amount of crap you recently heard and your overall state of mind you might feel it's necessary to respond. I guess it works the same way with the gay issues. Some of you might remember Leanmean was pissed at me for what I thought was an innocuous reference I made several months back. I apologized but she still hates me. Oh well!
Nicky my brother, I certainly wouldn't say you overreacted given what I just said.
As for Quinny, I don't think he meant to be racist though he may be. That is not important to me because people are entitled to feel and believe however they please. I also strongly believe in freedom to make choices. Just as Quinny is free to be, I believe Nicky is free to choose not to associate with him.
Find them and destroy them!
Double Platinum Record [Level 9]
Thanks for responding efunk and thanks for clearing me on Rodmann2. Also, I'm not a sports fan so I don't get to clash in that element :) . So, your take is I might have been too sensitive here, am I right? If that is true, do you at least understand why a Black person would or could be offended by such a comment? Especially coming from someone who constantly reminds you how intelligent and articulate he is? I don't know Black people who talk like this, therefore, Quinny's "attempt at being Black" is ridiculous. Why would anyone take a "shuck-n-jive, slave-nigger" speech tack to describe the music of this or any group? There was no reason whatsoever for the statement.Originally Written by efunk_adelic
Oops I forgot to give opinion.
First of all Nick, you are a moderator and in the middle of the drama unfortunately. As far as being over sensitive? maybe a little. You jumped all over my ass once..... I was like :o and :roll: I thought of leaving the forum... but, I'm not gonna be a pussy just because the wrong words were said to me. :D (this is my experience and not a pun intended for anyone who might take offense).
You think this is bad... try hangin' out in a NFL FOOTBALL forum. it gets real ugly there.... especially because I root for a pathetic team.
Quinny can be obnoxious .... but he doesn't lie or try sugarcoat his opinions.
BTW --- I don't remember jumping on your ass
Triple Platinum Record [Level 10]
Not being Black, I'm never gonna be able to know just what that feels like when ridiculing comments are made. I'm not sure how to respond. I didn't think it was that offensive when I first read it--I think it's more who's saying it than what was said. I don't really get how Shakatak's vocals are equated with Amos & Andy shuck-n-jive verbiage. (Steely Dan's witty comments were priceless, however).
This leads me to a question. Sometimes I used "ebonics" to caustically comment on stuff in the Hip Hop/Rap community. The "she be" type of stuff. Is that offensive? :o
Nicky has always been a warm & welcoming soul here. I've always liked him. Quinny has always been a pain in the ass--but he has his right to free speech. As long as Bernie permits it, I guess. Fantomas was banned. This seems less disruptive than his constant fight-picking.
NIcky, is it possible to just avoid Q--and agree to disagree on everything? He likes to lay Limey turds on most of the threads. I just try to ignore him. I think the only thing we have in common is that we both like "Give It To Me Baby" by Rick James. But he does keep it interesting. Steely Dan handles him very well. Sorta with a bemused tolerance. Like the "problem child" that just needs attention. So you think "Oh, no he DIH-INT"...but you realize, "Of course, he DID...he can't help himself". But that's your call.
I'm amazed about all this "pm-ing" behind the scenes. Don't no one (well, few) p.m. little ole me.
"Lost inside adorable illusion...."
Double Platinum Record [Level 9]
Thanks, Paul. I knew as a Black my position would more than likely be clearer to you. I'm also listening to the way you handled it and why. I will admit that I am not one to let things like this slide off. Too many past scuffles with ignorant rednecks and college-educated bigots. **** has to be called for what it is. When the day comes that I can get up, go out and not be reminded that I am "just a Black man" to a lot of people, I'll start feeling differently.
As for Quinny being or not being a racist, I couldn't care less. What irks me is that a so-called intelligent and caring human being might have considered an apology, even if no offense was meant. I've done it. I'm sure others have too. When I've said or done something that bothered someone else, and with good reason, I've had no problem saying excuse me. It's not about being 'pc' or any other crap. It's just about showing some common decency. Not here. Tell the guy he essentially just spat in your face and he'll tell you to change your position because it's not his fault.
Sorry to hear that Leanmean is still ticked with you. I remember that incident. I think I stayed out of that one.
Gold Record [Level 7]
Sorry to hear that Leanmean is still ticked with you. I remember that incident. I think I stayed out of that one.
Maybe if Paul wasn't such a horn "dawg" she'd still be posting.. :lol:
Paul gets my vote for biggest "ho" of this forum. :P
Double Platinum Record [Level 9]
:lol: :lol: Oh, brother, they've got your number!
Double Platinum Record [Level 9]
I'll concede that. The person saying it didn't help matters at all.
That makes two of us.I don't really get how Shakatak's vocals are equated with Amos & Andy shuck-n-jive verbiage.
No, because 'we be' that way, sometimes.This leads me to a question. Sometimes I used "ebonics" to caustically comment on stuff in the Hip Hop/Rap community. The "she be" type of stuff. Is that offensive? :o
No where near that serious.Fantomas was banned. This seems less disruptive than his constant fight-picking.
Looks like I'm going to have to, but only if it doesn't affect the moderating. If I find myself being unfairly biased as Quinny has said I'll have to stop. It wouldn't be fair to him or anyone else if I just sat back and let the barbs fly because I don't particularly care for them.Nicky, is it possible to just avoid Q--and agree to disagree on everything? So you think "Oh, no he DIH-INT"...but you realize, "Of course, he DID...he can't help himself". But that's your call.
Gold Record [Level 7]
What's so sad... is not everyone in the world is gonna get along...
It would be really cool to meet each other someday... get to know one another, make appologies... have fun, go to lunch/dinner/dancing/drinking/drugs... go back home... then start all over again in the forum. :lol:
Triple Platinum Record [Level 10]
Well I do think several of us tried to get some members of this board to come to the Trocadero Party...but few did. :(
"Lost inside adorable illusion...."
Chart Hit [Level 6]
Ditto! Nicky your insight and contributions to this site are better served by not getting dragged down to the level of myopic individuals who only see the world in their own cynical, angry way and wish to jump all over someones opinions that are posted formeaningful discussion.I applaud you for calling individuals up on issues and you as a moderator should.There are others here who see things for what they really are and support you. Let's get back to keeping the focus on what this site is about and what Bernie wants it to be.Insight and education about one of the greatest genres of dance music.NIcky, is it possible to just avoid Q--and agree to disagree on everything? He likes to lay Limey turds on most of the threads. I just try to ignore him.
Triple Platinum Record [Level 10]
Ya know I still get a weird sensation when talking about limiting someone's free speech. I've been brought up to believe that everyone has the right to state their beliefs no matter how alien or repugnant they may be to me. I can try to counter their opinions--but should not censor them. Then I read people saying they left this forum because of needlessly insensitive and rude comments. :(
Sometimes I think controversial comments are micromanaged by the moderators. I think "oh a little controversy is healthy and keeps it from getting stale". Leave em alone...and let's have fun. :roll:
Then things can get out of hand and people leave forever. Some people you never miss...others you do. :-?
I think most everyone here has had an altercation of some type with you-know-who. Some have truly been incensed by his comments. :evil:
If he's driving intelligent & informed people away--what's the point in defending him? Either behave or go away. :x
This isn't rocket science. It's supposed to be about the love of music--not belittling people's inferior taste. If people can't express their tastes here without fear of snide comments...what's the point of the forum?
We have a very small group of regular posters--many visit; few really stay to contribute. Nicky tried playing "Welcome Wagon" host to the newbies. Something seems to be standing in the way of acquiring new contributors. What could that be?
What to do...what to do??? Only Bernie knows the answer, I guess.
"Lost inside adorable illusion...."
Double Platinum Record [Level 9]
[quote="efunk_adelic"][quote="NickNack"]:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I was on an evangelical mission to convert Lean :lol: Oh well, just another who sees me for the slut that I am :D
Find them and destroy them!
Double Platinum Record [Level 9]
I guess :D:lol: :lol: Oh, brother, they've got your number!
I may be easy but I'm not cheap
Find them and destroy them!
No Longer Charting
NickNack: I'm not going to take this crap lying down.
That you've taken the time and effort to try and publicly condemn me in such a way is totally abhorrant and undignified.
I ain't gonna apologise for a crime I didn't commit, had no knowledge of committing and had no intention of committing. That you have absolutely no idea what is meant by irony, is not my problem. That you could take something so seriously, which was so obviously said tongue in cheek and in such a self-deprecating way, is also not my problem.
That you didn't accept my apology at the time and couldn't allow yourself to accept my explanations about the offending comment is really inexcuseable, now that you've so clinically re-opened the wound and accused me of not apologising.
I'm really getting fed up with all and sundry thinking they can have a free pop at me and my psyche and tell me (and the world) I'm obnoxious, ignorant, racist, intellectually challenged or whatever. It's you guys who need your heads examining. Lynch mob mentally appears to rule around here. You should all be ashamed!!
Mirror, mirror on the wall
Who's the fairest of them all
The name would begin with Q, as I've never passed judgement or been personally rude to any of you.
Oh! Am I being self righteous again? Or just telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
Think on it!!
Double Platinum Record [Level 9]
Fine. Sit in it. Stand in it. Suit yourself.
I took the time and effort to find out if I was being unfair to you, overreacting as you keep saying. You call it what you will.That you've taken the time and effort to try and publicly condemn me in such a way is totally abhorrant and undignified.
I believe I said that this is what you would say.I ain't gonna apologise for a crime I didn't commit, had no knowledge of committing and had no intention of committing.
The irony in what, Quinny? That you are so full of yourself you actually believe there is no fault? Yeah, that might be a problem --- but not mine. Racist remarks don't come tongue-in-cheek. Maybe in your little paradise, not mine. And for the life of me I can't find any self-deprecation in anything you said in that remark. Unless, of course, you think Black people really talk that way and your imitation is not up to par. In that case, please excuse me. You really need to brush up on your diction exercises.That you have absolutely no idea what is meant by irony, is not my problem. That you could take something so seriously, which was so obviously said tongue in cheek and in such a self-deprecating way, is also not my problem.
First --- You never apologized because, as you just said, 'you ain't gonna apologize for a crime you didn't commit'. If you say otherwise you know you're lying.That you didn't accept my apology at the time and couldn't allow yourself to accept my explanations about the offending comment is really inexcuseable, now that you've so clinically re-opened the wound and accused me of not apologising.
Two --- When you gave your explanations, sans apologies, back in December you didn't find the comment 'offending', as you now say. You essentially told me to get over it because you did and said nothing wrong. I'm quite sure we touched on the ever reliable, 'I'm being misunderstood'. Again. :roll:
Three --- You're last sentence is true. I shined a bright light on the 'throwaway comment about Shakatak'. You said it was available for everyone to see but I think a lot of people missed it, smothered in all that self-deprecation.
I took this route because I think the members have a right to know why the moderator is behaving the way he is. You tell them I'm unfair and biased. I feel otherwise. Now they know why. I want their opinions. This is a way to get it.
If you would stop writing in a manner that utilizes all the adjectives you just listed I'm sure the pot shots would stop. And, ironically , I'm doing exactly what you said, examining my head, with outside help. I was actually starting to doubt myself, thinking, "Should I have cut the guy some slack?" The way you're screaming at me now reassures me I didn't misunderstand you at all.I'm really getting fed up with all and sundry thinking they can have a free pop at me and my psyche and tell me (and the world) I'm obnoxious, ignorant, racist, intellectually challenged or whatever. It's you guys who need your heads examining. Lynch mob mentally appears to rule around here. You should all be ashamed!!
Oh, dear, and wasn't it just yesterday I was called a "drug/booze fuelled *******" because I liked to hang out pass 4 AM? :o Judgemental? Rude? You tell me.Mirror, mirror on the wall
Who's the fairest of them all
The name would begin with Q, as I've never passed judgement or been personally rude to any of you.
No, I think you're in full blown "How dare you persecute me" mode. I don't know why since you 've done nothing wrong. Either way, I like it. Check that mirror. I think it cracked the last time you took a look.Oh! Am I being self righteous again? Or just telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
Think on it!!
No Longer Charting
NickNack: There you go again, making 2+2 add up to 7.
I didn't call you an *******. What I did say was something along the lines of "how could you write that drugged/boozed punters were OK when you yourself had your DJ career come to an end because of over dependance one of the substances. Wouldn't those punters be in a slightly unhinged condition and wouldn't their altered states of mind be a less than reliable guage of how good or bad a disco or DJ was?" Not once did I call you an *******. I was merely casting doubt on your assertion that drug /booze fuelled punters were OK or should be given excessive credence as reliable barometers of taste".
As to the rest of the above. Let's agree to disagree. This public slanging match is doing neither of us any good in the longer term and quite frankly I'm tired of having to defend my every word, to all and sundry.
We already had a "let's out Quinny" type of subject a couple of months ago, where I came off just short of evens. This, however, is getting to be like McCarthy in the early '50s and we all know how ridiculous that ended up.
Gold Record [Level 7]
I reckon old Quinny was just trying to say that Shakatak were riding on the coat-tails of black music, like so many other white artists have. But as we all know, they've done many an album through out the years.They truly love the music they make. It's unfair for people to criticize them because they're not black Americans and their sound is very commercial. Beyonce, Eve, and countless artists I could name, produce commercial R&B at the moment, but aren't criticized so heavily...Beyonce should be though...Cover those thighs girl. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Double Platinum Record [Level 9]
[quote="buckaroo"]I take it you're not a straight guy
Find them and destroy them!
Triple Platinum Record [Level 10]
Paul, you ole horn dawg!!! :lol:
I'll never forget your comment about someone's BUTT bein' good eatin'. I asked..."so Paul, are you a butt-licker?" and you shot back...
"I don't wanna be a freak...but I can't help myself"!!! :P :P :P LOL!!! LOL!!! LOL!!!
So what did ya say to Leanmean to make her vacate the premises? :o
Now you know she's been a confimed lover of the ladies ONLY since waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back.
I musta missed this. Do tell.
"Lost inside adorable illusion...."
DiscoMusic.com Owner / Administrator
Don't want to give the impression that I don't care by not posting on this matter so here's a quick note on my thoughts.
Nicky asked me early on if I thought he was over-reacting to Quinny's Shakatak remarks. I said no. It was obvious that there was no reason for Quinny to have made such an analogy. He assumes that ALL Black people speak that way and that is obviously not true.
Quinny's further comments and refusal to apologize tell me all I need to know about his character and everyone else can make up their minds. I have complete confidence in Nicky and respect his willingness to seek different points of view from the community.
I think Marky said it best when he stated:
Ultimately it is not me or the moderators who decide-it will be the community. They will decide whether to tolerate cynical comments, put-downs and the like or actually choose to ignore such nonesense.This isn't rocket science. It's supposed to be about the love of music--not belittling people's inferior taste. If people can't express their tastes here without fear of snide comments...what's the point of the forum?
Bernie (Bernard Lopez)
Owner/publisher of DiscoMusic.com - on the web since 1996.
DiscoMusic.com on Facebook and MySpace
Gold Record [Level 7]
Bernie, I really enjoyed reading your very last comment on this issue... I don't want to come here and be afraid that I'm gonna offend somebody just because I don't like a particular artist/song...
Hell I let everyone know that JAKKI'S - SUN, SUN, SUN bites the big one... followed by :P ... and that PATRICK HERNANDEZ's - BORN TO BE ALIVE reminds me of riding a horse and rounding up the beef... :p I wonder if I offended anyone about this? If so, please put me in my place. :oops:
As far as the fighting & bickering goes... sometimes we need to have these conversations or the site gets extremely boring...
Double Platinum Record [Level 9]
OK Marky, I'll do my best to recall the situation.Paul, you ole horn dawg!!! :lol:
I'll never forget your comment about someone's BUTT bein' good eatin'. I asked..."so Paul, are you a butt-licker?" and you shot back...
"I don't wanna be a freak...but I can't help myself"!!! :P :P :P LOL!!! LOL!!! LOL!!!
So what did ya say to Leanmean to make her vacate the premises? :o
Now you know she's been a confimed lover of the ladies ONLY since waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back.
I musta missed this. Do tell.
I think it was back last Fall. After not seeing Lean post for a while, she posted about something. Anyway I mentioned in greeting her by saying she was busy "Tipping the Velvet." This expression which I believe is British refers to cunnilingus. Coincidentally, a lesbian producer had this play on PBS with the same title. Anyway I guess that was the straw that broke the camel's back for her. She proceeded to rip me a new one. I think she commented about other references I made not necessarily to her that she didn't care for. The only other time I can remember she took exception to something I wrote was when I used the word "lesbian." She said she didn't like the word. I asked for something she might find more appropriate but I didn't get a reply and I didn't push for one.
After my genuine public apologies for unintentionally hurting her feelings I think she posted a few more times.
That's the story as best as I can recall Marky. Talk about drama around here :lol:
Oh, when you mentioned feeling left out in the PM exchanges, I meant to mention to you that the PMs are like the underground after hours clubs. I'll try and send you some if I come across anything naughty. 8)
Find them and destroy them!
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