Reply With QuoteOuch! :P
Underground Hit [Level 5]
I'm reading "Love Saves the Day" at the moment. What an immodest bunch of ego maniacs most of those featured in it are. Siano, Grosso etc ."I controlled the dancefloor, I made them sing and cry etc" "If it wasn't for me none of those guys would even be here", "I was the first to play that song, I made it a hit", "He learned all that from watching me" "The crowd couldn't believe its ears when they heard what I did". **** off!!!
The editorial is so pretentious too - "Like a weaver Mancuso would gather different fibres, knitting them together to produce an intricate musical tapestry". Bullshit! He was just playing records for fucks sake, and not even mixing them.
It does have some interesting stuff in it though. I didn't know Atlantic RFC was named after the initials of Raymond Francis Caviano - a promo guy who Warners head hunted from TK and gave his own label. He was the one who got Jim Burgess to do the mix on "Do you think I'm Sexy", though he sounds like another big headed prick who thought the world revolved around him.
It is pretty clear that none of these guys dug very deep for music. **** knows why they are so idolised.
Leather is the way forward!
Gold Record [Level 7]
Ouch! :P
What would you do without your muesli...where would you be without a bowl?
Platinum Record [Level 8]
Still, it's a damn good read isn't it, as literature at least by far the best written on the subject, with the exception of the legendary, Devastating late 2002/2003 Disco Issue of the French periodical Numero of course. Love Saves The Day is all about the American scene and the deejays and not so much about individual artists or records so perhaps the author can be pardoned for his mortal sins of not writing a chapter on Amanda Lear. Dismissing the works of Boris Midney and Patrick Adams is not acceptable, though, and he should not have totally ignored August Darnell and Ze records, either.
No Longer Charting
Leatherman: Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! At last I feel (partly) vindicated with my previous rhuminations.
Let's see who tears into you now!! Oh, but I forgot, you're not Quinny.
Tell it like it is. I'm reading.
Underground Hit [Level 5]
Hi Quinny: The moment I saw Leatherman's comments I knew that it wouldn't be long before you posted here.Originally Written by QUINNY
There's a big difference between Leatherman having an opinion based on what he's read and what you did, which was to totally dismiss a book that you hadn't read.
For what it's worth, I both agree and disagree with aspects of what Leatherman has to say, but that's besides the point - having taken the time to actually read the book, he's perfectly entitled to call it the way he sees it. The same applies to JussiK, who, like myself, considers it to be the best book written on the subject. However, until you've read it yourself Quinny, you shouldn't pre-judge. Who's to say that you might surprise yourself and actually end up liking it.
Triple Platinum Record [Level 10]
Is this book available in the U.S.? I went to Borders and they couldn't find in in their database. :roll:
"Lost inside adorable illusion...."
DiscoMusic.com Owner / Administrator
Borders should be able to look it up with this...
ISBN 0-8223-3198-5
Bernie (Bernard Lopez)
Owner/publisher of DiscoMusic.com - on the web since 1996.
DiscoMusic.com on Facebook and MySpace
Indie Release [Level 4]
My opinion is. It is interesting reading, though it concentrates too much on David Mancuso and Nicky Siano instead of Larry Levan, Tom Savarese and all the other top DJs. I think many of the opinions offered are biased from the Interview with David and Nicky.
No Longer Charting
Greg: I've never read a book in my life, so I don't reckon Love Saves The Day is going to buck the trend.
Just imagine how intelligent my comments might be if I did bother to read 'em? Now that's scary, eh!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
It's probably ignorant to say so, but some of us don't need telling things or reading things to have an opinion. It's called GUT REACTION. Ever heard of it?
Triple Platinum Record [Level 10]
Ah Q....surely you're kidding, no? :o
Never read a book in your life? Do they have "schools" in your neck o' the woods? :o
Well, if you weren't from a foreign land, you'd certainly qualify for President of the USA. The current one proudly states he doesn't read anything either. :oops:
"Lost inside adorable illusion...."
No Longer Charting
Marky: I kid you not, but unlike George W, not reading books doesn't mean I don't read anything at all!! I went through hell in infant school 'cos I refused to read. They put me with the dunces and it was only my artistic bent that pulled me through to the 'A' stream, where I was nearly always top of the class.
Like albums, I've always found books boring and too lengthy to hold my attention.
Underground Hit [Level 5]
I'm not saying its not an interesting book but the way these guys go on you'd think they invented the wheel, not segued a few very obvious records together. Also, I personally doubt the historical importance of what most them did. Fair enough Tom Moulton - at least he actually produced the first extended mixes, cut the first 12" etc. I'm not convinced Siano, Grosso etc made much difference to anyone, apart from the drug fuelled dancers who went to the clubs they played at.
Trouble is, I think these guys have had one too many Japanese/European dance music would be intellectual journo type sucking their c**ks and they now believe their own bullshit.
Leather is the way forward!
Double Platinum Record [Level 9]
Sorry, Leatherman, but I can't agree with you here. I don't know about Grosso but I was there with Siano at the beginning of The Gallery. Do you know how many NYC lofts were being turned into places to dance in for gay people in 1974? Especially Black people? That's right, you can count them on one hand. Back then, it was Mancuso and Siano. That's it! They were the afterhours club scene for gays in the City for quite a while. And, the afterhours is very, very different from the bar scene. These DJs had reputations, clubs and sound systems that were unrivaled. I was working the door at The Gallery. This wasn't just a NYC crowd. We had people travelling the east coast to get in --- and it was a PRIVATE CLUB. That meant your ass could be standing outside all night. They didn't care. This was the place to be. We had regular members from Jersey, Philadelphia and DC because they wanted to make sure they got in.
When the regular bars closed at 4 AM, the number of DJs that flocked to these two afterhours was large. They wanted to hear what was being played (Mancuso) and how it was being played (Siano). These guys 'broke' records to the public. You can't just sell them short because you don't appreciate their egos. Yeah, they might sound full of themselves (I've got to get this book :) ) but a lot of it is true. It wasn't just 'seguing a few very obvious records'. :o Beat mixing was in it's beginnings and Siano was one of the best.
BTW -- what's wrong with drug-fuelled dancers? 8)
No Longer Charting
Nicky: What's right about drug fuelled dancers?
IMO: Jeez, anybody will dance and whoop it up if they're high enough (on drugs or booze). Doesn't make 'em hip or good. Just makes 'em drug or booze fuelled assholes. Did the booze do you any good? Nooooooo. By your own admission, it totally screwed you up, so how could these guys be any better?
If you guys really thought you were igniting the world by getting a few hundred drug fuelled, screwed up punters whoopin' and hollerin' you were only fooling yourselves. Let's be a little honest and serious here. DJing was part of a very seedy twilight world and DJs played to some seriously maladjusted people who had nothing better to do than get high, dance and look for a shag. Life in a nutshell maybe and possibly the best attitude to have on life, until you really get your act together and realise what a really dumbass thing it was to do.
I got pissed, I took some drugs, but I was never under any illusion that what I was doing was the best thing I could be doing.
Underground Hit [Level 5]
Hey NN, you were there - I wasn't, so fairplay.Sorry, Leatherman, but I can't agree with you here. I don't know about Grosso but I was there with Siano at the beginning of The Gallery. Do you know how many NYC lofts were being turned into places to dance in for gay people in 1974? Especially Black people? That's right, you can count them on one hand. Back then, it was Mancuso and Siano. That's it! They were the afterhours club scene for gays in the City for quite a while. And, the afterhours is very, very different from the bar scene. These DJs had reputations, clubs and sound systems that were unrivaled. I was working the door at The Gallery. This wasn't just a NYC crowd. We had people travelling the east coast to get in --- and it was a PRIVATE CLUB. That meant your ass could be standing outside all night. They didn't care. This was the place to be. We had regular members from Jersey, Philadelphia and DC because they wanted to make sure they got in.
When the regular bars closed at 4 AM, the number of DJs that flocked to these two afterhours was large. They wanted to hear what was being played (Mancuso) and how it was being played (Siano). These guys 'broke' records to the public. You can't just sell them short because you don't appreciate their egos. Yeah, they might sound full of themselves (I've got to get this book :) ) but a lot of it is true. It wasn't just 'seguing a few very obvious records'. :o Beat mixing was in it's beginnings and Siano was one of the best.
BTW -- what's wrong with drug-fuelled dancers? 8)
I'm not saying Siano wasn't important to the people who regularly visited the Gallery, but I don't think he historically made that much difference to the evolution of club music.
With regards to the music he played I'm just judging from the playlists I've seen in this book and in other similiar articles. It all seems to be major label, major artist stuff. You get the impression they weren't searching out obscure 7"'s or LP cuts, unless it was the odd thing like Barrabas that everyone was playing.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with drug fuelled dancers (I've been there myself on occasion), but those substances obviously drastically alter the perspective of the people on them. When I hear these stories crediting the DJ with "taking people on a journey/telling a story" of some other bull, I am sceptical that these people would feel the same way if they had been in the same club on the same night but without the drugs. It was the drugs that took them on a journey and the music was the sound track for that. Would they have had the same journey or been told the same story if they had heard those records during the day completely straight? I very much doubt it. So when I hear about DJ weaving this incredible tapestry far greater that sum total of the individual records he played I tend to dismiss it as either - A. Pretentious crap on the part of the author or B. Unobjective and distorted memories of a drug fuelled night.
Leather is the way forward!
Triple Platinum Record [Level 10]
If y'all think the dance club experience was a "bullshit" waste of time....why do ya care to read about it? Why do you visit this site? I'm not gettin' the hate-vibe. :o
Don't be a hater. :roll:
"Lost inside adorable illusion...."
Underground Hit [Level 5]
I'm not on "the hate vibe". However, I do want to discuss and question the some of the opinions passed in this book. Surely that's what people do who are interested in a subject? :roll:
Leather is the way forward!
Triple Platinum Record [Level 10]
The cult of a DJ is difficult to understand if one is not in the cult; if one has not experienced their "magic" in a club setting. I realized this at the Troc reunion when a friend seemed to think we were Jonestown freaks about to drink the poisoned Kool-aid as we were madly applauding Bobby Viteritti and dancing to his mix of "Follow Me". My friend slipped away to watch from a distance.
Unless you were there, you can't get it. It's easy to mutter "bullshit"...but if you have magical memories of musical journeys 20 years later...it obviously had a deeper impact. One man's "b.s." is another man's "magical memory. Go figure.
"Lost inside adorable illusion...."
Gold Record [Level 7]
Maybe my experience during this one visit to this local club is what they mean with this book’s description; In this club the DJ was segueing and arranging his music in a way that he was "Conveying " a message to the crowd through lyrics and/or song tittles, (IMO something extremely difficult to do) unless you were a club regular (private club) or familiar with the DJ's music and his routine you wouldn’t know what was happening, also the crowds had to be very knowledgeable of club music to be able to follow the message, ( he used current and old cuts) and they were jumping and screaming after picking up the next portion of the message, (even if the mix was not great), so this were hardcore party animals to begin with and they probably did this every week, definitely something unique (especially in DJ mixing technique) which I never experience before or after again.
Double Platinum Record [Level 9]
Quinny: I was going to respond to you but then I remembered you don't fucking exist to me so take your righteous indignation and pose your questions to anyone but me. This is not the board's moderator talking, this is Nicky, personally, and you damn sure know where I'm coming from. 'Honest and serious' my ass!
Leatherman: I understand what you're saying but at times I can't figure out for the life of me what it is you guys are looking for when it comes to "the evolution of club music". Maybe you guys overseas were always on the hunt for imports and the odd piece but that didn't happen here until later. Your imports were mostly our majors. The music was good enough as it was and what was being done with these 2:30 45s and lp cuts had peoples' heads spinning on the dancefloors. We knew the way we were hearing it from the booth was not the way we bought it at the record store. Having said that, I never would have purchased Babe Ruth, Chuck Mangione, MFSB, Herbie Hancock, Grover Washington and yes, Barrabas, if I had not heard them in the club. Major label artists? Mostly. Pop radio music? Not at all. These DJs were hunting in their own way. Introducing us to things we wouldn't ordinarily hear and putting 'the fear' into the radio jocks.
As for us "drug and booze-fuelled assholes", yeah, we came to play. But you can forget that bullshit about 'screaming and dancing to anything'. A good DJ could make our night. Give us a bad DJ and we'll ruin his. I've watched DJs get their feelings hurt, get their equipment ruined, lose their damn jobs because they couldn't cut it. Maybe the crowds overseas got blown away and dealt with anything the guy behind the tables shelled out. Not here.. not NYC... not by a very long shot.
It's like Marky said: If you've never experienced a club scene like this, you have no idea what it was like. You can analyze it, break it down and tear it apart all you like. For those of us who were there, the 'magic' was being woven.
Oh, one more thing (Art back me up): When I went to other afterhours to hear the guys play I was sober. Why? Because they didn't sell alcohol and I didn't take drugs. Unless 'Mommy'
No Longer Charting
Hmm, wonder what I've done? Nice olive branch you've handed me there, Nicky.
BTW: not righteous indignation Nicky, just the realisation (at the age of 52, with 25 years to think about it) that in the whole scheme of things, Disco wasn't all it was cracked up to be.
I'll pose my above questions to everyone else then.
What's so good about drug/booze fuelled audiences?
Who, in their right mind, would think they were changing the course of history by thinking that the responses to the records they played to a load of drug/booze fuelled punters were anything more than instant reactions that were on the whole instantly forgetable? Now, if a DJ played to relatively sober people who'd paid $100 upwards for a ticket and were serious music lovers, I might begin to accept the notion that these DJs were gods.
If DJs took people on a journey, wouldn't that suggest that they had a deliberate, pre-planned playlist that ignored any real interaction between DJ and punters. I thought the great DJs were the ones who could read an audience an respond? Isn't that what everyone said in an earlier thread?
The one overall emotion I remember as a DJ was the constant fear that the next record would clear the dancefloor and the mental effort involved.
I'm with Leatherman: Bullshit baffles brains.
Indie Release [Level 4]
Drug/booze fuelled audiences? Their response to the music, their willingness not to leave the dance floor when something new came on....
I don't think any DJ set out from his apartment determined to change the course of history. Saying to himself as he hauled his music crates from apartment to cab, "OK, THIS IS IT! TONIGHT I CHANGE THE COURSE OF HISTORY!" He set out to the best he could.
The Journey. Any DJ who claims his evenings are/were completely unplanned are lying. You spend most of your free time practicing and honing your skills, weaving the new stuff into your reportoire of records, the result of which were short sets that we knew would work the crowd, and it was in the club and gauging that dance floor full of drug fuelled people that we would know where to take it. It was about knowing your music and your crowd...so the journey was a combination of the DJ's talent and the crowd response. One thing about a journey...you have to be willing to go on it.
As for being drug fuelled, yes I was at the time. I also remember specific nights as if they had happenned last weekend and specific mixes also. Robbie overlaying a symphonic orchestra ending over Magic Bird of Fire and Nicky overlaying the slow intro to "Heart to Break The Heart" over the pretty part of Make That Feeling Come Again are clear in my mind, and you know what, they had to be practiced beforehand...
Enough
Art
DiscoMusic.com Owner / Administrator
Oh poor Quinny, always so misunderstood. Give it a break as you are not being profound by any stretch of the imagination. Instead of insulting everyone with your thinly disguised remarks perhaps you should forgo pressing the "Submit" button next time.
Bernie (Bernard Lopez)
Owner/publisher of DiscoMusic.com - on the web since 1996.
DiscoMusic.com on Facebook and MySpace
No Longer Charting
Is it something I've said? Oh bloody dear, I'm in trouble again. :cry: Was that world weary enough for ya's?Oh poor Quinny, always so misunderstood. Give it a break as you are not being profound by any stretch of the imagination. Instead of insulting everyone with your thinly disguised remarks perhaps you should forgo pressing the "Submit" button next time.
You guys really are on another planet if you seriously feel that I post here with the intent to insult you (thinly veiled or otherwise). I wish I knew where you're coming from.
One man's profound is another's crass comment. One man's scream is another's whimper. One man's brilliant mix is another's crapola. What can I say? So you don't agree with me.....fine. Just leave it at that, eh?
BTW: Believe it or not, quite often I wrestle with my conscience before hitting the submit button. I do care.
Indie Release [Level 4]
This is true, if we hadn't all lived in the city at the time, Nicky & Bill would've been our designated drivers for the evening! :lol: :lol:Oh, one more thing (Art back me up): When I went to other afterhours to hear the guys play I was sober. Why? Because they didn't sell alcohol and I didn't take drugs. Unless 'Mommy'
And Mommy was known to stick her finger in our mouths with something extra on the tip every now and then...
Art
The Pounding Drums, The Flashing Lights...
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