Marvin Gaye

[efunk_adelic]

Hi Everyone,


just wanted to get some opinions here.... I recently heard Marvin Gaye's Sexual Healing on the radio. I was wondering if his influence on the world could have saved R&B from basically being instinct?

[Forrrce]

I'm not too sure what you mean here, efunk, but I will say that the kids just don't have it anymore. Listen to the maturity in the voices of Marvin, Isaac Hayes, Bobby Womack, Otis Redding, James Carr, Bobby Bland, etc. - and ask yourself, where's it all gone? Where's the next generation?

I honestly think the youngsters these days just don't lead hard enough lives, nor have much to truly rebel against. So many of their voices are simply devoid of emotion and purpose. They relentlessly model their cliched 'stylings' on Stevie Wonder, Charlie Wilson, Donny Hathaway and Marvin Gaye and really don't have a clue what it's all about.

The men sound like boys, the women sound like girls - and ultimately, they all sound like one another. Never mind rare records - the rarest commodity in these times is talent. It's something you just don't need anymore, because standards are at an all-time low - and slipping.

[efunk_adelic]

Ok Forrrce, I should've elaborated more.... I know this is kind of a shot in the dark... Let's pretend Marvin never died. Do you think if he was still alive and making hits... do you think he would've still had an impact on music today?


I realize that his last effort had Sexual Healing... but that was really the top hit on the LP and nothing else stood out.

Or it doesn't matter because Marvin was on his way out... and his music was not as polished as it was in the 60-70's.

What are everyone's thoughts...

[K-Bee]

I'm not it sure it would matter that much if Marvin was still around. I mean, if you look at other legendary artist and how they turned out to be in the 90s and today (Stevie Wonder's more recent work comes to mind), chances are the same would have happened to Marvin .
(unfortunately :cry: )

The music industry seem to be obsessed with youth and sex over vocals and sheer talent today. I'm afraid even marvin wouldn't be able to cope with that! (unless he would start doin' porn flicks like Snoop Dogg or something :lol: :o )

[Forrrce]

I don't think Marvin's mortality would have made any difference to today's music, either, unless he came up with with strong, original material. The elder statesmen who were around to make records throughout the '80s and '90s had all fallen off somewhat, simply because they'd run out of creative steam - or their styles just don't suit the tinny, electronic, sample driven yawn that 'R&B' has become over the last 15 years.

The (recent) Temptations and Isley Brothers records, to name examples, could be made by anybody, really - though they at least have the advantage of being vocally distinct.

Considering how influential Marvin was in his prime - churning out sub-standard, run-with-the-pack fillers to this day may have worked against him. He could well be observed as a tired old has-been and not the slightly tragic genius...and sometimes, only premature death can bestow such status on an individual.

[Nano]

Another reason to doubt of Marvin's success today is his physical state at the time he died. I mean, the man was permanently high for, like, the last 15 years of his life (this by his own words). And since 1975 he snorted cocaine like it was aspirin. All this caused creative lumps and career-managing madness on his last years.
When his father shot him, he was home without a project and trying once again to recover from his addictions. Chances are he could have died from an overdose just some weeks later.
At least this is the state of matters as told by David Ritz, Marvin's official biographer, in his book "Divided soul: the life of Marvin Gaye". I have some minor odds with Ritz' work, but it seems mostly accurate and with first-hand accounting.

[buckaroo]

There's no doubt in my mind that Marvin would've been sidelined by the oncoming massiveness of hip-hop and rap music, which was just on the horizon when he died. Although he spent over a year with some friends in Belgium in a vain attempt to purge himself of his demons, upon his return to LA they haunted him yet again.

Had he not died, you can just imagine how the press would've portrayed the once magnificent Marvin, as a now tragic shadow of his former self.

[SandraDee]

As Gore Vidal once said when Truman Capote died, 'great career move'! :o :lol:

[efunk_adelic]

Had he not died, you can just imagine how the press would've portrayed the once magnificent Marvin, as a now tragic shadow of his former self.

The press just like to bag on people.... nobody can take away what he accomplished. He was a true icon. :)

[Nano]

You know, when I look at some of these guys' careers in the 80s (like Bobby Womack) it's hard not figuring the same fate would have embraced the great Marvin. The guys just went to make slick, lifeless productions surrounded by electric drumming and female voices screeching... D'oh! :x

[markydefad]

If Marvin had lived... his fate might be guest judging gigs on "American Idol" I fear. :evil: :evil: :evil:

Al Green has kept his dignity. Stevie and Smokey sorta rest on their past achievements.

Time moves on. Everything must change. Die young--stay pretty. Choose your cliche'; Die before you become outre'.

On Hollywood Blvd.......the LEGENDS that remain fascinating to today's fans are Marilyn, Elvis & James Dean. Their images are everywhere. Why? Because they died early enough so that their youthful images remained relatively intact. (OK, Elvis got fat...but it's easier to recall "Jailhouse Rock" Elvis than fried banana sandwich eatin' porker Vegas Elvis. If Elvis were alive today looking like Marlon Brando or Marilyn was still around looking like Zsa Zsa Gabor....would we care? Well, maybe...but would we care as much? Hmmmm.... :o

[Videoskooter]

A couple of months ago we had a celebration here. Marvin Gaye has lived here and that was remembered. A close friend of him told that he found new inspiration staying in Ostend. Then, "Sexual healing" brought him back to the top.

I don't know what would have happened if he was still around. I don't think he would sell out. Perhaps he would work with Dr. Dre, who knows. Or Prince?? Yes!!!

[zeca azevedo]

You know, when I look at some of these guys' careers in the 80s (like Bobby Womack) it's hard not figuring the same fate would have embraced the great Marvin. The guys just went to make slick, lifeless productions surrounded by electric drumming and female voices screeching... D'oh! :x

Hi Nano,

I have to disagree with you on this topic. You see, we can pick Stevie Wonder as an example. From 1985 to this day, he released many albums that are not as great as his 60's or 70's output, but there is some great, great music there. On 1985 IN A SQUARE CIRCLE, you have OVERJOYED, a truly beautiful ballad. On CHARACTERS, there's a masterpiece called WITH EVERY BEAT OF MY HEART, one of the best recordings Stevie ever made, period. And Skeletons is a great groover in my opinion. I even think YOU WILL KNOW is beautiful too. There's some duds on the albums, but hey, who's perfect? Let's see more: the JUNGLE FEVER soundtrack contains not 1, not 2, but 3 magnificent songs, THESE THREE WORDS, MAKE SURE YOU'RE SURE (marvellous song) and CHEMICAL LOVE. And his last studio album, CONVERSATION PIECE, it is very underrated in my opinion. On this album you can find more gems like TABOO TO LOVE, MY LOVE IS WITH YOU, FOR YOUR LOVE and TREAT MYSELF.

I think the text above express my opinion about the original topic here, what if Marvin Gaye... I'm sure he'll be doing great music and some duds if he lived, even if his voice was beggining to loose some edge right before he died.

BTW, about Bobby Womack: TRADITIONS is a beautiful record, just check it, NANO.

Peace,

zeca azevedo, a natural wonder

[Nano]

Hi Zeca! Long time no see!

I didn't mention Stevie I think, but yes, you're right in that I hardly heard again one of his 80s-90s records. In fact, some days ago I put the "Woman in Red" soundtrack on the turntable to remember old times and was astonished at the bad quality of the record. Of course, there's "It's you", one of his best ballads ever. But that's Stevie's trick: he always throw in one good one to make us believe. I remember when "Conversation peace" came out, I worked in a music mag and had waited for that record for years on end. He even has Prince in a couple of songs! (check for some weird pseudonyms on the credits). And the results are awful! Only the title song resembles something of what this guy has made in the past.
You're right, "Overjoyed" is a great song, Jungle Fever is even a good album. But the rest? I'm sorry but I can hardly agree, in fact I was one of the most dissapointed fans of Stevie since "Square circle" and that blatant rip-off right from one of Hall & Oates biggest singles, "Maneater". This is one of those things we now blame the rappers for! And most of the music is so deflated, like he's working for the numbers. Anyway, this is all IMHO and I envy you for still enjoying him.

Hey, I will check out that Womack record for sure! Thanks and please tolerate this ranting above. :roll:

BTW, it seems you're moved. How's the weather on Chongas Mongas? :)

[zeca azevedo]

Hi Nano,

the weather here in chongas mongas is freezin' cold, but at least it's not raining men (bad joke :D ) . I know lots of people who cant stand Stevie Wonder's 80's and 90's music at all, so, as Jacko and R. Kelly, our 2nd favorite odd couple said once, "you are not alone". The songs I've mentioned on my post are wonderful and truly a work of the genius we knew as Stevie Wonder. About Maneater: this Hall & Oates hit is a blatant copy of the old MOTOWN SOUND, the 60's sound of Supremes, Four Tops and yes, STEVIE WONDER! The bass line used in Maneater is, er, inspired by the wonderful bass line James Jamerson did on YOU CAN'T HURRY LOVE. If you listen carefully to some stuff made in the early-mid 80's, you'll see that there's lots of songs influenced by the 60's sound of MOTOWN: MANEATER, WAKE ME UP BEFORE YOU GO GO (ugh), TRUE BLUE by MADONNA and... YOU CAN'T HURRY LOVE by PHIL COLLINS (oh, no). There's more 60'S MOTOWN "inspired" songs released in the 80's, but I can't remember all of them right now (anyone can help me here, please?). So, STEVIE WONDER has turned back to his 60's sound when he did his 80's blockbusters - I JUST CALLED TO SAY I LOVE YOU and PART TIME LOVER.

About MARVIN GAYE: I wish he lived enough to make some weak records too...

Peace,

zeca azevedo, you can call me teddy bear anytime you want, baby

[SandraDee]

More 60s inspired 80s tracks that immediately spring to mind guys:
'Freeway Of Love - Aretha ('85)
'In Private' - Dusty ('89)
'Chain Reaction' - Diana ('86)
'Let Me Wake Up In Your Arms' - Lulu (OK it's 90s but it's the same team behind it as 'Chain Reaction')
'Bad Boy' - Miami Sound Machine ('86)
'Working My Way Back to You' - Detroit Spinners ('80)
'Really Saying Something' - Bananarama ('82)
'What' - Soft Cell ('82)
'Sorry Wrong Number' - Evelyn Thomas ('84)
'Heartache Avenue' - Maisonettes ('82)

There must be loads more. 8)

[zeca azevedo]

More 60s inspired 80s tracks that immediately spring to mind guys:
'Freeway Of Love - Aretha ('85)
'In Private' - Dusty ('89)
'Chain Reaction' - Diana ('86)
'Let Me Wake Up In Your Arms' - Lulu (OK it's 90s but it's the same team behind it as 'Chain Reaction')
'Bad Boy' - Miami Sound Machine ('86)
'Working My Way Back to You' - Detroit Spinners ('80)
'Really Saying Something' - Bananarama ('82)
'What' - Soft Cell ('82)
'Sorry Wrong Number' - Evelyn Thomas ('84)
'Heartache Avenue' - Maisonettes ('82)

There must be loads more. 8)

Thanx Steely, you've saved a senile member of this forum (me)! And you're right, there's loads of 80's songs like these.

Cheers Steely :D ,

zeca azevedo, just an old grumpy man

[SandraDee]

zeca azevedo, just an old grumpy man

Don't worry about it Zeca, I'm very much aware that I'm becoming quite grumpy myself lately. Must be 'cos I'm heading for the big 40 next year! :( :lol:

[zeca azevedo]

zeca azevedo, just an old grumpy man

Don't worry about it Zeca, I'm very much aware that I'm becoming quite grumpy myself lately. Must be 'cos I'm heading for the big 40 next year! :( :lol:

Hey STEELY,

youre heading for the big 40 next year? I will do 42 next week!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

zeca azevedo, a true gerontocrat :lol:

[SandraDee]

I will do 42 next week!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

zeca azevedo, a true gerontocrat :lol:

Best wishes Zeca; that makes you a Leo! As I put on my horoscope thread a few weeks ago, that's my favourite sign. :P

[efunk_adelic]

If Marvin had lived... his fate might be guest judging gigs on "American Idol" I fear. :evil: :evil: :evil:

I can just see him trying to hit on Paula Abdul.... :roll:

[jazz_pilgrim]

There must be loads more. 8)

Thanx Steely, you've saved a senile member of this forum (me)! And you're right, there's loads of 80's songs like these.

Cheers Steely :D ,

zeca azevedo, just an old grumpy man

The best current tune that fits this bill is the WICKEDLY CATCHY Coming Back from SMOOTH feat JESS ROBERTS.

Northern Soul in 2004?? You betcha!! :D DISCODISk - have you heard this one?? The organ hook is a KILLER !!!

In answer to the Marvin Gaye question, I tend to agree with my good friend Zeca, the Philly Man :D. Yeah, he might have made a few duds, but with a voice like that, there would have been some gems as well!

Taking the debate FURTHER, I often wonder: What would have happened if the might Otis Redding (the best of 'em all, maybe??) had not been killed in that plane crash at the age of 26? What FANTASIC MUSIC would he have made??

BTW1 Zeca, I understand a NEW Stevie Wonder CD is IMMINENT!

BTW2 Happy Birthday for next week, my friend!! I am 42, errr, ... and a little bit more!! :oops: (43 to be exact!)

:)

[zeca azevedo]

I will do 42 next week!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

zeca azevedo, a true gerontocrat :lol:

Best wishes Zeca; that makes you a Leo! As I put on my horoscope thread a few weeks ago, that's my favourite sign. :P

Hey Steely,

thanx for your kind words, man :D . Yes, I'm a LEO, not the king of the forests anymore, just an old'n'tired pussycat. :roll: Just like our favorite philosopher ALAN PARSONS said once, "Time keeps flowing like a river/to the sea..." :lol:

JAZZMAN, welcome back :D ! Yes, there's a new Stevie Wonder album about to be released. It is called A TIME 2 LOVE, correct me if I'm wrong. I bet there's at least one classic song there too!

Peace,

zeca azevedo, 8)