Disappointing Disco

[SandraDee]

I read with interest Maarten's disappointment with Rimshots 'Superdisco' track (which I think is excellent by the way) as it reminded me of last year when I bought 2 LPs by Roberta Kelly after hearing so many people mention her records favourably. I thought they were both dreadful & was very disappointed because I'm a huge fan of Giorgio M's work with Donna, Suzi Lane, 3 Degrees, Sparks et al. He really must've had a couple of off days when he did Roberta's stuff!
Has anyone else been disappointed with material that is generally held in high esteem by the 'discognescenti'?

[markydefad]

Which Roberta Kelly stuff? Certainly not "Think I'm Gonna Break Someone's Heart Tonight" or "Love Power" from "Troublemaker" or the "Gettin' The Spirit" LP ( not Giorgio--Bob Esty I think)

I'm with Maarten on "Superdisco" by Rimshots .

Also, "Moonboots" by O.R.S.

They're OK, but I would never consider them favorites.

"Hunchback Of Notre Dame" by Costandinos sucks bigtime. This was the only thing I had by him until recently. Therefore, I couldn't understand the reverence that board members had for him. Having heard some more of his stuff....dare I say it....I still don't really get it. (oops, can open...worms everywhere, Sorry Jeff, I stole your line)

I also never cared much for the Midney stuff; those cooing, anonymous female vocals with insipid lyrics (i.e "Boggie Motion") turned me off back in the day. I have more respect now, but not that much.

Also, the Rinder & Lewis stuff. "Cocomotion"--gag me.

Ok, lessee, who haven't I offended?

Give me a Tom Moulton Mix or a Georgio Moroder production anyday!!!

[SandraDee]

I've taken them to my Dads house so I can't check but I think one was called Zodiac Lady & the other might've been Troublemaker.

I disagree with u about the anonymous female vocals; I think they r one of the best things about Disco! (along with the orgasms,outrageous orchestrations & camp percussive breaks).
I'd never heard Moonboots b4 (it certainly doesnt sound like usual Salsoul stuff) but I think it sounds OK on the top 500.

[DJ P]

Disapointing Disco, well I disagree with 'Marky' as I enjoyed the 'Beautiful Bend' 'Boris Midney' production. There has been so many Disco endervors that has produced horrible/forgettable music. Even with the 'PR' (Promotin/Advertising) of many forgettable releases, we enjoyed them at that time. There are many a song that I danced too or spinned that I enjoyed at that time frame, but now would never want/dance/or play now. That was the magic of that time. We ENJOYED the moment, we may have forgotten the song, or the artist. We may never want to hear (or really remember) the song again, but we ENJOYED THE MOMENT in time. That is what is wonderful about Mr. Lopez's site. It allows us to talk about the songs,styles and all the 'if's and but's' of that time frame and enjoy it!!!!!! We have the ability to ask about song's that we might only remember a bit of the lyrics and someone will (Lord willing) will answer or request. Yes there was alot of 'trash' (thankfully I saved the sleeves and cover for other lps), but that 'trash' in that moment in time was a diamond. Next week it was trash, but that night, with that right partner-It was HEAVEN!!!!!!! That is the beauty of this site. Remember, treasure and NEVER forget the time/moment. All the best, DJ Phil

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DJ Phil on 2002-05-08 18:03 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DJ Phil on 2002-05-08 18:05 ]</font>

[BrunoRepublic]

On 2002-05-08 16:29, markydefad wrote:
"Hunchback Of Notre Dame" by Costandinos sucks bigtime. This was the only thing I had by him until recently. Therefore, I couldn't understand the reverence that board members had for him. Having heard some more of his stuff....dare I say it....I still don't really get it. (oops, can open...worms everywhere, Sorry Jeff, I stole your line)

Oh Marky! How can you say such things? Have you not heard such delights like "How Much, How Much I Love You" or "Trocadero Suite"?

I also never cared much for the Midney stuff; those cooing, anonymous female vocals with insipid lyrics (i.e "Boggie Motion") turned me off back in the day. I have more respect now, but not that much.

Can be trying at times, but tracks like "Make That Feeling Come Again" and "There's A Way Into My Heart" make it all worthwhile.

Also, the Rinder & Lewis stuff. "Cocomotion"--gag me.

BLASPHEMY!!

Okay, the lyrics are cheesy, but Cocomotion is one of the funkiest, slickest, take-you-to-a-beautiful-paraside tracks out there. The bass line alone is incredible. And how can you dismiss R & L like that? Have you not heard "Blue Steel", "Lust", "Afrodesia", or "Le Spank" which even features the Jones Girls?

Ok, lessee, who haven't I offended?

Maybe Fantomas? :lol:

[disco1999]

After all those years, I still really enjoy Moonboots by O.R.S. although Giorgio was not involved in it, it has a Moroderish sound. Maybe surprisingly for some, I'd make it in my all time top25 disco dance track.

[nrgbeat]

I was never crazy about "Hills of Katmandu" by Tantra and I don't think "Lay All Your Love On Me" was one of Abba's best even though it was a big dance hit.

[markydefad]

Graham,

When I finished writing my little diatribe, I thought "uh-oh, graham is gonna rip me a new you-know-what--I'm pissing on all his favorites". I don't mean to be so down on your faves, I just don't always GET them. And, admittedly, I haven't heard all their stuff. But, when I do hear their stuff...it doesn't move me. I was raised on Motown and Philly Soul, so I guess the absence of strong, powerful, soulful voices has something to do with it. Coooing, chanting female vocals seem cheesy to me. Silly vocals and silly lyrics sorta grate--but then I do love ABBA, so go figure. But on the other hand, I can't stand Boney M.

Hey, I'm not saying I hate Costandinos, Midney or Rinder & Lewis. I just haven't loved any of their stuff enough to have ever put it on a tape. I guess that's the bottom line. And again, especially in the Costandinos case, I have not heard all the best stuff, I guess. But what I have heard hasn't really made me want to pay big bucks to acquire more. Does that make sense?

A perfect Disco record for me is "This Will Be A Night to Remember" by Eddie Holman. On Salsoul from 1977, Tom Moulton Mix, Salsoul strings & propulsive rhythm section, incredible pounding piano , a soaring falsetto lead vocal, great backup vocals (ooo-ooo, i got a feeling/ this will be a night to remember": this is what turns me on. I still remember the day I found this record in pretty beat-up condition at Prime Cuts. There was a big skip in it--but when I saw that title I had an instant flashback to dancing to it and never knowing who did it. I grabbed it and played it over and over and over again. I did finally get a copy on CD--so I don't have to hear all those pops, clicks, & skips. But this is the type of record that I cherish. Make any sense?

Graham, thanks for not taking it too personally. I think it's great you love that stuff and maybe in time, I'll appreciate it more.

[markydefad]

On 2002-05-08 19:47, nrgbeat wrote:
I was never crazy about "Hills of Katmandu" by Tantra and I don't think "Lay All Your Love On Me" was one of Abba's best even though it was a big dance hit.

I was gonna shut up for awhile, but then I read this. I agree that the Tantra was a bit of a pain. When it would come on--I'd think "Oh ****, 15 minutes of this. Do I have to go to the bathroom? Do I need a new drink?"

But, in retrospect I can see that it is interesting....just too long, too repetitive, maybe overplayed back in the day.

Hey I got sick of lots of stuff in SF, especially the stuff produced in SF: Patrick Cowley (especially "Menergy" & "Megatron Man"), Sylvester's "Do you Wanna Funk", Boystown Gang, etc. They played the **** out of these records. Lime was another one. Keefe reminded me how we used to time our arrival at Troc hoepfully AFTER this stuff had been played...so we didn't have to hear it YET AGAIN!!!!! Snobs that we were, we wanted to hear morning music or something new and provacative...not , as Nicky once called it, the "tourist music".

However, nrgbeat, I disagree with you on the ABBA "Lay All Your Love On Me"; the Disconet remix is one of my alltime favorite tracks and a stunning example of remixing, IMHO.

_________________
Make My Feet Wanna Dance!

Markydefad

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: markydefad on 2002-05-09 15:16 ]</font>

[maarten]

See - this is why this place is so great. I like this, you like that, and maybe I pick something up from your likes that I didn't know and vice versa.

Personally, I am more with "Marky's" music style - I like soulful, (dare I say it) almost gospel like vocals. I love hammond organs and a piano solo. I love a funky bassline, preferably souped-up through a synth. I love Brazilian-like breaks (The Break - Katmandu, Give me a break - Vivian Vee). And I love an orchestra - Love Unlimited Orchestra, Salsoul Orchestra, MFSB, Cerrone, Don Ray, or any band/act that used them effectively (Chic, Jacques Fred Petrus, Quincy Jones).

I also like funk, but not the James Brown/Parliament variety, but the Lenny White/Watsonian Institute/Aquarian Dream/Xavier/Slave/Aurra kind of funk.

But what do you care. Please keep liking what you like - as long as you share. I like to learn!

PS Abba is not, I repeat NOT disco. I like their 70's stuff, especially "Honey Honey".

[sirius]

What´s wrong with ROBERTA KELLY? Have you
ever heard "Troublemaker", "Zodiacs" or
"Love Power"??? Certainly she cannot be
compared with DONNA, but who can compared
with her...
"The Hunchback Of Notre Dame" from COSTAN-
DINOS is also a very fine concept album...
not the best from him, but very romantic.
But I really hate ABBA...because I cannot
hear THIS **** anymore...ABBA was never
Disco, except a few songs from them...
I´ll never played ABBA on my parties,
although people are asking for...Why don´t
we talk about REAL GOOD DISCO-MUSIC?
Cosmic Love & Kisses From SIRIUS & DARKTUNES

[markydefad]

On 2002-05-08 18:13, Graham Start wrote:

Ok, lessee, who haven't I offended?

Maybe Fantomas? :lol:

[/quote]

Ok, let's make it a clean sweep. The James Brown "Give It Up or Turnit Loose" recorded LIVE in Augusta , GA SUCKS!!!!

(Actually, I found a James Brown double LP at Amoeba that said "recorded "LIVE" in Augusta, GA in 1970" and it had a medley that had "Give It Up or Turnit Loose" (6:26), so I asked my favorite clerk whether I should pay $18.98 for it? He promptly found the same item on CD for $10.98. So I kissed his feet and thought, hey I'll finally get to hear and own "the greatest disco song ever"!!! Well, I unwrapped it when I got it home and had to laugh OUT LOUD when I read in the liner notes that, although everything else was recorded in Augusta, GA-- the medley with "Give It Up Or Turnit Loose" was recorded in Cincinati Ohio. Foiled again!!!! I guess there is only one copy in existence of that RARE record, inside a vault surrounded by a moat with alligators & piranha, in Miami.
For the record, I did listen and it didn't rock my world.)

Ok, and since I am an equal opportunity offender---

The Chocolats SUCK TOO!!!!!!! (so there) :lol:

Hey, Im just kidding, folks. (really)

_________________
Make My Feet Wanna Dance!

Markydefad

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: markydefad on 2002-05-09 01:42 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: markydefad on 2002-05-09 01:46 ]</font>

[Jeff H]

Uh-oh, here we go again with the ABBA is/isn't disco debate. My take on that is that they were a pop group, not a "disco" group, but that several of their songs were highly danceable (especially the remixes). So shut up and dance! Enjoy!

(Btw, Marky: I stole "can open... worms everywhere" from Chandler on Friends, so it's cool.)

As for performers I just don't get: Certainly Amanda Lear is one of them; I cannot get past that voice. And it seems that Martin Circus is highly regarded--and going for big bucks on eBay. I wanted to find out what all the fuss was about so I listened to the sample in the vault here and... well, let's just say I wouldn't bid too high for that record.

I'm also left cold by a lot of the early to mid-'70s Philly soul type songs ("I'll Always Love My Mama" comes to mind), but I think that's just because I wasn't really into dance music yet back then, not because there's anything wrong with it.

And I second Marky's comment: In retrospect, Lime really sounds pretty bad!


_________________
"...a once in a lifetime feeling that returns every week..."

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jeff H on 2002-05-09 09:23 ]</font>

[markydefad]

[quote]
On 2002-05-09 09:22, Jeff H wrote:
Uh-oh, here we go again with the ABBA is/isn't disco debate. My take on that is that they were a pop group, not a "disco" group, but that several of their songs were highly danceable (especially the remixes). So shut up and dance! Enjoy!

(Btw, Marky: I stole "can open... worms everywhere" from Chandler on Friends, so it's cool.)

As for performers I just don't get: Certainly Amanda Lear is one of them; I cannot get past that voice. And it seems that Martin Circus is highly regarded--and going for big bucks on eBay. I wanted to find out what all the fuss was about so I listened to the sample in the vault here and... well, let's just say I wouldn't bid too high for that record.

I'm also left cold by a lot of the early to mid-'70s Philly soul type songs ("I'll Always Love My Mama" comes to mind), but I think that's just because I wasn't really into dance music yet back then, not because there's anything wrong with it.

And I second Marky's comment: In retrospect, Lime really sounds pretty bad!


_________________


Oh Jeffy,

This is why I loves ya!!!!!!

The ABBA comment? ABBA-solutely dead on.

The Amanda Lear comment? With the exception of the Wally McDonald mix of "Follow Me", dead on.

Ditto Martin Circus.

And y'all know what I think about Lime.

Your aversion to Philly Soul bothers me however. I LOVE THAT STUFF--The Intruders included (although definitely NOT at the top of the list)

I won't add any others. To quote another artist who doesn't do it for me, I'm "Walking On Thin Ice", enough already. (Ironically, I DID like that one track).

_________________
Make My Feet Wanna Dance!

Markydefad

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: markydefad on 2002-05-09 15:18 ]</font>

[nrgbeat]

I like Lime.

Two I hate. "Is It All Over My Face" by Loose Joints (a phrase uttered many times in the Troc men's room) and "Running Away" by Roy Ayers.

Oh and "Boogie Nights" and "Groove Line" by Heatwave don't do anything for me either.

[Blaxman]

On 2002-05-09 14:58, nrgbeat wrote:
...."Running Away" by Roy Ayers.

Oh and "Boogie Nights" and "Groove Line" by Heatwave don't do anything for me either.

I agree with you. I like Roy Ayers, but "Running Away" is annoying. Heatwave is insipidous (in my opinion, of course).

Peace,

Blaxman

P.S. Sorry, I dont like Lime too.

[markydefad]

So nrgbeat, you DID go to Troc?

I thought I asked you that a while ago and you said "no"?

Keefe said he thought you were a new incarnation of "Bob" from the previous board, who cracked us up with some cryptic comments about doing something (drugs, what else?) behind the cigarette machine at Trocadero.

So, therefore, I asked that question...and, from your reply, I thought we had the wrong guy.

So now I'm guessing you are NOT Bob, but you WERE at Troc? Right? And you didn't do drugs behond the cigarette machine? But, you did see precious body fluids,... um, released (?) in the Troc restroom? Am I making any sense?

When did you go to Troc? Ever shop at Aloha? If not still in SF, where are you now?

Questions, questions, questions.

I'm preparing for my upcoming stint on "Hard Copy". Nano says I gotta find a job over there.


_________________
Make My Feet Wanna Dance!

Markydefad

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: markydefad on 2002-05-09 15:22 ]</font>

[nrgbeat]

Hi Markydefad,

No I have never been to the Troc. I do have the book Tribal Rites and am aware of the things that went on in those days.

I just threw in my bathroom comment for a chuckle.

I have only been to SF once in my life and that was in '97. Never been to LA, but hope to go there someday.

Love the music from that whole period. Disco, Hi-NRG, Sleaze and some New Wave.

[maarten]

On 2002-05-09 09:22, Jeff H wrote:
Uh-oh, here we go again with the ABBA is/isn't disco debate. My take on that is that they were a pop group, not a "disco" group, but that several of their songs were highly danceable (especially the remixes). So shut up and dance! Enjoy!

I totally agree - except that even their remixes were not disco, "Lay all your love on me" being the exception.

And it seems that Martin Circus is highly regarded--and going for big bucks on eBay. I wanted to find out what all the fuss was about so I listened to the sample in the vault here and... well, let's just say I wouldn't bid too high for that record.

Check out "Ite missa est" - if you like Kebelelektrik, I think you will like this. If you don't... hey, then you don't!

I'm also left cold by a lot of the early to mid-'70s Philly soul type songs ("I'll Always Love My Mama" comes to mind), but I think that's just because I wasn't really into dance music yet back then, not because there's anything wrong with it.

OOOOOHHHH - Philly, and "orchestral disco" (is that a new term I just invented?) in general is DELICIOUS. "Backstabbers" and "992 arguments" (with that piano!) being my favorites.

And I second Marky's comment: In retrospect, Lime really sounds pretty bad!

Funny thing. When young and a DJ, I loved "Your love" and thought everything that came afterwards was pretty poor. The only other Lime track that tickled me at the time was "You're my magician". But now, I think that actually "Unexpected lovers" is their best song. And I really didn't like this so much when it came out.

PS LOVE Heatwave. Rod Temperton was/is a master. Especially "Big Guns", "Goin' crazy" and "Groove Line".


_________________
"ON THE BEAT"

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: maarten on 2002-05-09 19:52 ]</font>

[jazz_pilgrim]

Time for my two'penny worth.

I tend to agree with DJ Phil - we ENJOYED THE MOMENT in time. Some of the Disco tunes have aged very well, and some seem very dated and trite. But the important thing is that at the time, we ENJOYED the music.

Take the swirling disco orchestra-type sound, for example. I couldn't believe it when I first heard "Cocomotion" - it was so damn SOPHISTICATED!!! Maybe some of this stuff (including "Cocomotion") has not dated so well, but when you transport yourself back to the Seventies and all those memories come back - then that's why I still love COCOMOTION to bits. (I voted in Number 2 in the Top 500 poll a few months back). That is what is important. The Disco era and the Seventies can never be recreated, but the music brings it back.

And my number one was ? ...

Roy Ayers and "Running Away"!!

At the age of 16 - going to a proper nightclub for the first time (in a hotel up the road) instead of the usual school disco (chart sounds only), the first tune I heard had this driving bass rhythm and "Do-be-do Run Run Run"! What the hell was this fantastic tune? You guessed it - Roy Ayers. Thanks, Roy, for converting me to this truly great music. I've never looked back since.

So far, I've been defending other peoples' "disappointing disco tracks".

What about tracks that disappointed me? I remember I was away in Germany for a year. Prior to my return, I read in the Soul music press about this sensational new record taking on a new musical direction. When I arrived back in England I bought it without even hearing it. And I was very disappointed - what a let down!! It was Rockers Revenge - Walking On Sunshine.

Generally, I like the Soul, Funk and Jazz disco stuff, and dislike Eurodisco / Hi NRG stuff. But there are always exceptions.

And I always respect everybody else's taste and am willing to learn. Hell, I even spent a night with my nephew as he tried to explain this modern Techno stuff to me!!!

[jazz_pilgrim]

Oh yes, and as for Abba ...

I would never consider them disco/funk dance music. I am a bit of a BLACK music purist - in terms of dance music.

But, that said, I can appreciate what a good band they were - they were VERY CLEVER. There was a great 3 part documentary on BBC radio a few months back, and it really opened my eyes to Abba's music, you know, the songwriting, the arrangements, the meaning of the songs etc. And I think, now, I have begun to appreciate them a little bit.
They were good, you know .....

[Funky Dude]

ABBA fever, got to ABBA down, ABBA fever, I think it's going around (parody of Sylver's "Boogie Fever").

From what I was told it was ABBA fever in Australia during the mid/late 70's and I guess you all know because I said it 100 times, Aussie radio stations belt the living **** out of ABBA because the teenyboppers constantly requested ABBA songs. And even today on the local radio station 96.5 Wave FM belts ABBA on the 70's retro program. Their music ranges from alright to good, but because I heard ABBA's music so many times I couldn't be bothered wanting to listen to them again just like "YMCA", "Stayin' Alive" and "That's The Way I Like It".

Commenting on Roberta Kelly, I really dig "Trouble Maker" and "Zodiac" becuase they are great songs especially "Trouble Maker".

[sirius]

Thank God(it´s Friday???)
I thought no-one´s into Roberta Kelly here
on this page!
Cosmic Love & Kisses From SIRIUS & DARKTUNES

[markydefad]

Hey Sirius,

I defended Roberta Kelly from the get-go.

Then, I opened my big mouth and dissed the Disco Trinity : Alec & Boris & Rinder/Lewis.

Talk about causing a Coco-Commotion!!!

I'm feeling shunned. I may have to go to a monastery.

[BrunoRepublic]

I'm feeling shunned. I may have to go to a monastery.

*** Graham smacks Marky upside with a CD of "Lime's Greatest Hits" ***

Now cut that out! We don't need anymore of this talk of shunning and what not. It's "Sun... sun... sun...", not "Shun... shun... shun...". You stated your opinion, and others disagreed. I even pointed to specific examples for you to comment on. Besides, think back to the scolding I got for not understanding the enduring popularity of Evelyn "Champagne" King's "Shame".

And besides... wouldn't the holy trinity of disco be more like Giorgio/Alec R/Gregg Diamond?