what was the average disco 12" budget?

[Spellbound]

i will try to make this short

what was the average disco 12" budget?

musicians
artists
producers
instruments
studio time
mastering
test press
pressing
vinyl
colored vinyl
labels
picture covers
stickers
jackets
sleeves
etc...

i am only mentioning what is in my mind right now as i am typing this. i am sure i am leaving out several other costs.

i could easily go on typing forever about this topic.

obviously the average disco 12" budget from the 1970's would be higher compared to the (electronic) 1980's...

smaller label budgets...

larger label budgets (non major)...

major label budgets...

i apologize if this is too broad of a topic

[Spellbound]

maybe i should give an example for the sake of this discussion

here is a record i am sure everybody in here is familiar with...



i have my own educated guess based on todays 12" costs

the only problem is i was not alive back then so i do not have a precise understanding of the actual costs from that time period

i remember having a conversation with a local house producer a few months ago...

when i mentioned to him that he should "take it back to the old school" he started laughing...

he responded "are you kidding?
not even the majors would be willing to do that right now"

[Spellbound]

one last question/questions...

what was the average run of a disco 12" back then?

was there a flat rate after let's say 1,000 copies pressed?

since everybody was pressing vinyl back then would the initial pressing cost be higher or lower than today due to the demand of that time period?

[BrunoRepublic]

It's hard to come up with a definite figure, as the costs of many things have changed relative to today.

Many disco productions had enormous budgets, like most Casablanca releases. Then and now, I think studio time and musicians would be the most expensive part. Orchestras are usually all unionized and do not come cheap. But there were certain producers who could get a surprising amount done with very limited means, such as Patrick Adams (the "Keep On Jumpin'" LP was supposedly done on a budget of only $16,000) or Barry White, who got a huge sound with limited means by recording as much as possible simultaneously on two tracks.

Certain things can be done much cheaper today then back then. Half-decent outboard gear (reverbs, delays, compressors, etc) can be had for a fraction of what they cost back then. Hugely expensive and high-maintenance multitrack tape decks can be replaced by a home computer with a decent sound card and the appropriate software. Good microphones and EQ are still very expensive though.

Anyway, the cost of pressing the actual vinyl would be trivial compared to the cost of the production. I would imagine that on a per unit cost, vinyl is much more expensive now as it's very much a niche market and simply not pumped out in the mass quantities that it once was.

[QUINNY]

$16,000 dollars would equate to having to sell about 25,000 albums to re-coup that cost alone, so I reckon even that paltry sum wasn't lavished on most disco productions.

Looking at things logically and guestimating, maybe these were the costs:

Recording - $16,000
Mastering - $1,000
Test Press - $ 500
Design/Art - $2,500
Promotion - $10,000 - $15,000
Distribution - $2,500
Pressing - $25,000

Grand Total - $57,500

Full Retail price was $6.99? I'm guessing
Price to shops would be retail less 33% = $4.68
$4.68 X 25,000 = $117,082 before any incentives given (maybe included in promotion budget)

i.e. Record company makes 100% gross profit before paying all of its fixed asset costs, staff costs, rent, taxes, royalties etc etc.

To have thought about pressing 25,000 copies the record company would have sniffed a reasonably sized hit.

If it went on to sell 100,000 then good profits would be predicted.
If it went on to sell 1,000,000 everybody would be living the high life, until the follow up flopped. :lol:

Don't know about present day vinyl costs, but here in the UK the cost of pressing a record remained stationary for many, many years, so in real terms, the cost went down quite dramatically.
CDs in mid sized quantity ( including booklets and jewel cases) can be pressed for as little as 0.73c or even less and have gone down in price, year on year, since 1984, so that's why I'm quitting the CD/recording biz pretty soon.

[buckaroo]

I once heard a UK artist called Junior being interviewed on the radio. He had a hit record in the US and Europe during 1982 called "Mama Used To Say", and mentioned that back then he was really under pressure to sell albums, because the average cost of producing one was something like £400, 000. :o

[Jimmy-Michaels]

A sure waste of a 12'' press i'll say was quite a few of Casablanca's poor excuses for 12'' mixes..a few examples which ive talked about in the past in other threads before:

Alec R Costandinos - Romeo & Juliet (worst edit job in history)

Giorgio Moroder - Chase (another horrable edit/loop to attempt an "extended" version)

Sumeria (aka Costandinos) - Golden Tears Medley (a simple slam in live mix..totaly sucks)

..however of the Sumeria 12 there is one good one out there thats very hard to find that is an actual extended remix of "Why Must There Be An End/Golden Tears" with a nice long electro drum break and good bass boost on the actual tracks.

[originalbigm]

It's all a crapshoot the only thing you can verify is it was more expensive in the days of using actual studio musicians and orchestras and having to press vinyl.But to come up with real costs is next to impossible as the record companies were tight lipped with divulging this information.They didn't want anyone knowing their real bottom line lest they had to start shelling out more to the artists.And the same applies today.
I recall reading somewhere that at the time Thriller was released Michael Jackson,commanding top dollar as an artist, was getting around $1.25 US per album sold.

[Giovanni]

Casablanca's poor excuses for 12'' mixes...

By the way,

anyone knowing who mixed the Casablanca 12s? They never (but a couple of exceptions)credit mixer or remixers on the label.