Who Mixed First?

[QUINNY]

WARNING: This may be a contentious subject and controversial.

I've been edged into this topic by a remark on the infamous 'DJ Discotizer' thread. BTW: I take back all I said about the Michele record. That really was way ahead of its time.

O2tranzam wrote "you know mixing was invented in Brooklyn?"

I'm not so sure it was. I would lay bets that it was actually invented in South America by DJs playing Sambas and other latin music. I'll tell you why.

In 1974 I went to work in Marbella, Spain. I was a fresh faced 22 year old who'd been DJing for about 5 years by then and thought I knew all there was to know. The sort of arrogance that youth and ignorance breeds.

The first big shock was that DJs in Spain didn't talk. They just played records.
The second big shock was that certain well known, incredibly expensive clubs had DJs playing records that were hotter than hot.
The third big shock was that these guys were mixing these records in what seemed like a totally seemless fashion. I had a chance to listen to a recording of one of them at what was, at the time, the most famous club in Spain 'Pepe Moreno'. He was performing chop mixes and blends as if he'd been doing it all his life, in 1974! this guy was South American.

At a later juncture, an Argentinian DJ who was in town looking for work, befriended me and I got to talk to him an awful lot about records and DJing. He informed me that what I had thought was revolutionary (i.e. mixing) had been the norm in Brazil and Argentina for many, many years and the reason he'd left was that he liked black music and he never got a chance to play much of it back home.

So, another piece of Disco/dance history that's wrong, or doesn't Spain or Latin America count?

[K-Bee]

Interesting take on something we all tend to take for granted i guess.

Wouldn't surprise me at all if people in South America invented the art of mixing as opposed to the americans. It's all about promotion and connections when it comes down to it - something that may have been hard to cope with in South America in the early 70s (i'm guessing here), therefore making it easier for americans really perfecting the style and making it available to the audience through clubs and parties.

[QUINNY]

Don't forget though KBee, that there were thousands of discos in Spain, Italy and suchlike by 1974. In all of these, the DJs would have been playing records and talking very little, if at all. I don't suppose they all had DJs who were mixing, but I'd guess a fair few did! So, the idea of having records programmed because of similarity to or similar tempo to another would have been fairly widespread and millions of holiday makers would have experienced it, especially Brits ( "so why didn't we take to mixing earlier?" I hear you say......I really don't know) and other Europeans.

It's a difficult circle to square.

[originalbigm]

This is also one of those simply impossible questions to answer or verify IMO.I was mixing Part 1 and Part 2 of 45's back in 1972 but I wouldn't claim I was the one who invented mixing or the first to do it.DJ's in North America were also programming music by style and tempo in the early 70's without chit chat.So to say who invented or created the art of mixing is suspect to say the least.The first real commercial mix of a record that I recall was Tom Moulton's mix of Never Can Say Goodbye by Gloria Gaynor but I'm sure that someone somewhere in the underground clubs of the day had done it already.I certainly believe that mixing really came into it's own artform with the advent of the 12" single where the inclusion of long percussion breaks in the record provided fertile ground for the beat mixers and their imaginations.Who or where is possibly the million dollar unanswered question.Possibly 02 Tranzam can expound on his contention as to where or who in brooklyn invented mixing :-? An interesting thread no doubt!

[born2disco]

According to the book 'Last Night a DJ Saved My Life - The History of the Disc Jockey', the first DJ to beat mix records was Francis Grasso in 1969.... of course, history can't be taken as gospel, and no doubt some would refute this claim...

[QUINNY]

I got a feeling that South American DJs were beat mixing before that! Can't prove it though.

[kaliffen]

Memory can be a tricky thing. what you might remember today as beatmix back in 74.... could simply just turn out to be songs blending between two tracks.

Mix standards improved drastically up to the birth of housemusic - then everything went stricly bom bom bom and has been there ever since thx to the introduction of sequencers and drum machines.

Just think of the mixstandard of the discotizer tape. Nothing exciting by todays stardards but probably the bomb back then.

[QUINNY]

Just think of the mixstandard of the discotizer tape. Nothing exciting by todays stardards but probably the bomb back then.

No. That is poor mixing by any standards!

[Jimmy-Michaels]

LOL LOL Poor mixing aint the word...try worse than amature..an amature coulda done better :lol:

[02tranzam]

this reminds me of that commercial where the guy spills his drink and trys to wipe it off with a rag and then starts scratching and the caption reads something to the effect of 1979 the birth of scratching. real funny stuff.
as for who invented mixing, i just trough it out there because quinny said something about being bad even for new york. dont worry quinny your still tops in my book .
its just that when i was growing up here in brooklyn there was at least 5 djs on my block alone. comparing who had better equipment or who had the most records. measured of course by the milk crate. some early djs that i can remember were dj j immy cruz, aldo marin and the latin rascals, that were really good mixers/editers of disco music.
i think the art of mixing 2 records came about instantaneously. as for who had the best djs theres no doubt in my mind where they come from :lol:
carmine

[Nano]

It's funny you mention this, Q, coz a couple of years back I read a story about a DJ from Argentina who went to live to Ibiza in the 70s. The local paper stated -somewhat seriously- that this guy had started what we came to know as the "marcha" (Spanish word) or rave music style. I wonder if that was your friend.
Basically, the guy had this style of mixing and making the most of the middle percussion breaks on most disco records. Then, some British guys dug the style and took it with them to the islands, where it started to sound in dance clubs like the infamous Manchester's Hacienda (probably French DJ-producer Laurent Garnier had something to do with this, because I think he did some nights at the Hacienda at the time). Then the house boom began, and soon Manchester was flooded with rock-dance bands like Happy Mondays and The Stone Roses.
Maybe it wasn't like this, I'm just putting this from memory. Tried to find the article on the web but couldn't. Will look for it again later if you're interested.

[kaliffen]

That will be Alfredo youre looking for, however your story is not quite true to the stroy of what really happened back then in the 80s but try and google

Ibiza + Oakenfold + baleric + Amnesia + summer of love + acid + rave +

Add Alfredo,Pipi or Caesar for that latin flavour.

The history has been widely covered by many online magazines.

[bigpoppa206]

I can assure you that the art of non-stop beat mixing through seguing and slip-cuing really did begin in New York City in late 1968/69 and that it was Francis Grasso who invented it. Before Francis, no DJ tried to maintain or reflect energy between the DJ and the dancefloor. The now time honored tradition of "taking them on a trip" was only part of Francis' legacy. The aforementioned "Last Night a DJ Saved My Life" and the book "Love Saves the Day: A History of American Dance Music Culture, 1970-1979" are excellent sources of history about the DJ and give quite a bit of information about Francis' history. Peace!

[born2disco]

I can assure you that the art of non-stop beat mixing through seguing and slip-cuing really did begin in New York City in late 1968/69 and that it was Francis Grasso who invented it. Before Francis, no DJ tried to maintain or reflect energy between the DJ and the dancefloor. The now time honored tradition of "taking them on a trip" was only part of Francis' legacy. The aforementioned "Last Night a DJ Saved My Life" and the book "Love Saves the Day: A History of American Dance Music Culture, 1970-1979" are excellent sources of history about the DJ and give quite a bit of information about Francis' history. Peace!

Just coz the history books say so, don't make it so! ;)

[Giovanni]

As a matte of fact, mixing was already estabilished by '69. Everybody was mixing records in radios and live shows (when the band was having a break).

Beat mixing is another story... I think that Francis Grasso is being credited as the first because all of those who wrote about dj history used as their source the Albert Golman's book "Disco". This book was released in '79 and goes back about ten years to capture the beginning of the movement, when The Sanctuary was probably the most extravagant thing to happen in the NY night scene. Maybe many others Francis existed and we don't know or just can't remember.

Djing at the end of the 60s was not considered a serious job amd even many of the djs did it just to get some money to survive and find a different job. With the turn of the 70s many understood the big business around the role of the dj and several of them began djing professionally.

Being italian, I can assure you that in the early 70s we had here a lot of pure discos, and a lot clubs alternating live bands and djs. The same is true for every mediterranean country (Spain, France, Greece), where tourist gathered, particularly in summertime.
On summertime many UK and northern europe jocks came down to Spain and Greece for seasonal contracts, while in Italy and France local djs were holding the wheels.
All of these djs were playing import records from the US and almost nobody was talking over the music: being the lyrics in a foreign language, nobody cared about these.... everyone was concentrate on beat mixing. The less you talked the more you were considered a disco dj. Not talking at all was the top disco djing style, because people listened to the music and to the dj ability to blend records.

Ibiza became the temple of discos and many spanish and italian djs developed mixing techniques that usually are credited to historical NY jocks like Walter Gibbons..... almost every serious disco dj here in the early 70s had 2 copies of every record, was phasing records, beat mixing by blend or chop, adding percussions from other records, and so on.

When the first US djs became touring Europe (David Roriguez in 76 played the Pierro's in Mykonos, and later Tom Savarese in 78 played La Pineta in Milano Marittima and other italian clubs) left a sense of delusion in the local djs that technically were absolutely superior by far.

I believe that beat mixing happened more or less at the same time everywhere, but it's not possible to say who was first

[Fiorenzo]

As a matte of fact, mixing was already estabilished by '69. Everybody was mixing records in radios and live shows (when the band was having a break).

Beat mixing is another story... I think that Francis Grasso is being credited as the first because all of those who wrote about dj history used as their source the Albert Golman's book "Disco". This book was released in '79 and goes back about ten years to capture the beginning of the movement, when The Sanctuary was probably the most extravagant thing to happen in the NY night scene. Maybe many others Francis existed and we don't know or just can't remember.

Djing at the end of the 60s was not considered a serious job amd even many of the djs did it just to get some money to survive and find a different job. With the turn of the 70s many understood the big business around the role of the dj and several of them began djing professionally.

Being italian, I can assure you that in the early 70s we had here a lot of pure discos, and a lot clubs alternating live bands and djs. The same is true for every mediterranean country (Spain, France, Greece), where tourist gathered, particularly in summertime.
On summertime many UK and northern europe jocks came down to Spain and Greece for seasonal contracts, while in Italy and France local djs were holding the wheels.
All of these djs were playing import records from the US and almost nobody was talking over the music: being the lyrics in a foreign language, nobody cared about these.... everyone was concentrate on beat mixing. The less you talked the more you were considered a disco dj. Not talking at all was the top disco djing style, because people listened to the music and to the dj ability to blend records.

Ibiza became the temple of discos and many spanish and italian djs developed mixing techniques that usually are credited to historical NY jocks like Walter Gibbons..... almost every serious disco dj here in the early 70s had 2 copies of every record, was phasing records, beat mixing by blend or chop, adding percussions from other records, and so on.

When the first US djs became touring Europe (David Roriguez in 76 played the Pierro's in Mykonos, and later Tom Savarese in 78 played La Pineta in Milano Marittima and other italian clubs) left a sense of delusion in the local djs that technically were absolutely superior by far.

I believe that beat mixing happened more or less at the same time everywhere, but it's not possible to say who was first

Giovanni's post couldn't be more precise and I completely agree with it. In 1968/1969 Francis Grasso was probably the first mixing DJ and other guys like Michael Capello, Steve D'Acquisto, Nicky Siano followed suit. Since all these guys hailed from Brooklyn, we can actually say that in a way beat mixing hails from Brooklyn, too.

I'm also Italian and a dj as well. I started in the late 70's but I know some people who were already spinning in 1970/1971. Local dj's were very good at beat mixing. Also, around 1976/1977 you would hear lots of mix shows on Italian private radio stations. Guys like Micky from Ciak, Jonathan Jan, Claudio Cecchetto were excellent mixers and, when Savarese came to Italy, his mixing skills disappointed quite a few local dj's.

this reminds me of that commercial where the guy spills his drink and trys to wipe it off with a rag and then starts scratching and the caption reads something to the effect of 1979 the birth of scratching. real funny stuff.

Grand Wizard Theodore is recognized as being the first scratcher. He took Grandmaster Flash's ideas and techniques and brought them to a different level. And that occured sometime during the second half of the seventies.

[ladyboygrimsby]

As a matte of fact, mixing was already estabilished by '69. Everybody was mixing records in radios and live shows (when the band was having a break).

Beat mixing is another story... I think that Francis Grasso is being credited as the first because all of those who wrote about dj history used as their source the Albert Golman's book "Disco". This book was released in '79 and goes back about ten years to capture the beginning of the movement, when The Sanctuary was probably the most extravagant thing to happen in the NY night scene. Maybe many others Francis existed and we don't know or just can't remember.

Djing at the end of the 60s was not considered a serious job amd even many of the djs did it just to get some money to survive and find a different job. With the turn of the 70s many understood the big business around the role of the dj and several of them began djing professionally.

Being italian, I can assure you that in the early 70s we had here a lot of pure discos, and a lot clubs alternating live bands and djs. The same is true for every mediterranean country (Spain, France, Greece), where tourist gathered, particularly in summertime.
On summertime many UK and northern europe jocks came down to Spain and Greece for seasonal contracts, while in Italy and France local djs were holding the wheels.
All of these djs were playing import records from the US and almost nobody was talking over the music: being the lyrics in a foreign language, nobody cared about these.... everyone was concentrate on beat mixing. The less you talked the more you were considered a disco dj. Not talking at all was the top disco djing style, because people listened to the music and to the dj ability to blend records.

Ibiza became the temple of discos and many spanish and italian djs developed mixing techniques that usually are credited to historical NY jocks like Walter Gibbons..... almost every serious disco dj here in the early 70s had 2 copies of every record, was phasing records, beat mixing by blend or chop, adding percussions from other records, and so on.

When the first US djs became touring Europe (David Roriguez in 76 played the Pierro's in Mykonos, and later Tom Savarese in 78 played La Pineta in Milano Marittima and other italian clubs) left a sense of delusion in the local djs that technically were absolutely superior by far.

I believe that beat mixing happened more or less at the same time everywhere, but it's not possible to say who was first

Giovanni's post couldn't be more precise and I completely agree with it. In 1968/1969 Francis Grasso was probably the first mixing DJ and other guys like Michael Capello, Steve D'Acquisto, Nicky Siano followed suit. Since all these guys hailed from Brooklyn, we can actually say that in a way beat mixing hails from Brooklyn, too.

I'm also Italian and a dj as well. I started in the late 70's but I know some people who were already spinning in 1970/1971. Local dj's were very good at beat mixing. Also, around 1976/1977 you would hear lots of mix shows on Italian private radio stations. Guys like Micky from Ciak, Jonathan Jan, Claudio Cecchetto were excellent mixers and, when Savarese came to Italy, his mixing skills disappointed quite a few local dj's.

this reminds me of that commercial where the guy spills his drink and trys to wipe it off with a rag and then starts scratching and the caption reads something to the effect of 1979 the birth of scratching. real funny stuff.

Grand Wizard Theodore is recognized as being the first scratcher. He took Grandmaster Flash's ideas and techniques and brought them to a different level. And that occured sometime during the second half of the seventies.

Fiorenzo, what about Bob Day and Tom Sison? They were in Italy in the early 1070s, well before Savarese arrived there. When I interviewed Baldelli last year, he said that he had never seen mixing before Bob & Tom came to Baia as residents. He says they just segued records together before that. From what he told me, and also Mozart and Flavio Vecchi and others, they all learned from Bob & Tom.

[Giovanni]

Bob & Tom were residents at Baia from 74 to 77 playing classic Philly and disco. They created the myth of the Baia in Italy. Their style was simple but they were playing such a beautiful music!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have some old tapes of Bob & Tom from 1976 and their mixing technique is already well estabilished, but I also have tapes of Miki recorded in 76 at the Ciak and the style is the same.
They were using a lot of chop mixes but also blending on time over a drum break.

[QUINNY]

All rather academic. As I already stated, that those South American guys were mixing (i.e. blending and to some extent beat mixing) in '74 and by all accounts had been doing so for quite some time.
Personally I can't believe that Francisd Grasso was beat mixing in the late '60s/early '70s. Surely others would have tried to emulate him, so why not scores of others that could beat mix by the time Disco really arrived? No, the early 'mix' records and tapes were segues only.

[Fiorenzo]

All rather academic. As I already stated, that those South American guys were mixing (i.e. blending and to some extent beat mixing) in '74 and by all accounts had been doing so for quite some time.
Personally I can't believe that Francisd Grasso was beat mixing in the late '60s/early '70s. Surely others would have tried to emulate him, so why not scores of others that could beat mix by the time Disco really arrived? No, the early 'mix' records and tapes were segues only.

I was too young to go clubs in the 60's and early 70's. Anyway, I was told by people like Nicky Siano that Francis was the first to beat mix in New York. I don't know how good or how bad he was. At Salvation II and eventually at the Sanctuary he was already mixing / blending records in 1968/69. Anyway, it's a matter of fact that Francis introduced a new mood for the music and that he is usually recognized as the godfather of modern deejaying. Francis also taught his skills to people like Michael Capello and Steve D'Acquisto.

If somebody has a different version or legend, I'm interested in reading it. I won't argue that some guys in Latin America were already mixing sometime during the same period. I'd be interested in having more information about it.

[Fiorenzo]

Fiorenzo, what about Bob Day and Tom Sison? They were in Italy in the early 1070s, well before Savarese arrived there. When I interviewed Baldelli last year, he said that he had never seen mixing before Bob & Tom came to Baia as residents. He says they just segued records together before that. From what he told me, and also Mozart and Flavio Vecchi and others, they all learned from Bob & Tom.

I think that Giovanni has already given you a good answer about Bobby & Tom. Daniele Baldelli was an excellent dj and still is. Check out his Disco Cross compilations.

[Mixmachine]

Anyone has any detail info (TT model and mixer) that this early Djs (especially late 60's) were using? As far as I know belt driven without pitch control TT were the only thing available until the early 70's, and Pro mixers with cuing ability had to be special ordered or rigged/modified, therefore 'Beatmixing' back then would be an incredible accomplishment, blending, choping, seguing is more likely as even 'slip-cuing' was extremely difficult before direct drive TTs were readely available and/or affordable.

[passaro]

francis grasso

[Fiorenzo]

Anyone has any detail info (TT model and mixer) that this early Djs (especially late 60's) were using? As far as I know belt driven without pitch control TT were the only thing available until the early 70's, and Pro mixers with cuing ability had to be special ordered or rigged/modified, therefore 'Beatmixing' back then would be an incredible accomplishment, blending, choping, seguing is more likely as even 'slip-cuing' was extremely difficult before direct drive TTs were readely available and/or affordable.

The first DJ's would probably use varispeed Thorens TD125 (if I remember the right model, correct me if I'm wrong) and a Rosner mixer (Please find a picture here:http://www.paolopasquali.it/mancuso.htm)

[QUINNY]

There were varispeed record decks (like the Garrard 301/401?) back then with enough torque, but they were few and far between. The 401 was a broadcast turntable, built like a tank and good fun to use. They had an infinitely variable speed, so even a little nudge could mean a huge speed variation.

The first varispeed decks I came across were in Spain, in 1974. The standard of decks, mixers, amplification, lighting etc was light years ahead of anything I'd known about in the UK, but tended to be dominated by one or two companies.