Toulouse vs. Saint Tropez - who copied who?

[darrens]

Hi,

I've recently acquired a MP3 copy of the Toulouse LP from 1977 out of Canada.

The first track on the LP is "If you ever need someone", and on listening to it immediately noticed that the backing on the track is absolutely identical to "On a rien a perdre" by Saint Tropez! :o

My question is, which came first? I'm assuming that the instrumentation is a direct copy rather than a sample, but supposing that the author got writing credits on both?

[Marcio**]

How interesting, Darrens.
Both are from 1977.
Probably "On A Rien À Perdre" by Saint Tropez is a French version of "If You Ever Need Someone" by Toulouse.
But the authors aren't not the same.
"If You Ever Need Someone" by Toulouse was written by Peter Alves, Barry Beckett and George Jackson.
"On A Rien À Perdre" by Saint Tropez was written by Peter Alves, Barry Beckett and George Thurston.

The bridge between Toulouse and Saint Tropez was the Saint Tropez producer W. Michael Lewis because W. Michael Lewis was responsible for the Toulouse & Saint Tropez' string & horn arrangements. On Toulouse's back cover: "String & Horn Arrangements: Mike Lewis". So, I think Mike Lewis is W. Michael Lewis. Sometimes disco is a
risky business :D .

[BrunoRepublic]

But the authors aren't not the same.
"If You Ever Need Someone" by Toulouse was written by Peter Alves, Barry Beckett and George Jackson.
"On A Rien À Perdre" by Saint Tropez was written by Peter Alves, Barry Beckett and George Thurston.

The difference is probably due to the different lyrics/lyricist... either that or it was a typo.

[BrunoRepublic]

So, I think Mike Lewis is W. Michael Lewis.

He is. He had to add the "W" in the USA as there was already another Mike Lewis in the music business. I suspect that since the Toulouse LP wasn't released in the USA (at least, I don't think it was), the name thing didn't matter and he could use his normal unembellished name.

[Paulo]

Darrens,

Is the backing track the same?
Or you mean it is the same arrangement?

[dj phillip esparza]

It wouldn't be the first time Laurin & Michael copied someone else.He admits that a lot of artist sampled each other then.Remember Le Spank,well that was a Barry White track originally

[Com King]

It's ecstasy ..." has inspired "Le Spank" but I don't think it has really been"sampled" by Rinder & Lewis.

The strings of "Make it last forever" sounds a lot like those of "It's ecstasy ..." too.

[dj phillip esparza]

I was being kind.Laurins admits to rerecording the music and adding their own lyrics.Remember they were only known as El Coco and used fake names in the credits.They were trying disco out and didn't want a direct link if it wasn't successful.

[darrens]

Darrens,

Is the backing track the same?
Or you mean it is the same arrangement?

Probably the same arrangement, although they are so similar they could be the same backing track. I didn't think sampling had been invented in 1977!

Darren

[BrunoRepublic]

Probably the same arrangement, although they are so similar they could be the same backing track. I didn't think sampling had been invented in 1977!

It's probably the same backing track. Rinder & Lewis did this later with the "Cheetah" album, made from recycled backing tracks from previous productions. Can you say "contractual obligation"?

Sampling did not exist until the Fairlight, which came out in 1979. It cost tens of thousands of dollars, and could only sample a few seconds in 8-bit audio (i.e. telephone quality). Good quality sampling did not come along until the mid-80s, and even then, one was limited to a few seconds. Loooooonnng samples like the ones that are common now did not come along until the early 90s. Nowadays, an average PC running Gigasampler or the Kontakt/Halion plug-ins is infinitely more powerful than the samplers of the 80s.

A few years ago, I spent $3,000 Cnd on a sampler which was considered a bargain at the time. It's since been rendered obsolete in every way by software that costs 1/10th of that.