Reply With QuoteI agree, they were all pretty pants at mixing back then, but no-one cared or knew any different.
Chart Hit [Level 6]
i noticed that the dj's back in the 70's did a lot of screw ups in there mixing. For instance, Larry Levan had many unsmooth transitions between his songs (even though he is amazing!!!). I noticed it in a live set from him in 1985 and that cd from paradise garage. If you watch SNF the dj in the discotech does a terrible transition between the songs. I have a live set from Disco Fever back in '81 and the transition between the songs is terrible. Many early disconet records contain dj sets. Many transitions between songs on some records are pretty bad.
Underground Hit [Level 5]
I agree, they were all pretty pants at mixing back then, but no-one cared or knew any different.
Leather is the way forward!
No Longer Charting
I think it has a lot to do with tempii that used to change (sometimes drastically), edits that weren't totally accurate or taken from parts of the track wjere the tempo had changed, delays that weren't matched to tempo (so that you had repeats of phrases completely out of time), etc as much as anything else.
To say no-one knew better and that we didn't care is not absolutely true. The truth is, that beat mixing records from the era, without any electronic aids, was bloody difficult and sometimes impossible, especially if you were having to make up the rules as you went along. Everything was relatively new territory.
Underground Hit [Level 5]
I think most DJ's (at least all the ones I heard) just used to chop between tracks. This was normally preferable to some messy attemp to "mix". Also, what is the point of pitching a record up to say +4 just to mix it with another record for 8 bars. Cutting/chopping can sound more dynamic and powerful than a half arsed mix.
The only UK DJ I remember mixing in the early 80's was Froggy. Sometimes I felt he selected records that were mixable in order to do his thing. Some records were fairly level tempo wise and did allow long running mixes.
When I say no-one cared, there weren't other wanna be DJ's in the audience expecting mixing - punters generally weren't aware or bothered by mixing. Most still aren't now, but they are more clued up about it than they were then.
Leather is the way forward!
Chart Hit [Level 6]
Mixing was a developed skill that required one to be able to program his music beginning at a mid tempo and increasing to a high tempo by carefully selecting the appropriate BPM to the existing song playing without having to pitch up or down to drastically to achieve a smooth transition.Some songs simply did not have appropriate breaks to mix to and then one would have to drop mix rather than beat mix.
I agree with Quinny that the early days were very difficult indeed but the good DJ's were the ones that could pulloff smooth mixes consistently.There were also nights that even the best of us just couldn't get our heads into it.The crowds that were into dancing were the most critical as drastic tempo changes or poor transition to the next song would kill the mood. I'm sure that the club deejays on this board would agree that it was a diificult job to be consistent and required real commitment and concentration to pull off a relatively faultless evening of mixes.It wasn't that easy as we also didn't want to be predictable in our song and mix selection as it in time would become ho hum.
In addition we were constantly being fed dozens of new releases on a weekly basis that we had to introduce to the crowd along with our regular format and this in itself required stategizing as to when and where we could get this new number transitioning into the mix acceptably.You had to maintain a balance between the existing and new stuff.
How many of you remember that awful feeling when you played a new song that absolutelty died with the crowd and you lost the floor.Horrible :x
Double Platinum Record [Level 9]
Maybe that's how it was where you lived, not so over here when I was working in New York. The crowds were tough. They hung out... a lot. They expected mixing and somewhere in that night (and during most of it) you better prove you could do more than chop records together.Originally Written by Leatherman
Sure, we weren't computers and we fucked up. But managers and the crowds expected those **** ups to be occasional, not regular. Mixing was work but it was FUN work. And when the wanna be dj's did start showing up you had better prove you could do it better than they.
I got my gigs by proving I could mix the songs as good or better than the guy who was already there. Plain and simple. I kept those gigs by continually trying to keep it fresh. Spending a fortune on new music even though I'd just left the record pool. Listening to new music constantly so I knew how it sounded, till I knew how it felt and hopefully how it would work when I introduced it to the dancefloor. And yes, taking songs +4/-4 out-of-pitch and having the crowds appreciate the fact that you were working to make it work. These were knowledgable people, many of them commenting on what you were doing as you were doing it and getting off on it. "Cutting and chopping" constantly would be sure to get you one thing --- FIRED!
Underground Hit [Level 5]
I don't think mixing was as important in the UK at that time. I don't remember hearing anyone doing it (appart from Froggy, Alan Coutard and some other early DMC guys). Around the electro era of Shannon/Hashim etc and steady tempos it started to become a little more common to hear, but still many top DJ's over here couldn't really mix until he late 80's.
However, what I will say about most of the UK guys is that as a whole they were musicaly very upfront over here. IMO more so than most of the US cats, from what I've seen of the charts from that era. There was a far bigger turnover of tracks, obscure oldies being played, stuff like Jap Fusion taking off etc. I'm not saying it was all brilliant but when i see the charts from the Loft, Garage etc it mostly seems to be major label stuff with the odd exception (Woman, Soul Makossa, Funkmasters)
Leather is the way forward!
No Longer Charting
Leatherman: Just so you don't tar all British DJs with the same brush.
Personally I was segueing (chop mixing) from '74 through to about '78, when I made my first attempts at mixing. Even back in my early days as a DJ ('68 - '74) I was known as a 'tight' DJ by my fellow jocks. For me, presentation was very, very important and people have to realise that the only DJs anyone could aspire to in the early days were radio DJs. I always admired 'Emperor Rosko' due to his record selection (a lot more soul and R'n'B than most) and his incredibly slick US style. I tried not to ape him, but develope my own style, which for a long, long time, was fairly unique wherever I worked.
By 1980 I was mixing full time, but, as I was in the UK I still had to talk over records too, something I continued to do until my retirement in '87. I agree thgat mixing was largely a late 1980's thing in the UK. I can give a very good example. In 1980 I opened a Disco/bar in the West End of London. I had to interview other jocks to take on the other DJ post that was available and as part of the interview I put down about 15 records (from 100 BPM to 132 BPM) on some paper and asked the DJs to put a set together from these records. Not one of them put together a set that made any sense in mixing terms. Not one DJ recognised that 3 of the records were almost identical in tempo and feel and would make for a great sequence with a fantastic groove. Even in London, only a small percentage of the DJs that responded said they could mix.
Had I had my own way, yes, I think I would have prefrred to mix a little more and talk a little less, but both the punters and the managers weren't too keen on DJs that would merely mix records. I'm not so sure I would wanted to have gone 'all the way' into mixing, as in my own mind I think I would have found it too boring and too mentally draining at the same time. Personally, I could never quite square the circle when it came to mixing what was a good mix and catering for the needs of the punters to hear what they wanted to hear. I guess I never had the arrogance to have the take it or leave it attitude that most successful mixing DJs appear to have had. Yep, you read it right, I had insecurities about my ability. A fatal flaw that kept me in the backwaters of Djing pond of Disco.
Chart Hit [Level 6]
In Italy beat mixing was the rule since the second half of the 70s, when the Lenco turntables with pitch adjuster became available. When the 1200s arrived you HAD to beat mix. About that time high, mid and bass level controls began to appear on the mixers, so that you can perfectly adjust the level (i.e. mixing from a 12 to a LP) with the use of the gain knobs.
Djs here always concentrated on beat mixing and musical pairing also because the lyrics were of no interest to a not english speaking crowd.
Overlapping or chop mixes were on a musical basis only. All the djs here were competing on two level... 1) technical skills, i.e. beat mixing 2) musical choice, i.e. rare and exclusive releases.
I have many old tapes (by miself and other italian djs), from the late 70s and early 80s wher you can ear perfect beat mixings (made only with EAR & PITCH)
Up to the mid 70s many club dj had a radio heritage and still used to speak over the music and sometimes announcing the records. By the end of the 70s all the club-only djs specialized in beat mixing in order to show their technical superiority vs the radio djs. If you spoke while mixing, you couldn't mix!
The djs then had to raise up a vibe by the music only, no percussions, no saxes, no vocalists, no sexy dancers in the club! And beat mixing was yor card.
No Longer Charting
Ahh Giovanni, that became my own Holy Grail and sometimes I succeeded quite well in doing the two simultaneously. For a while, that's what might have made me slicker than the next guy over here.
By 1987 a new breed of DJ had emerged in my part of the world. They were younger, slicker and hungry for my (and other older DJs) work. My own 'reign' had come to a close.
Double Platinum Record [Level 9]
Sounds like those DJs 'reigned' on your parade, eh Quinny?
...ya gotta beat the street......
Gold Record [Level 7]
This is true, I never used any DiscoNets meddleys/mixes myself (many re-mixes were very good) , for me, good ones were hard to find, but for some reason some people though they were great! so, who knows?.....
From what I’ve read here, the “disco” experience for you guys in the UK was very different from the US; By 1980 ‘Beat Mixing’ was a full-fledged and well established art form, as far back as ’74 local Deejays were beat mixing in local clubs already even using 7” versions ( the original Technics 1200 were available), experimentation was in full swing too, one ,two , four beats ‘delays’ were all around, (‘You’ll never find’-Lou Rawl comes to mind), phasing and unique Reel to Reel tape edits of current hits were also popping up in the top clubs, any Deejay that could not measure up was not able to land the ‘Hot’ clubs, ‘punters’ were well aware of what was going on in the booth, they cheered the good mixes and walked off the floor if you screwed up badly, long , smooth and ‘pretty’ Beat Mixing was all the rage during the ‘European” invasion of the late 70’s with the likes of Moroder, Cerrone, Constandinos, and many others domestic productions; Talking over the music was a big NONO, it represented exactly what the early clubbers were turn off to, TOP 40 RADIO! After SNF (’78) and the Big Disco hype that follow things started to change from the Deejay point of view, but that’s another story.
Gold Record [Level 7]
[quote="QUINNY.
By 1987 a new breed of DJ had emerged in my part of the world. They were younger, slicker and hungry for my (and other older DJs) work. My own 'reign' had come to a close.[/quote]
Same thing happened here, a new generation of Deejays were taking over , they were not necessary better but they kept to their own piers (like we did before) and new gigs were hard to find because all my connections were lost, by the late 80's maybe a couple of Deejays in my generation were still spinning (this meant no back up Dj gigs either), even club managers, Bartenders and Maytredees(sp) that offered good tips before were gone or moved on, by now a new DJ trend had taken over too, no longer you could spin full time in the same club, now club owners wanted a different 'Guest DJ' every night, good for the club (maybe) but it made it that much harder to make a decent living in that profession .
No Longer Charting
Steely: It was inevitable, and as I had already told the manager that I was feeling rather old back in '84, I have to just be thankful for the 3 extra years. To make it to 35, in what was always a young man's game, was pretty good going!
No gongs for being one of the very first mixing jocks in the UK? :o :D :P Oh well!!!!!
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