Songs In 3/4

[Forrrce]

One of the tracks I've been listening to again lately ('Gotta Get A Hold On You' by Vivian Prince) is one of a few club/disco tracks in a 3/4 meter. I used to wonder what the appeal was, as some tracks in this mode were quite big. It's always sounded like a poppy and pedestrian rhythm...just wondered if anybody had difficulty (or otherwise) programming tracks of this ilk, or if these drew different reactions from audiences.

Some examples:

Amy Stewart 'Knock On Wood'
Change 'Searchin''
Voggue 'Dancin' The Night Away'
Cheri/The Murphys 'Murphy's (Jive) Law'
Carol Jiani 'You're Gonna Lose My Love'
Vicky D. 'Mystery Lover'
The Clarke Sisters 'You Brought The Sunshine...'*
Jayne Edwards 'Harmony/I Got It'*
Huey Harris 'You've Got To Be A Winner'

*haven't heard these for over a decade but remember them being in 3/4.

[NickNack]

...just wondered if anybody had difficulty (or otherwise) programming tracks of this ilk, or if these drew different reactions from audiences.

Some examples:

Amy Stewart 'Knock On Wood'

I hated it but the crowd loved it.

Change 'Searchin''
Voggue 'Dancin' The Night Away'

'Classic' disco pieces. Huge floor response.

Jayne Edwards 'Harmony/I Got It'*

Nice club cover to the earlier Gloria Spencer hit.

*haven't heard these for over a decade but remember them being in 3/4.

I'm not a musician but are you sure all these songs are in 3/4? I can count off Change and Voggue in my head and they come off as 4/4 to me, as do the others in the list.

[Forrrce]

[I'm not a musician but are you sure all these songs are in 3/4? I can count off Change and Voggue in my head and they come off as 4/4 to me, as do the others in the list.

Not having been near an instrument (or any music theory) for a very long time, I thought about this before I posted. So I programmed a beat with a 3/4 swing on a program just to confirm for myself - though I could still be wrong.

But importantly, you get my drift anyway - and you have an opinion. Maybe someone musical on the 'board could clear this up for an (appropriately) failed 'world's greatest drummer'?!

[K-Bee]

I'm Not sure if I have ever heard a disco influenced song with a 3/4 beat at all. It's seems more than unlikely that i could work on the dancefloor.
I mean 3/4 is the rhythm that characterizes a Waltz - I must admit disco waltzes are a fairley unknown style to me :lol:
That said, the 3/4 beat is very commonly used in both classical (European composers like Strauss - who actually was known as the king of waltz) and jazz music- Waltz for Debbie by Bill Evans is a very good example of that. However 3/4 also works as a good foundation for many a great soul ballad - for instance "Break Up Is To Make Up" by Will Downing.

[Forrrce]

K-Bee...for this exercise, I counted 6 hi-hit hits to every 4 beats - you can tap these out with your hands and feet to see what I'm on about. Obviously this type of swing has a name, or is at least a recognised meter - though to help put this thread in perspective, I used what I thought was appropriate (and what the program I used displayed) - but also explained that I may not be correct on some of the records, though maybe I've got it wrong, period? For this reason, I listed some well-known songs to get the point across.

Though I'm not quite the only one who's unsure..? :D

[Forrrce]

Dammit, K-Bee...I've just thought about what you've said and here I am again, resplendent in dunce's cap...you're right! What was I thinking of? :oops:

Ah, well - maybe I can't place the type of shuffle I mean, but I hope y'all gets the picture, anyway...

:oops: (again - maybe I should have stuck with the lessons!)

[K-Bee]

I think I'm getting your drift now, Forrrce....listening to knock on wood made me realize the point you were trying to make.
I guess what we're really talking about is still an ordinary 4/4 beat, but with a different feel to it.

I counted 6 hi-hit hits to every 4 beats - you can tap these out with your hands and feet to see what I'm on about

This is the feel we see in Knock On Wood (in a simplified way) as well as almost every blues composition ever written.
The technical term for this would still be 4/4 but with a 12/8 sub division (ie 6 hi-hat hits to every 4 beats).

Obviously, this kind of sub divided 4/4 beat has a music theoretical term but i'm only familiar with it in danish......shuffle is a good guess, but it's not entirely accurate since shuffle beat adds even more on top of this beat and also has a lot to do with the feel drummer puts in it when playing (he sorta binds the singular beats in the rhythm together in a way i'm not really able to fully explain)

I hope this makes at least some sense....This particular beat is in fact seen in quite a few dance tracks.
Check out - "One Step Closer To" by Gavin Christopher as well as both "Searchin" and "Knock on Wood"
However....all 'n all I would probably associate this kind of beat more with 80s dance than 70s disco.

[QUINNY]

Surely you're talking 6/4?
The only effective way to programme them was with a couple of others, so that they didn't stick out like a sore thumb. having said that, if the record was as huge as Knock On Wood or Voggues then it really didn't matter too much. Personally I avoided these types of records unless they were really good.
One of my faves was Fly Too High by Janis Ian. What a classy record!
(Unlikely disco artist, eh Bernie?).

[Forrrce]

There was something pretty questionable, almost cabaret about records with that rhythmic slant. I didn't go a bundle on some but I liked Voggue ('cause I heard it so much) and Janis Ian, which got hammered on the radio also. Tunes like E.W.F.'s 'Gotta Get You Into My Life' were of the same breed, but E.W.F. were beyond reproach then.

Like NickNack and maybe y'all too, I kinda despised the Amii Stewart.

[dj phillip esparza]

I understand what you're saying Forrce.Some tracks have the obvious 4/4 beat and others are not as distictive.That's what throwing you off.Tracks like "I feel love" P.C. remix have the 4/4 beat high in the mix."Knock on wood" as the same beat but it's the vocal and mid range(percussion and synn drums) that are high in the mix.I asked myself this same question when I first try that mix.'What's wrong here.Though I eventually got it.I had to slow P.C. remix to -7(1200's) and "Knock on wood to +7 or there abouts to make the mix.

[SandraDee]

Yes I know what you're getting at here Forrrce. There is a particular rhythmic style that tracks like Change's 'Searching' & Voggue's 'Dancin the Night Away' have. I dont know if it has a name or not. Other tracks with this rhythm that I have in my collection are Linx's 'Throw Away The Key' & Peter Jacques Band's 'The Louder'. It's 4/4 but with an almost reggae-type feel to the rhythm isn't it? Music's so fascinating isn't it with its infinite possibilities.

[NickNack]

Thoughts:

1) Peter Jacques Band's "Is It It", also sounds like "Searching" by Change.

2) I didn't make a concious effort as Quinny suggests to mix another song with the same tempo structure. I'm sure I didn't know 6/4 from 4/4 standing behind those tables and I'm glad of it. Worrying about sub-divided or quanitized hi-hats :-? playing over four quarter-note bass thumps would have driven me crazy. The basic 4/4 was my main concern to hold the timing and a sizzling hi-hat would over-ride just about any rhythm pattern being used on the previous song. But holding the mood, the energy, that's what held the dancefloor and didn't allow the mix to 'stickout like a sore thumb'.

3) Sorry, way off track in part 2. Just that Quinny's reply about picking a similar song had me thinking... Did I do that? Did I even know that? Would I mix like that?

4) I asked my lover about this timing pattern. He is a musician and f*%# if he can remember what, if anything, it's called.

[QUINNY]

NickNack: For my 2 cents worth, I'd say that these 6/4 patterns do stick out like sore thumbs. I'd be surprised if you just slammed 'em in somewhere without very careful consideration to them. For me it would have been something like "ah!, that sounds just like ..............., haven't played that in a while".
6/4 hi hats do clash with straight 8ths or 16ths. It is a totally different rhythm, no? It would always sound a little awkward as a mix. Maybe we segued them in and out of 4/4 stuff until they were big enough to stand up for themselves? I can't fully remember either.

[Forrrce]

It's 4/4 but with an almost reggae-type feel to the rhythm isn't it?

Very good point there, Steely, using Lynx as an example - and the cod-reggae of some Eddy Grant tunes and Stevie Wonder's 'Master Blaster' spring to mind, also.

[paul]

...just wondered if anybody had difficulty (or otherwise) programming tracks of this ilk, or if these drew different reactions from audiences.

Some examples:

Amy Stewart 'Knock On Wood'

I hated it but the crowd loved it.

I'm not a musician but are you sure all these songs are in 3/4? I can count off Change and Voggue in my head and they come off as 4/4 to me, as do the others in the list.

I have no clue what 3/4, 4/4, 36-24-36 means (OK, just kidding on the latter :D )
In my strictly amatuer days of djing, I just went with the beat, the flow of the music and crowd attitude.
Like you Nicky, I hated Knock On Wood too but I know the party people loved it.

[dj phillip esparza]

I also never really like either versions of "knock on wood".But when DJ Billy Limbo mixed "I feel love" the Patrick Cowly remix into the 12" of "Knock on wood" @ Club 70s at the Probe in Hollywood circa 93.I was blown away and still sticks in my mind of one of the big reasons I took up DJing. :o

[Mixmachine]

I remember the first four songs only , “knock on wood” was a hit for me and mixing it with high energy stuff was fun, on the other hand “Dancing the night away” when it first appeared as an “import” was a challenge to mix, mainly because at that tempo it was completely different from the current ‘Lite funk” stuff popular at the time, anyways, in an old BPM black book of mine I found a couple of play lists circa 1982, I don’t remember if it was a busy night , but this is how I programmed the song that night.
….Gonna get along without you now” Violla Wills
96 tears” Thelma Houston
“dancing the night away” Vogue
“when I’m with you” by Sparks.
“hit and Run Lover” Carol Giani

[NickNack]

NickNack: For my 2 cents worth, I'd say that these 6/4 patterns do stick out like sore thumbs. I'd be surprised if you just slammed 'em in somewhere without very careful consideration to them. For me it would have been something like "ah!, that sounds just like ..............., haven't played that in a while".
6/4 hi hats do clash with straight 8ths or 16ths. It is a totally different rhythm, no? It would always sound a little awkward as a mix. Maybe we segued them in and out of 4/4 stuff until they were big enough to stand up for themselves? I can't fully remember either.

I've played "Searching" a good four times this afternoon. To be honest, I don't hear the 6/4 in the hi-hat so there's a good chance I'm not clued in to what you guys are talking about. I know the song has that 'swing beat', like Ashford & Simpson's "Nobody Knows", but that's about all I feel. Is this A&S song 6/4, too?

What I am going to do is pull some music tomorrow and try some mixes with this SOB. Then maybe you guys can tell me if I've pulled 6/4 or 4/4.

[QUINNY]

NickNack: To be honest I don't consider Searchin' as particularly 6/4 cos it had such a strong 4/4 beat to it, especially if you mixed it in at the first flourish/mini crescendo where the timbales do a roll and the real meat of the intro starts. Voggue or Janis Ian are much more 6/4 types.