Disco - Bad Timing

**Forrrce** · September 30th, 2003, 11:33 AM

Just been playing Le Pamplemousse's 'Do You Have Any' and totally forgot how the middle section speeds up at a rate of knots, only to drop back to normal at the start of the last verse...with a bump.

Even with metronomes and click tracks some drummers just fall victim to tape fluctuations, or whatever - and it's very human to speed up, just a tad, when going for that big cymbal crash or doing that complicated roll. With 'Do You Have Any', it's very noticable - almost seems intentional.

Never quite knew how the clap track on Northend's 'Happy Days' stayed so tight with the snare (unless the drummer had some kind of trigger, not via the snare - or carefully overdubbed the claps) - as the beat itself is completely all over the place, timewise.

At the same time, always wondered how I could leave 'Soul Train Theme' by the Soul Train Gang in the mix with a house record, drive 'round the north circular, get some sleep, then return - and they're still locked!!!

**QUINNY** · September 30th, 2003, 05:11 PM

This is another reason why I always felt Salsoul records were overrated to some extent, as they have some of the worst drumming (in the context of variable time keeping) of any records out there. The Beat Goes On by Ripple is a great example, with some really dodgy edits too.

The very worst example has to be Dancing In Outa Space by Atmosfear. That was all over the place and far too tricky for the poor drummer on it.

As for Northend (Tee's Happy surely the preferred side?). That is a puzzle as I don't think samplers were around then, and that's the only effective way that a clap could be triggered in time with the snare. The drummer must have had immaculate time keeping with himself I guess. That's if he did do the handclaps.

A good drummer shouldn't rush fills and rolls, surely?

**Forrrce** · September 30th, 2003, 08:23 PM

Don't get me started on bad edits! But play 'Tee's Happy' and see if you get what I mean, then try to mix it with something constant - you may well find yourself in trouble. Speaking of Salsoul, (Mr. Philly himself) good ole Earl Young, wasn't always a good timekeeper, great as he is - his rolls always seemed to take the tempi up a notch or two. Keith Benson and Jimmy Young were more solid.

Sometimes, though, do you not find a slight rise in tempo quite fitting, almost in a cerebral way? I may be doing so incorrectly but I always think of Harold Melvin's 'Don't Leave Me This Way' as a bit of BPM gainer - yet I think this adds to the overall effect of the song as a whole. Could be the skunk talking, of course.

**Jimmy-Michaels** · October 1st, 2003, 04:01 AM

Wanna hear a few real **** edits? Check out the promo 12" for Alec R Costandinos "Romeo And Juliet" (the 13 min one) and also a horrable excuse for an extended version by **** edit is Giorgio Moroder "Chase" on the promo 12" as well.

DJ Jimmy M

**QUINNY** · October 1st, 2003, 05:30 AM

Forrrce: I've always felt Tee's Happy to be a little lumpy. Tempo is bound to vary with a human drummer and yes, sometimes such variations can add a certain je ne sais quoi. It's when the tempo s l o w s down that the **** really hits the fan.
I was listening to Titanic's Sultana the other day and that has to have the world record for speeding up. Once the track begins to fade it goes like the clappers, a good 10% or more I'd say. It's almost as if the engineer suddenly decided to do a fast forward.
BTW: That's got to be one of the very first 4/4 thumps. I still like it though, 'cos it was a revelation at the time.

**Forrrce** · October 1st, 2003, 07:10 AM

L.S.O.'s 'Let Me Be Your Fantasy' is steady enough tempo-wise but has one of those annoying off-beat edits in the centre join, where someone couldn't be bothered to count the beats in properly. This seemed to happen a lot.

Two of the most misguided edits that spring to mind are on pop records - Godley & Creme's 'Wedding Bells' :o and the 7" of Shalamar's 'There It Is' are shockingly obvious. :P

DJ Jimmy M, is the Costinados on Casablanca? Some of their 12" promos are done in that crappy 'let's take the vocals out and tack it on the end as a part 2' - type manner.

**Jimmy-Michaels** · October 1st, 2003, 07:36 AM

Yes the Costandinos is on Casablanca..what it is supposed to be is a condenced version of the LP length track. What it is in all reality is a very horrable edited version of side A with the intro to side B slapped onto the end very careless and also the tag on from side B is at the wrong pitch..its realllllllllly baddd!!

DJ Jimmy M

**BrunoRepublic** · October 1st, 2003, 08:13 AM

Originally Written by Forrrce

L.S.O.'s 'Let Me Be Your Fantasy' is steady enough tempo-wise but has one of those annoying off-beat edits in the centre join, where someone couldn't be bothered to count the beats in properly.

Unfortunately, the production on this album as a whole is abysmal. Aside from the bad EQ and shoddy edits, the most noticeable flaw is that the first minute and a half of "Let's Make Love In Public Places" is pitched about half a semitone higher.

**Forrrce** · October 1st, 2003, 09:07 AM

Another lazy aspect on the L.S.O. front is both mixes of '...Fantasy' having the same edit flaw.

Lenny Williams' 'Please, Don't Temp Me' is another song that speeds up considerably as it goes along - though this, I feel, definitely adds to the drama.

**NickNack** · October 2nd, 2003, 05:00 PM

Originally Written by Forrrce

Sometimes, though, do you not find a slight rise in tempo quite fitting, almost in a cerebral way? I may be doing so incorrectly but I always think of Harold Melvin's 'Don't Leave Me This Way' as a bit of BPM gainer - yet I think this adds to the overall effect of the song as a whole. Could be the skunk talking, of course.

Perfect choice as an example and I agree it only adds to powerful effect of the song.

I always thought the musicians on Esther Phillips "What a Difference a Day Makes" had swallowed speed or something. I mean my gawd, where are they racing to? Is that them or the engineer? Either way the tempo shift is nothing but annoying.