Radio and the "death" of disco

[Nano]

I quote this from Rickey Vincent's book "Funk: The music, the people, and the rhythm of the One". Vincent has written for magazines like Vibe and is a long-time radio jock, with an own all-funk radio show on the Bay Area (KPFA) at press time (1995). It could be interesting to discuss.
Please take note that the guy is a funk purist, so he blames the disco fad for the demise of funk. But his views on black radio at the time make maybe for a new look on this old theme (why disco died?) on the board.

"It was becoming common knowledge that disco omusic was destroying the integrity of black music, but there was very little that could be done. Those who spoke out in opposition quickly became branded too radical for an increasingly controlled system of promotion, payola, and pale music. Jesse Jackson took the record labels to task for promoting overtly sexual songs, but who was to blame for the overtly insipid records? Everyone knew who was doing it -it was everyone- but nobody wanted to lose their job, either. To oppose disco amounted to taking a racial stand, such as Atlanta's legendary deejay and promoter Jack Gibson, a.k.a. Jack the Rapper, whose weekly black radio tip sheet often defiantly claimed, 'Black radio shouldn't play any white records'. But many artists were told to play 'white' music in the form of disco singles, and if they wanted to keep their jobs, they were obligated to contribute to the demise of their own traditions. Ultimately there was nothing black America could do about the withering of black popular music as a voice of its people. Nothing could be done about the plethora of corporate radio stations taking over black-owned stations, about the swarm of chain-stores squeezing out mom-and-pop record stores, and the invervention of major-label managers and promoters undermining the autonomy of black performers. The only silver lining in this fiasco was the fact that white America went to war against disco as well.
It's safe to say that the average rock and roll fan was through with disco by 1979. With the absurd sales of the 'Saturday Night Fever' soundtrack, disco beats had begun to sound sappy to even the most uncultured Americans. While watching many of the remaining pop and rock icons such as Elton John, David Bowie, and the Rolling Stones degenerate into disco dementia, many rock fans saw the same corporate takeover of their radio as black-music fans saw, and were just as irate. Many blamed disco for the problems of rock and roll and placed all black music under the guise of disco as well. Since most of the anti-disco funk music -P-Funk, Slave, Brick, Bar-Kays- never found its way to pop radio, the ignorance and condemnation were to be expected.
Unlike black urban radio stations (whose deejays couldn't trash disco and keep their jobs), rock and pop radio stations hired deejays who claimed the integrity to respond to their audience, and went on the warpath against the disco scourge. Stations resorted to call-in contests on their most hated disco song, used slogans like 'ABOLISH DISCO IN OUR LIFETIME', featured gimmicks like a 'no-disco weekend', and even resorted to smashing disco records over the air. One irate rock deejay in Chicago was so obsessed with the disco phenomenon (which was indeed taking over rock stations and putting rock deejays out of work) that he organized a promotion with the Chicago White Sox baseball team in which fans would be admitted for 98 cents if they brought along a disco redcord for the 'disco demolition' rally in between games of a double-header with the Detroit Tigers on July 12, 1979. Between ten thousand and twenty thousand records were reportedly placed in the center of the field and blown up, to the delight of the crowd, which, according to news reports, went wild, tearing up the field and getting in fights, chanting, 'Disco Sucks'. The field was trashed and the second game was canceled, but the deejay made his point. Disco, in fact, sucked.
Disco ultimately became a pseudonym for any black music to most of America's rock fans, and when the disco fad effectively was killed off, by 1982 at the latest, it was still used as a term to define black dance music. Labeling everything black as disco was a shrewd gimmick by those who did not wish competition from blacks in the business; stigmatizing black music helped to paralyze reform efforts and segregate the music even further. Unfortunately, The Funk was included in the blanket condemnation of disco by critics, rock fans, jazz fans, and trendy pop knuckleheads. But as time would prove, nothing could stop the relentless tide of grooving, meaningful music, The Funk of the late seventies".

So, what do you think?

[QUINNY]

I think the guy's more or less got it right. I've always viewed Disco music (the genre as recognized by most posters here) as a white incarnation: not in the sense of the people who made it but in the sense of who it was aimed at. That's why it was so strongly, nae overpoweringly 4/4, 'cos that had been the foundation of rock and it made it easier for your average white guys to dance to. It has to be said that most DJs (myself included) openly welcomed music that was aimed fairly and squarely at the dance floor, was acceptable to a wide cross section of people and had an uncomplicated rhythm that insisted on dancers participation. It was a victim of its own success.
Now, the really funny thing is that Funk probably appeals to white rock fans even more because of its earthiness, heavy offbeat, general instrumentation and its nod to Rock 'n' Roll with its rebellious undertones. As Marky might say "GO FIGURE"

[originalbigm]

I would agree with much of his observations.When the discoteque scene emerged in North America main genres played were Funk,Soul and R&B from which the disco style or sound evolved .Consequently they became inextricably linked.
One just has to look at the club playlists of the late seventies to see a mix of Funk,R&B and disco.Also let's not forget that a huge number of disco acts and performers were black consequently the white community linked disco with the black culture.

[Outsider]

This guy makes it sound like disco was nothing more than a corporate plan to destroy every other type of music. I didn't think that rock and funk suffered during the disco era.

:evil:

[UltimateBeeGeesFan]

The notion of Disco threatening dedicated rock fans is ridiculous. It was the average listener that the various genres were going after to sell more reocrds and disco sold, as a genre the most because it appealed to people of all nationalities, black or white. The reason disco was badmouthed was because it was popular, therefore it was the pop( which stand for popular, that is its root) of the late 70's, and as it was popular, it sold, which made the other genres less popular to the average listener, not the dedicated funksters, (as the first poster claimed,though I bet many fans of funk loved disco) or rockers. Seriously, go figure, back then it was hard to download off then net free music as the net did not exist for the people to use, so money was the issue at the core as well as those rockers' insecurities about themselves, which made them fear disco.
And I would say that the gay disco thing was separate from mainstream disco, as mainstream disco was about heterosexual love. I wouldn't doubt it there were more closet gays in rock then there were ever open gays in gay disco. Mainstream disco was a straight thing and as noted many times, popular in New York among working class Italians,a traditionally sensual people, as opposed to the English and their Puritanical ways. Of course, every person is different in their own way, but I am simply stating cultural traditions.

[Disco Funk]

Mainstream disco was a straight thing and as noted many times, popular in New York among working class Italians,a traditionally sensual people, as opposed to the English and their Puritanical ways.

What about the Village People?!! They were very mainstream.

Disco Funk

[Salsoul1975]

The notion of Disco threatening dedicated rock fans is ridiculous. It was the average listener that the various genres were going after to sell more reocrds and disco sold, as a genre the most because it appealed to people of all nationalities, black or white. The reason disco was badmouthed was because it was popular, therefore it was the pop( which stand for popular, that is its root) of the late 70's, and as it was popular, it sold, which made the other genres less popular to the average listener, not the dedicated funksters, (as the first poster claimed,though I bet many fans of funk loved disco) or rockers. Seriously, go figure, back then it was hard to download off then net free music as the net did not exist for the people to use, so money was the issue at the core as well as those rockers' insecurities about themselves, which made them fear disco.
And I would say that the gay disco thing was separate from mainstream disco, as mainstream disco was about heterosexual love. I wouldn't doubt it there were more closet gays in rock then there were ever open gays in gay disco. Mainstream disco was a straight thing and as noted many times, popular in New York among working class Italians,a traditionally sensual people, as opposed to the English and their Puritanical ways. Of course, every person is different in their own way, but I am simply stating cultural traditions.

You make some very interesting points. Coming from the NY/NJ area (born and bred), mainstream disco has always been a stronghold of the heterosexual Italian working class (exactly how you described). This has long been swept under the rug, further insinuating the notion that is was only favored among the Hispanic and black population. To this day, old-school disco and '80s freestyle has a considerably large Italian following in the Northeast.

Gay disco was never truly meant to be pushed into the mainstream, although some elements surfaced, like the Village People and Sylvester. Still, the Top 40 disco catered by and large to heterosexuals. I don't think heterosexuals ever turned their backs on it; if you heard "Y.M.C.A." or "Last Dance" at someone's Communion party in 1991, that was proof enough the music went on. I believe that criticism of disco was almost entirely media-driven; I can recall in the early '90s when one of the weekly newsmagazines said that disco would never come back into fashion. Oh how they were wrong...

As for the rock establishment disliking disco, I think it may have been a case of major sour grapes. By the late '70s, rock criticism had become extremely pretensious, mainly due to the fact that their genre had to come to grips with "arena" rock and "corporate" rock, which were becoming the established sounds. The deaths of Joplin, Morrison, Hendrix, etc., along with the demise of late '60s-early '70s ethos were inevitable, and with the self-righteous rock media looking for a scapegoat, they found one in disco, which was finding a growing audience by the mid-'70s. If rock found its nirvana with Woodstock in 1969, disco found theirs with Studio 54 and "Saturday Night Fever" in 1977. The messages may have been the same, but disco had something over rock: it had universal appeal and didn't experience sudden barriers.

[Nano]

And don't forget Vietnam. It's a fact that after a war people want to dance; it happened with WWI (charleston), WWII (swing) and Korea (r&b, rock and roll). Vietnam (also the Falklands/Malvinas war in Argentina) testify that people want to dance even if they lose.

[garrybcoston]

Woh, woh.....wait a minute here. I agree that Disco was mostly to blame for the decline and almost extinction of funk music.......but also R&B, and Soul, and Rock, and Jazz, and Pop, etc. This topic should not just be pointed at funk music even though this particular thread's focus is on funk music; disco was responsible for damaging all music genres during its era.

The problem, or you could also call it a blessing was this.......disco was international, and here at home and abroad crossed the racial lines and racial divide....i.e, disco appealed to all races and types of people. People that loved other music genres had a real problem with this, especially when their own groups, musicians, friends, families, etc. jumped on the disco bandwagon.

Before disco came on the scene, you could say that Soul/funk/R&B was primarily black; then Rock, Pop, and Classical was primarily white; the only music that really crossed the racial divide was Jazz, and of course most of the musicians were black; Blues music was black for a while, and then whites began to become enamored with blues; but later many jazz musicians would become disco musicians, as would musicians and artists for the soul, funk, R&B, and genres of music; yes some of these artists, vocalists, and groups jumped on the disco bandwagon, but the ride on that wagon was very very short.

So what I am saying, being a black man who loved disco, is that disco didn't just affect black music. It robbed and almost snuffed out other music genres as well, though not intentionally. Disco just acquired attention, zest, zeal, and appeal from all races and ethnicities of peoples from around the world; and I firmly believe that a lot of people, especially those that loved just one type of music, either hated this, spurned it, or just disdained it for no real, justified or apparent reason. Let's face it, disco music did not sound bad at all; yes it was repetitious, but so were other types of music, and in my opinion, this is a feeble and poor reason for hating a music genre.

Disco was primarily well received most by people that had an innate and overall understanding and feeling of music, that is, people that were musicians, or professional musicians, or even musicians and people that read music or performed music. I may be wrong by saying this, but a lot of the people that I remember who were staunch disco fans were musicians, vocalists, etc., as I was and still am. Orchestrations and compositions are hard to listen to or be accepted and clearly understood by the normal un-musical person, and throw in the fad and the fact that disco encompassed more than just the music, and you may just come up with jealousy or an innate hate of disco. Let's face it, funk, R&B, Soul, Jazz, Classical and Pop did not consume and encompass the whole world's culture like disco. Thus you have people that enjoy just one music genre either jealous or disdained by the fact that one type of music can influence and take over the world and/or eliminate their type of music.

My take y'all, let me know what you think.

Garry:icon_cool:

[garrybcoston]

This guy makes it sound like disco was nothing more than a corporate plan to destroy every other type of music. I didn't think that rock and funk suffered during the disco era.

:evil:

I don't know how old you are, but he is right, not 100% but he's close; disco damaged or almost snuffed out most other music genres during its existence. Rock and funk suffered miserably during that era, especially rock, in which the rock and rollers backlashed in 1978 through an anti-disco marketing and promotion ploy which was successful and marked the decline and eventual death of disco two years later.

Garry:icon_cry:

[garrybcoston]

The notion of Disco threatening dedicated rock fans is ridiculous. It was the average listener that the various genres were going after to sell more reocrds and disco sold, as a genre the most because it appealed to people of all nationalities, black or white. The reason disco was badmouthed was because it was popular, therefore it was the pop( which stand for popular, that is its root) of the late 70's, and as it was popular, it sold, which made the other genres less popular to the average listener, not the dedicated funksters, (as the first poster claimed,though I bet many fans of funk loved disco) or rockers. Seriously, go figure, back then it was hard to download off then net free music as the net did not exist for the people to use, so money was the issue at the core as well as those rockers' insecurities about themselves, which made them fear disco.
And I would say that the gay disco thing was separate from mainstream disco, as mainstream disco was about heterosexual love. I wouldn't doubt it there were more closet gays in rock then there were ever open gays in gay disco. Mainstream disco was a straight thing and as noted many times, popular in New York among working class Italians,a traditionally sensual people, as opposed to the English and their Puritanical ways. Of course, every person is different in their own way, but I am simply stating cultural traditions.

I think the "gay" thing that was "stigged" onto disco was over inflated; disco was popular as you say and was the popular music of its time and during its existence; so every type of race, culture, sex preference group, etc. loved, revered and worshipped disco. Why just cut the gay slice out of the pie? If you do that, then maybe you should say that disco was a white thing as the largest population sect that loved disco was white (on an international level).

Garry:icon_question:

[FunkMaster]

I think the guy's more or less got it right. I've always viewed Disco music (the genre as recognized by most posters here) as a white incarnation: not in the sense of the people who made it but in the sense of who it was aimed at. That's why it was so strongly, nae overpoweringly 4/4, 'cos that had been the foundation of rock and it made it easier for your average white guys to dance to. It has to be said that most DJs (myself included) openly welcomed music that was aimed fairly and squarely at the dance floor, was acceptable to a wide cross section of people and had an uncomplicated rhythm that insisted on dancers participation. It was a victim of its own success.
Now, the really funny thing is that Funk probably appeals to white rock fans even more because of its earthiness, heavy offbeat, general instrumentation and its nod to Rock 'n' Roll with its rebellious undertones. As Marky might say "GO FIGURE"

Yeah,It's pretty ironic when you think about it.Disco originated from blacks as a watered down pop version of Funk music.Funk had a complex groove while disco was very repetitive beat wise which is why Funk didn't get as much play on pop (white radio) as much as the simpler Disco form

[discopsycho]

The author writes of "anti-disco funk music" and lists Brick. Their big hit in the mid-70's was "Dazz", which of course stood for "disco jazz". Their follow-up was "Dusic". So, I don't think the author thought his thesis through very thoroughly. Slave's sound also became smoother and more disco through the seventies.

Also, I think disco introduced a lot of people to funk music. It did me. Especially after the backlash, if one liked dancing and dance music, one often turned to R&B and funk.

As far as black stations playing disco music due to pressure to play white artists, during the seventies, I remember hearing white artists all the time on R&B stations. Steve Miller Band's "The Joker" and Hall and Oates come to mind. Also, when I listened to rock stations, I often heard The Isley Brothers and Earth, Wind and Fire. And, David Bowie and Elton John both performed on Soul Train!

So, although I agree radio stations became more segregated as the seventies progressed, I don't think it had anything to do with disco. I also don't believe that disco harmed funk music.

Re: Italian-Americans and disco, weren't many of the early disco djs Italian-American?