why do some think that 80's euro/italo disco/hi-nrg is gay music

[djcarl77]

I'm straight , and i like and even play italo disco/hi-nrg
in my car while driving. I know , supposely this music
was target toward the gay community. I know many people
that like it are not gay. Is it the music itself that sounds gay or
because the gay clubs played it and people labeled it as .

So what exactly is the reason why this music is labelled "gay" music?
Some songs seem like, but many do not.

It gets old when some say that you have to be gay to like the music.
I thought it was target to both gay and straight, etc....

[discokicks]

I think much of the hi-nrg music coming out of Europe was for general audiences...not specifically for gay crowds. Most of the big NRG club hits in the '80s could be heard regularly on European mainstream radio. I was always fascinated by that. I'd look at Dutch and Spanish pop charts back then and see titles on there that I was excitedly mixing in only for my gay crowds here in Canada. Some labels out of the UK, like Passion and Record Shack Records, were certainly geared to gay audiences but labels such as ZYX, Flea Records and DiscoMagic were more mainstream hi-nrg.

[djcarl77]

I think much of the hi-nrg music coming out of Europe was for general audiences...not specifically for gay crowds. Most of the big NRG club hits in the '80s could be heard regularly on European mainstream radio. I was always fascinated by that. I'd look at Dutch and Spanish pop charts back then and see titles on there that I was excitedly mixing in only for my gay crowds here in Canada. Some labels out of the UK, like Passion and Record Shack Records, were certainly geared to gay audiences but labels such as ZYX, Flea Records and DiscoMagic were more mainstream hi-nrg.

Yes,but i live in the U.S and people, but not all think italo or whatever type of disco from europe is gay
So is it the music itself ? or something else?

Canadian disco/hi-nrg example: Tapps/Trans-X/The Flirts has nice songs, but i don't find
the music gay at all.

[SandraDee]

Yes,but i live in the U.S and people, but not all think italo or whatever type of disco from europe is gay

Maybe they are like Frasier's dad & believe that all European men are gay too.

[SandraDee]

i don't find
the music gay at all.

How can music have a sexuality?

[discokicks]

Yes,but i live in the U.S and people, but not all think italo or whatever type of disco from europe is gay
So is it the music itself ? or something else?

Canadian disco/hi-nrg example: Tapps/Trans-X/The Flirts has nice songs, but i don't find
the music gay at all.

In North America, hi-nrg music was embraced in the gay clubs and therefore, suffers from the stigma of being labelled "gay music". Why it wasn't more popular in straight clubs always bewildered me...fast, pounding beats, hypnotic and mostly happy...I always referred to it as feel-good music and an extension of feel-good 70s disco but no music is gay or straight.

[FranceJoliFan]

The reason is Jade's I'm Gonna Get Your Love and the same-sex identified riff that starts at :21...

[SandraDee]

The reason is Jade's I'm Gonna Get Your Love and the same-sex identified riff that starts at :21...

Ah it's all so obvious now you've pointed it out FJF! I should've realised that a synth riff can have the power to compel any innocent listener to immediately have sex with someone of the same gender. I can't believe I didn't notice this before. This is a real light bulb moment for me.

[FranceJoliFan]

This is a real light bulb moment for me.

On the Kinsey Scale, this song is a 6. But maybe that's why I like it so much.
: )

But all kidding aside, I think this is a valid question. And in the post-disco early 80s, I think the gay clubs were simply more willing to play progressive dance music. Which was coming out of Italy and elsewhere

But I think there was also a unique gay hi-energy sound. Anyone could enjoy the music. But songs like So Many Men, So Little Time and Angel Man had a special place in the hearts of gay men (as well It's Raining Men, Stormy Weather, Midnight Radio, Don't Stop The Train, Give Me A Break, Hit & Run Lover, etc.)

And add to that the openly gay artists of the time, and their club hits (Sylvester's Do Ya Wanna Funk, Divine's Native Love, Bronski Beat's Smalltown Boy, etc.) It's just what was in the air at the time.

But overall, I see it as the gay clubs preserving and promoting dance music, and keeping the disco spirit alive in the US during a rough patch . It was an exciting time in music and gay culture.

[langlang]

good one,sandra dee. to be honest, all disco not just hi-nrg has a certain gay connotation to it. i have even heard house referred to as "fag" music. but, this usually comes from hardcore rockers or the hip hop crowd. well, we all know that the music started in the underground clubs,which were to a large extent gay clubs, a large number of producers and artists are gay and some themes and lyrics are gay themed-carl bean and boystown gang being the most prominent. as a young kid growing up in the south and discovering this music ,i picked up on the gay connotations of it,and had to make a decision-did i want to be associated with this? what would my friends say? but, the music was just too good to worry about such silliness. i really believe it helped me to get over a lot of hang ups and just see people as people, without stupid labels. i did'nt care about anything but the music-if the artist was gay who cares? as someone else stated hi-nrg really gets the gay tag because it was the gay clubs that embraced post-disco nrg, as most clubs were moving to a more street sound-electro,hip hop and wave.

[djcarl77]

How can music have a sexuality?

Yes ,you are right

[djcarl77]

good one,sandra dee. to be honest, all disco not just hi-nrg has a certain gay connotation to it. i have even heard house referred to as "fag" music. but, this usually comes from hardcore rockers or the hip hop crowd. well, we all know that the music started in the underground clubs,which were to a large extent gay clubs, a large number of producers and artists are gay and some themes and lyrics are gay themed-carl bean and boystown gang being the most prominent. as a young kid growing up in the south and discovering this music ,i picked up on the gay connotations of it,and had to make a decision-did i want to be associated with this? what would my friends say? but, the music was just too good to worry about such silliness. i really believe it helped me to get over a lot of hang ups and just see people as people, without stupid labels. i did'nt care about anything but the music-if the artist was gay who cares? as someone else stated hi-nrg really gets the gay tag because it was the gay clubs that embraced post-disco nrg, as most clubs were moving to a more street sound-electro,hip hop and wave.

Yes, that's the point that some themes, and lyrics in songs are gay oriented, but not all. So to apply to all hi-nrg/euro/italo is tag gay is foolish. It all depends. Living in Ca, especially in L.A, i've seen many tough looking/kinda gang bangers who played the music.Obviously did not completely see it as "gay" music. The cannotation to the music is a mix perception.

[FranceJoliFan]

When I used to listen to the Patrick Cowley remix of Hot Leather by The Passengers, it seemed like underground leather bar music. But discovering Italian TV footage of the group on YouTube now, they seem very mainstream. So it is interesting how a trip across the Atlantic (and a Patrick Cowley remix) can change your perception of a song.

[discokicks]

When I used to listen to the Patrick Cowley remix of Hot Leather by The Passengers, it seemed like underground leather bar music. But discovering Italian TV footage of the group on YouTube now, they seem very mainstream. So it is interesting how a trip across the Atlantic (and a Patrick Cowley remix) can change your perception of a song.

When I first came out, I remember Azul Y Negro's "The Night" very distinctly....a darker dance sound that seemed so incredibly suited to my want of male/male contact. Whether it was just the booze and the lights or something else, it certainly had its mesmerizing way of turning on this timid, smalltown boy...



I think that was a major part of hi-nrg's appeal for gay men...the quite masculine, sinister-y electronic sound on the one hand and on the other, there was the contrast of happy vibes. A DJ could go from light to dark and back to light mixing up the energy and atmosphere for all personalities in the club. As the one behind the turntables, I loved that power of orchestrating the night's mood.

[FranceJoliFan]

I think that was a major part of hi-nrg's appeal...the quite masculine, sinister-y electronic sound on the one hand and on the other, there was the contrast of happy vibes. A DJ could go from light to dark and back to light mixing up the energy and atmosphere for all personalities in the club. As the one behind the turntables, I loved that power of orchestrating the night's mood.

Interesting observations. (And thanks for posting the video. Another old favorite I can now put a name to.)


The second Macho album seemed to capture the masculine/sinister/happy vibe. Which is the Italo sub-genre known as Bathhouse Music. Still sounds great today:




But Macho really set the vibe on their first album:

[langlang]

seems to me hi-nrg really played up the whole muscle,leather,gay vibe, so it gets the tag. even though a lot of divas sing nrg, it always to me had the most gay vibe to it

[FranceJoliFan]

seems to me hi-nrg really played up the whole muscle,leather,gay vibe, so it gets the tag. even though a lot of divas sing nrg, it always to me had the most gay vibe to it

I agree. And from the start, there was obvious marketing of it to the gay community, so that added to the perception:

easy going - fear.jpg
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macho-roll.jpg

But what seemed to cement the association were the scores of Gay cd compilations:

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Gay Classic - Vol_1 Over The Rainbow (front cover - MAIN).jpg
Gay Classics Mega Mix - Vol 1 (front cover) EDIT.jpg

So by the time this came out, the formula was set:

club%2069.jpg

So I think the repackaging of Hi Energy club music with go-go boy artwork shows that the record companies were aiming at (exploiting?) the gay market. Not that it was all a bad thing. Although these cds really flooded the market. And made me wonder how many compilations you could create using the same Hazell Dean song over and over.

[JussiK]

Hi-nrg and disco for gay clubs? Might have been the case once. For years and years, I've been spinning 70's disco music that's dark, ominous sounding and electronic, with lyrics about semi-forced, tearful anal intercourse (Giants: Backdoor Man). Some of the stuff is quite the opposite, with hysterically cute melodies, girlie vocals and a (package) holiday feeling (Sunshine Combo: Sweet Corazon). Marginalized, camp, over the top and bizarre. Still, the crowds who go for this stuff are young and predominantly straight. No, 99% straight. The gays don't care, all they want is overfamiliarity and Lady Gaga. Even the older gays who were there the first time around don't care anymore, they just want to appear as young as possible and act like all they want is today's pop. If they dance to disco it's got to be something they already know. Nothing over the top, bizarre or something that's new to their ears. - The 90's hi-nrg cd comps were sold with the same idea of familiarity, it was music that was already familiar to it's target audience. No previously unrealesed cuts. No surprises. The key word is Familiarity. - You can blame Madonna of course. She destroyed gay club culture. The old cow is probably over by now thank god. Too bad the damage cannot be undone.

[SandraDee]

You can blame Madonna of course. She destroyed gay club culture.

Why is that? Surely she can't be to blame for everything that's bad in today's gay culture? Personally I feel that many gays have been seduced by the more inclusive acceptance of them by the mainstream popular culture & don't want to belong to a dark, sinister underworld/sub-culture any more. This is good in a socio-political way but bad from the musical/artistic angle. I agree with you Jussi about gay clubbers these days - this is why I hardly ever bother with the gay scene any more. It's a shame 'cos it used to be the mut's nuts.

[Cdnbob]

A couple of comments...
While I enjoyed HINRG music of that time when going out to clubs etc, today I find this music so terribly dated and extremely unimaginative and reptitious. Compare that to disco music from the early 70s to the early 80s - I don't find this music dated at all, in fact I find it just as fresh and exciting as it was back in the day. But this is just my opinion. One of my fave HINRG songs is "Stargazing" by Earlene Bentley & Sylvester. Several others too.

Why is that? Surely she can't be to blame for everything that's bad in today's gay culture? Personally I feel that many gays have been seduced by the more inclusive acceptance of them by the mainstream popular culture & don't want to belong to a dark, sinister underworld/sub-culture any more. This is good in a socio-political way but bad from the musical/artistic angle. I agree with you Jussi about gay clubbers these days - this is why I hardly ever bother with the gay scene any more. It's a shame 'cos it used to be the mut's nuts.

My take on this is that we did it to ourselves in that ever ending quest to keep looking young and having the best body on the block where its got to the point that if you're over 30 in the gay club scene your dead meat - no one wants to know you exist - and if you don't have a body that has the biggest biceps and the biggest pecs and the biggest you know what - then you're nothing. They don't want to know you. I don't bother going to clubs anymore, or mainstream gay society, mainly because I'm over 30 - actually over 50, I don't have the body of a greek god, I'm nerdy (I like shows like Doctor Who and other scifi stuff) and I don't do endless drugs and drink like a fish. While I'm proud of who I am as a person I find being in mainstream gay society is like being back in high school with all its clicques and in groups etc. I hated it in high school so why should I be forced to like it now. Again, that's just my take on things.

[BrunoRepublic]

You can blame Madonna of course. She destroyed gay club culture.

She didn't destroy gay club culture; gays did when they decided they didn't want to hear anything else.

[JussiK]

"While I enjoyed HINRG music of that time when going out to clubs etc, today I find this music so terribly dated and extremely unimaginative and reptitious." - Tried to re-introduce hi-nrg to young & young-ish gay audiences here a year or so ago with some friends at a heavy duty men-only club, thinking if it was played loud enough they'd go for it. Gradually, we began to undersand our mistake - the music really is like you say unimaginative and very repetitious, without any trancey qualities that can make repetition hypnotic. The beats are monotonous yet not robotic in a good way as in much of cosmic robodisco. They're just not working, they're dated beyond redemption. Still, as that stuff was mostly what we had in our bags, we played Hazell Dean etc. Even Primitive Desire by Eastbound Expressway that does work in any other context sounded useless there surrounded by similar-sounding stuff. A serious error of judgement. Maybe someone more talented&personally into the sound could have made it a kicking night, who knows.

"She didn't destroy gay club culture; gays did when they decided they didn't want to hear anything else." - You're right of course, but she became to epitomize the scene. She greedily capitalized on it all didn't she, being as calculative as possible to the very end, even ripping off boring old Abba.

[discokicks]

You can blame Madonna of course. She destroyed gay club culture. The old cow is probably over by now thank god. Too bad the damage cannot be undone.

She didn't destroy gay club culture; gays did when they decided they didn't want to hear anything else.

No argument from me on either point.

When I began djing in '83, the excitement of Hi-NRG and Eurobeat took hold of me in a big way and to see how popular it was on gay dancefloors was just like heaven! Where else was I going to hear Joe Yellow's "Lover To Lover" or The Twins' "Not The Loving Kind" but in the gay bar. My friends and I would start at the straight dance clubs to start the night (we weren't like the others who had disco naps) but after a couple of cocktails, we couldn't wait to fly off to our gay places to hear Eartha Kitt snarl that she loved men.

But in that same year, Madonna's pop-dancey "Holiday" burst onto the scene. Interestingly enough, it didn't do much on my dancefloor when I first introduced it but I figured since it's staying at the top spot on Billboard's dance chart, I'd give it a chance. My crowd was much more into trancey energy. The big songs in that special summer of '83 that heated the nights were Bobby O's "She Has A Way", Divine's "Native Love", Tapps' "My Forbidden Lover", New Order's "Blue Monday" and you worked all of it until you reached the peak of the night with Sylvester's "Don't Stop"!

This was the music that ignited the gay underground dance scene but it all changed as Madonna's popularity grew. Suddenly we were staying closer to her beat range to mix in "Lucky Star" and "Into The Groove". I had quickly grown tired of Madonna by 1985. There wasn't a single night in the dj booth where I didn't get requests for Madonna and that trend of nightly requests lasted right up to my last time in the dj booth three years ago. I joke about it but quite honestly, I remember two nights in particular over my 25 years in the booth, where I remarked, as I shut down the sound system, that I didn't get someone at my door asking for "anything by Madonna".

Motion's "Don't Stop" best represents that sound and emotion of Hi-NRG's hypnotizing appeal (summer of '83 again). There was passion there...the music evoked it and passed it onto the dancer....

[BrunoRepublic]

I started clubbing around 1990, and I couldn't understand where the myth came from that gays listened to the best music. All I ever seemed to hear was Madonna, Madonna, some other screechy divas, Madonna, ad nauseum. To this day, I have never understood the appeal or the belief that she was somehow the patron saint of all queerdom, or why everything that she did was So Important. I went out dancing every weekend for two years and I can only name *one* occasion where I did not hear Madonna at some point. Nobody ever seemed to tire of "Express Yourself", even after 500 plays. Ugh.

I wrote a piece a few years ago about how if you wanted to have the hottest gay club in town, you didn't need a DJ at all. You merely needed to put the CD of "Confessions On A Dancefloor" on repeat and leave it (or, if you're aiming for the 35+ crowd, use "You Can Dance" instead).

[discokicks]

I wrote a piece a few years ago about how if you wanted to have the hottest gay club in town, you didn't need a DJ at all. You merely needed to put the CD of "Confessions On A Dancefloor" on repeat and leave it (or, if you're aiming for the 35+ crowd, use "You Can Dance" instead).

There's definitely some sort of psychology to study with this phenomena. Up to the introduction of Madonna, the gay community had only itself to depend on and we did a pretty damn good job of it. With the introduction of Madonna came this idea that we somehow needed a goddess. Perhaps there was this common entity that tied things together (?) but did we really need it? At that time, we were experiencing a devastating health crisis...perhaps she represented some sort of path to the mainstream of society...a way out of a darkness that some convinced themselves they were in and self-inflicted.

I'm glad that I got to experience a little bit of gay life before "her". I didn't get to experience Donna Summer in those wondrous peak years of disco but I don't think her popularity is comparable.