"Secret" Teddy Pendergrass Disco

[remicks]

*****

well secret to me certainly and perhaps to you too : perusing 9 pages here at discomusic.com of Pendergrass related entries over the years and I don't find any mention of these tunes .....

and Philadelphia International certainly didn't do much to make these club favorites at the time ....


so unless you happened to be paying attention that side four of the 1979 Pendergrass lp LIVE ! COAST TO COAST



is made up of new studio recorded material -

you , like me, easily overlooked these hidden gems buried there :

WHERE DID ALL THE LOVING GO (PING citing)

SHOUT AND SCREAM

in the midst of the '79 glut, I guess PIR couldn't be bothered with working these songs by their then hottest star [confused with tongue out]

no remixing (essential by '79) ! .... no 12" pressings!

Hard to fathom.

Seriously- overall, which label handled their disco material the worst ,

Motown or Philadelphia International??

*****

[Scientist]

Good spot remicks. Do you think these sound like 1979 studio recordings or tunes left over from earlier sessions ?

[Funkin Dunc]

Where Did All The Lovin' Go, It's You I Love, and Shout And Scream all appear on the UK Westside release "TP...Plus" which came out in 1999, and is basically Teddy's TP set plus the studio recordings from "Live Coast To Coast". Lewis Dene of Blues & Soul Magazine wrote in his sleeve notes:
"...it's been speculated that this trio are either outtakes which failed to make the final selection for "Teddy" or were from early sessions for what would become the "TP" opus - either way they're far too good to be buried at the back end of a live album".

I'm a total PIR freak but I don't think that Kenny and Leon really saw their label as a disco label, just a label which frequently produced great tunes that were great to dance to. Certainly, I think PIR lost it when Baker, Harris and Young plus Montana jumped ship. Those guys were the driving force behind so much of PIR's finest material, and when they left MFSB were never able to recreate the same magic, even though they were excellent musicians. I'm in no way dissing PIR though. It's just that the fine music that was produced after 1976 was for the most part aimed at soul fans rather than disco fans - in my opinion. Personally I love both genres.

[Disco Funk]

If you listen to the PIR albums by Teddy from about '82 to '84, it's all leftovers from sessions he did before he left the label. And they're not just stuff he recorded from right before he left, some of the tracks sound like they were recorded in the late 70s, and they just enhanced them to make them sound more '80s'.

Disco Funk

[remicks]

Good spot remicks. Do you think these sound like 1979 studio recordings or tunes left over from earlier sessions ?

Ya, instead of saying "new" studio recorded material I'd have been better to say "unreleased" studio material .

Since the musicians on each song correspond exactly , I think that whenever they were recorded, it was the same session . The biggest difference is that they have different arrangers---John Ursy doing SCREAM AND SHOUT , Jerry Cohen: WHERE DID ALL THE LOVING GO.
also S&S is Gamble/Huff penned, WDATLG : McFadden & Whitehead (along with Cohen) and the latter just has that brighter spirit McFadden & Whitehead were incorporating at that time.

I've let WHERE DID ALL THE LOVING GO inundate my brain for the last several days and it has now become (perhaps) my favorite post-Bluenotes song by Teddy . If it just wasn't for those ill-applied PINGS !!

And boy-howdy, what fun a remixer like Walter Gibbons would have had with this song . I think the sassy Sigma Sweethearts would have gotten even more presence on this ......their part that begins @ 3:10:

" Where'd you put that lovin' : Where's it at?
Where'd you put that lovin? : I want it back" . .....open the song with that

and at some point in the remix , isolate their later high-pitched inquisition (4:06).....

"where'd you put it- where'd you put it????"

And definitively THE line of the song that could've been built upon @ 3:29:

Teddy lamenting:

" Ah girl ...........why you wanna seem like you wanna killlll me???" lol

Funkin Dunc

I'm a total PIR freak but I don't think that Kenny and Leon really saw their label as a disco label

I 100% agree with that .
Which was their greatest folly. Imagine letting disco groups like The Trammps and The Salsoul Orchestra..... comprised of your own musicians!!!! .....slip away from you....

They were the label that layed the disco golden egg, and yet instead of whipping up wild souffles with acts like Loleatta Holloway and The Ritchie Family , they seemed to prefer cheesy omelets from MFSB and Lou Rawls.

In some ways it was probably better that the Salsoul crowd did break away from their original stewards, because maybe their disco adventurism would never have been realized under PIR. .......(?) ................


*****

[SandraDee]

I'm a total PIR freak but I don't think that Kenny and Leon really saw their label as a disco label, just a label which frequently produced great tunes that were great to dance to.

I agree with you that PIR generally became less disco post '76 (just as everyone else jumped on the bandwagon), but how do you explain the licensing of Frantique which has no soul content? Maybe a last ditch attempt at being a 'disco' label?

[Disco Funk]

I think they had a lot of jazzy soul on their label, and they did put out a lot of dancefloor. But with regards to strictly doing disco, I agree they weren't following the trends. And that's why their music is more accessible to a wider audience (i.e. it doesn't alienate soul music fans) than say a Cerrone or Rinder & Lewis.

I'm glad that Baker Harris Young left, because it paved the way for guys like Jimmy Williams, Michael Foreman (both on bass), Keith Benson and Charles Collins (on drums), and Dennis Harris on guitar. I think Bobby Eli stuck around here and there. They dropped the vibes and added synths, and their sound was progressive in many respects. And they didn't sign young and up and coming artists, just stuck to the old guard, which is fine by me.

Here are some great grooves that PIR and the sub labels (eg. TSOP) put out.











Disco Funk

[Disco Funk]

A few more:











Disco Funk

[remicks]

........... And they didn't sign young and up and coming artists, just stuck to the old guard, which is fine by me.

Disco Funk

It's amazing that you are bringing that up , because I started to myself, but then I thought it didn't relate to the topic , but it must somehow - because you are mentioning it too.

Isn't it strange - during that 70's decade, Philadelphia International so quickly rose to the top , making household names out of many in their roster of acts , but by 1975 and beyond ....they did not bring into their fold any young acts that they were able to groom into stardom. I thought new talent development was a pretty basic part of operating a record label. I think its interesting it wasn't accomplished at PIR and also DF that you say that that was fine with you ... why is that ?? [just-curious face]

____________

still loving this song .........it's rather campy good fun

"I looked in my closet and it was bare
I opened up the door I swear there was no loving there ....where'd you take it!!??"


{& no comment on his looking in the closet for his lovin'}

*****

[SandraDee]

I know that all the musicians, arrangers, engineers etc. at PIR were special talented people (that's what made the music so good) but for me, the real star of post '75 PIR was Dexter Wansell - such an inventive, creative person. Whenever I hear a late 70s/early 80s PIR LP I nearly always find that my fave tracks are the ones written, arranged or produced by him (or co-written). The moods he created were quite unique & transport me to a fantasy land every time!

[Disco Funk]

I thought new talent development was a pretty basic part of operating a record label. I think its interesting it wasn't accomplished at PIR and also DF that you say that that was fine with you ... why is that ?? [just-curious face]

I guess you could say the sound was sophisticated, and having a veteran providing the vocals was much easier, especially if you had worked with them in previous years (e.g. Jerry Butler, who Gamble & Huff had worked with in the 1960s). Plus, there were plenty of other labels on the scene and in the area that were nurturing young talent, so PIR's niche was to keep with the slicker, accessible sound.

Disco Funk

[remicks]

I guess you could say the sound was sophisticated, and having a veteran providing the vocals was much easier, especially if you had worked with them in previous years (e.g. Jerry Butler, who Gamble & Huff had worked with in the 1960s). Plus, there were plenty of other labels on the scene and in the area that were nurturing young talent, so PIR's niche was to keep with the slicker, accessible sound.

Disco Funk

I think that's a reasonable way to look at it.

thanks for your reply!

remicks

*****

[Disco Funk]

I can't read their minds, but I figure that's probably where their heads were at.

Disco Funk