Sampling

**efunk_adelic** · June 21st, 2003, 01:41 AM

I was on my way home listening to the popular dance station. Along comes The Glow Of Love by CHANGE.

Janet Jackson put out a sampler and got a big hit with All For You... It's amazing how technology can boost the bass, add a little this & that, and you can enjoy the song all over again. If a sampling is done right, I'm all for it.

Hits like: Rappin' 4-Tay's - I'll Be Around
sounded good crusin' down the road

Father MC's - I'll Do For U (sampling Cheryl Lynn's Got To Be Real) also sounded good to my ears.

Are you pro or against any type of sampling, or think everyone should have their own original stuff?

**K-Bee** · June 21st, 2003, 06:17 AM

I'm definetely into the use of samples but i'm not into ripping off other peoples work and calling it your own.
I also hate it when people all start using the same sample at the same time. Remember all the tracks with Clyde Stubblefield's "Funky Drummer" beat that came out in the late 80s? That sort of thing really bugs me. It may works the first time you hear it but after the 30th, you're about th throw out the stereo and never listen to music again.

sampling has to be done carefully and should be used moderatly as well.

there's quite a few examples of good sampling:

DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh prince's use of Kool & The Gangs "Summer Madness" in their "Summertime". They took the chords from it and created a totally different track, but yet keeping the summer like vibe of the original

Father MC's use of Luther's "Never Too Much" on "Treat Me Right" was cool too. (if a bit obvious - he was definetely not the first one to do so)

I'm sure there are many more but these were just at the top of my head.

**vodkatonique** · June 21st, 2003, 07:30 AM

I'm into deconstruction & reconstruction. So yes i'm heavy into samples. The more deconstructed the better. Nick Holder's work is fantastic, 4x4 & sometimes filtered. Repetition gets me high (it's a tribal trick), so obviously gimme a disco loops and I'm happy. I too find the overall absence of recognition to the original track a bit disrespecful though. I'd recommend Nick 1st two lps ("One night in the disco" & "Still on track") to any loop addicts. So far, I could recognize Carol Douglas, Sister Sledge, Bumblebee Unlimited, Sylvester & Chilly. Recognizing the sample is also part of the post-modern game that's house music. It's a game, really. Dance and smile. Don't take it too seriously. :D House music has actually introduced most of my friends to pure disco.

**NickNack** · June 21st, 2003, 03:47 PM

In MOST cases, not ALL, I find it lazy, unimaginative and down right 'cheap'. "I can't write my own hit --- I'll steal someone elses and call it something else!" Geez, how much thought did that take.

I mean, Alcazar and the like sound great, but I always wonder what would they sound like with an "original" piece of music. I think the last sampled song I truly liked was Anastacia's "Don'tcha Wanna" where she used Stevie Wonder's, "I Believe (When I Fall In Love It Will Be Forever). You didn't have to scratch your head and think, 'what is that song?': All credits were in plain view.

**discosavvy** · June 22nd, 2003, 12:03 AM

Isn't Alcazar's recent song "The Last Days of Disco" an original composition? It didn't seem like a sampling of previous songs, unlike their other tracks on their 2 albums. I think the sampling is starting to get overdone by these various groups. Some sampling is OK but not a whole album based on sampling. Wackside's album seems to be heavily based on samples also, just like Alcazar.

**shockadelica** · June 22nd, 2003, 01:19 AM

There's definitely some good sampling out there, and I actually find discovering what has been sampled quite fascinating!

**Outsider** · June 22nd, 2003, 02:57 AM

I hate sampling. The end. :evil:

**Leatherman** · June 23rd, 2003, 09:20 AM

Originally Written by Outsider

I hate sampling. The end. :evil:

What a silly attitude!

**efunk_adelic** · June 23rd, 2003, 11:58 AM

Originally Written by Outsider

I hate sampling. The end. :evil:

Outsider, didn't you think She's Crafty by Beastie Boys was cool with the Led Zeppelin riff?

**vodkatonique** · June 23rd, 2003, 12:22 PM

I suspect it will not generate a lot of enthusiasm, but maybe forum members would be interested in collaborating in a board that would list house or hip-hop or pop tracks that sample disco / funk tracks, with the references of each.
Sort of like :
Antoine Clamaran "House EFX" = The Trammps "Disco Inferno" or the other way around
Double Exposure "Everyman" = Antoine Clamaran "Fizzy Fonk", Milk & Sugar "If You Wanna", DJ Sneak "Reachin'" or
Meat Men "Music Takes You High" = Johnny Mathis "Gone Gone Gone" + Freddie James "Get Up & Boogie" ?
Everybody would be free to add his own contribution. I know it's a bit endless, but it could be a start. Anybody ?

**Outsider** · June 23rd, 2003, 06:54 PM

Originally Written by efunk_adelic

Outsider, didn't you think She's Crafty by Beastie Boys was cool with the Led Zeppelin riff?

I've never heard that song, but I guess it can't be worse than that Puff Daddy song with the Led Zeppelin riff.

Be the way, my attitude towards sampling isn't silly, just straightforward. It's the same as my opinion of rap. :evil:

**QUINNY** · June 24th, 2003, 02:41 AM

Originally Written by vodkatonique

I suspect it will not generate a lot of enthusiasm, but maybe forum members would be interested in collaborating in a board that would list house or hip-hop or pop tracks that sample disco / funk tracks, with the references of each.

Such an internet site already exists and yes it would be never ending and a bitch to keep the cross referencing up together, wouldn't it?.

**K-Bee** · June 24th, 2003, 02:46 AM

Wonder if we're thinking about the same site Quinny

The place I know is http://www.the-breaks.com/
apparantly a one-man project, the sample info around there is really something. As close to the ultimate sampling reference site as we're likely to get.

**Jimmy-Michaels** · June 24th, 2003, 03:00 AM

Im totaly agenst sampling (aka rippin off), this is one of the many reasons music has gone so downhill since the dawn of the 90's. I mean look at it in all honesty, people created hard work and great art and then years later some no talent idiots go and basicly steal it in some way because they simply have no talent at all and have to rip the hard work of other great artists and in most cases, ruin their work by either taking 2 second loops and making it sound like a broken record with the same ol same ol effects and keyboard generated bass drum sound (today's common mainstream house) or taking something and looping a section of someone's hard work and putting that same god damn hip hop ridiculous beat over it and either singing new lyrics over it or rapping volgar violent or racest bullshit over it (rap/hip hop..which basicly describes alll the "popular" music..if you wanna call it it music..of today). This is my personal oppinion, I know there are some who will 100% see where im coming from and others that won't. I just know I can remember back in the early 90's when there was MC Hammer rippin off Rick James, Prince and George Clinton and Vanilla "the homeboy wanna be" Ice rippin off Queen & Bowie. Then in recent times, great works of people like Jaques Fred Peturs (RIP) being ripped off..makes me fuckin' sick :evil: . Anyhow, this is my oppinion on it all :)

DJ Jimmy M

**Voyage** · June 24th, 2003, 09:56 AM

I think sampling is something that is done when there is zero creativity and talent. Those who sample have two choices: either wreck and kill the song virtually or make a good sample but not as good as the original track.

To be honest I do like sampling when it's done well and it is originally from a song I like. I don't like sampling when they make the song sound horrible or the lyrics are annoying.

Sadly most part of my generation doesn't know the great music from the past and only know the rap/hip hop stuff. When they listen to a song that's disco or hi nrg sampled or remixed they think it's NEW when it's really not.

I recall once listening last year Megatron Man played at the Club and they all though Paul Oakenfold or Dj Dero had done it LOL :roll:

Some sample songs I like are: "Crying At The Discotheque" and "Lady Hear Me Tonight".

Voyage :P

**Outsider** · June 24th, 2003, 10:46 AM

Originally Written by Voyage

I think sampling is something that is done when there is zero creativity and talent.

That's why I'm against it.

:evil:

**Funkatronik** · June 24th, 2003, 01:09 PM

So, what exactly is the difference between, say, using common musical phrases or creating disco music out of jazz standards or classical songs and sampling? Where's the essential difference between Meco's Star Wars and a house track that samples that, from a creativity point of view?

**Jimmy-Michaels** · June 24th, 2003, 01:57 PM

MESSED UP POST SEE NEXT POST FOR REPLY

**Jimmy-Michaels** · June 24th, 2003, 02:00 PM

So, what exactly is the difference between, say, using common musical phrases or creating disco music out of jazz standards or classical songs and sampling? Where's the essential difference between Meco's Star Wars and a house track that samples that, from a creativity point of view?

There is a huuuuuuuuuuge difference. Meco calling in a huge orchestra and production team and literally reworking, rearranging and rerecording the original classical "Star Wars" film score id say takes a hell of alot of creativity and talent. I mean it wasn't as easy as "lets play the star wars soundtrack and slam a 4/4 beat over it" lol. There is a huuuuge difference in remakes of a song from one form of music and changing it to another in a cover tune type thing. Sampling is nothing more than playing the record of someone else's work and throwing it into a sampler and keeping the same beat, just making it sound like **** by turning it into repettive noise or just throwing new lyrics over it and calling it their own. Can't belive that question of comparing was even asked :D

DJ Jimmy M

**markydefad** · June 24th, 2003, 02:04 PM

I agree with Voyage's take on the sampling issue.

Sometimes (rarely) I find myself liking sampled stuff--"Crying At The Discotheque" being a prime example. I sorta think the lyrics to the Alcazar are better than the "Spacer" original. (Especially like the line..."He wore a tie like Richard Gere"--soooo referential to the fashionable "American Gigolo").

What's disappointing is that "Sampling" has replaced the creative act of writing new musical hooks. Now, any cretin in their bedroom can rape and pillage what was created in the past and "voila!!!" a new record from a non-musician emerges. I miss the brilliant musicianship that a Holland-Dozier-Holland or a Gamble-Huff team of MUSICIANS employed to create NEW MUSIC.

A "cover" of an old song is just that---a new version of an old hit. Like it or not, it's writers are credited and it's a chance for a new generation to catch up on it. Deconstructing and removing snippets of old hits to provide "hooks" for your bedroom record is thievery.

If you're a musician, write some new music. If you're a "sampler", steal from those who knew how to write music.

Sometimes it's clever and well-done, but used as a regular device, it's criminally lame and BORING!!!!! :evil:

Can I get a tissue to wipe the spittle off my chin? :roll:

**Voyage** · June 24th, 2003, 02:11 PM

Thanks Marky :P And I forgot to mention something here, it's not exactly sampling, but since we're talking about turning "old" masterpieces into "new" stuff lol what do you think about those remixes that are done to some songs.

Like those techno house sounding remixes? I've heard once a techno remix of "Your Love" and trust me it's horrible :evil: I love the original version and will always after what I heard. They killed the song :roll:

And they also do "sampling"/"parody" on music videos now. Anyone saw J Lo's lol :evil: :lol: :P :roll: video for "I'm Glad" she tried to redo lots of scenes from Flashdance.

What's going on the world today :cry:

Voyage :P

**Jimmy-Michaels** · June 24th, 2003, 02:16 PM

[quote]What's going on the world today[quote]

Well..it's all geared twards today's very low mentality generation, it is good to see that there still may be hope for today's generation as there are still a few young ones around with brains..like my good ol buddy Voyage :P. Since you talked about updated remixes, I think they all suck and destroy a track, sometimes its almost as bad as sampling in a way.

DJ Jimmy M

**markydefad** · June 24th, 2003, 02:18 PM

Originally Written by Voyage

What's going on the world today :cry:

Voyage :P

Voyage,

Bottom line, we're getting older and fighting to stay in the game. We've become our parents lamenting the demise of the Big Band sound and railing against rock n' roll, I guess.

I suppose every generation goes through this---feeling like "our music" is being denigrated by the schlockmeisters of the present.

I say, "RAIL ON"--"Keep fighting for good music!!!" :P

(Rail= to complain bitterly or abusively) :evil:

**Voyage** · June 24th, 2003, 02:21 PM

Thanks lol I wonder when will the rap/hip hop craze will come to an end. Yeah and u're too part of the younger...well not very young...generation

Voyage :P

**markydefad** · June 24th, 2003, 02:36 PM

Voyage,

I started a thread once called "Why was there never a backlash against Hip-hop/Rap???"

It's always seemed like a "new sound" replaced the old one every few years. We've been stuck in this Hip-Hop and Trance Dance crap for soooooooooooooooooooooo long now. I fear it's because musicians are no longer the main purveyors of music--it's knob-turners and computer geeks.
That the kidz dance to this crap is the sad thing. As Boy George said a few years back,"the drugs must be f*cking incredible to dance to this **** all night long."

I'm waiting patiently for a new era. I will survive. :P