Salsoul Records Got Short Changed : Never Became A Mega Label.

[remicks]

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In a recent thread about Charo .....Marky made a comment that got me to thinking.....

To paraphrase, he felt it was a mistake for the Salsoul Orchestra to get behind someone like Charo because the net result was that it cheapened their sound.


I think that's a good point.

On the one hand, one could argue that disco was always meant to be a music promoting fun and good times and so how appropriate to feature someone whose public persona was exactly about that. Cuchi cuchi !!

On the other .... here was this rich, lush, sophisticated sound created by a full orchestra being accompanied by mediocre/gimmicky vocals . Hard to get respect that way .

So one has to wonder , the songs that Salsoul did with Charo ...how much more success would they have had if they had been performed by someone more "legit"??
Of all the known-name performers at the time ... singers looking for a job !!! .... was it a good move for Salsoul to choose Charo as their one known name to get behind??


When I think of Salsoul Records ....there were so many wonderful tunes they gifted us with (thank you Salsoul & Vince Montana!!!!!!!!!!) ...
It must have been most frustrating for them to watch other labels like Casablanca and RSO soar .
& like Casablanca .....wouldn't it be great if someone would tell the inside Salsoul story.... how it functioned.

Why, for example, in the first place did it have no association with Philadelphia International or Gamble & Huff or their parent label ...Columbia??? That right there would have set them up with the proper promotional machinery it takes to move product.

Why was it created as a distinct & separate entity??? Was that a decision arrived at from Salsoul's side .... or from PI ???
(Clearly Salsoul Records' intent was to focus on the booming disco trend and I've alway wondered....did G&H have reservations about going that disco?? Why did they let their in-house musicians slip away??)

It's too bad that none of Salsoul's earlier songs really crossed over big ... SPRING RAIN for example , with none making it onto mainstream radio the way Casablanca's songs did .... most of the world was denied ever knowing songs like 10% and A NIGHT TO REMEMBER .....etc. etc. etc.

And of course I don't mean to lay Salsoul's struggles directly at the feet of Charo .
I personally love the way they got behind her with such gusto .... beautiful glossy well-crafted album designs and the alluring pink vinyl pressings ....It certainly wasn't for lack of trying. Maybe they shouldn't have put all their eggs into just one celebrity's basket . That was perhaps an early move that didn't advance them well.

I guess they just didn't have the muscle - the mechanisms in place to adequately work their releases. By the time radio was aggressively pursuing the disco sound and some of their songs started to cross like I GOT MY MIND MADE UP, CALL ME .....Salsoul's whole purpose in being .... disco .... began winding down.







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[SandraDee]

But if you listen to those 'cool' disco fans (you know those 35 year old journalists who made out they were at Paradise Garage every week & never set foot in the place!:icon_twisted:) Salsoul is THE coolest, hippest disco label ever, whereas they would dismiss Casablanca for being too commercial. Certainly in the UK, Salsoul is uber-cool & in the long-term, with regards to reputation in the arts/entertainment, that seems to be more important than how much money a company made.

[SandraDee]

By the time radio was aggressively pursuing the disco sound and some songs started to cross like I GOT MY MIND MADE UP, CALL ME .....Salsoul's whole purpose in being .... disco .... began winding down.









*****

Salsoul, along with Prelude & Sam, didn't give up on dance music in '79 just because disco was no longer considered economically viable. Up until the mid-late 80s they carried on giving DJs the goods rather than selling out & releasing rock music. I will always respect Salsoul, Sam & Prelude for that.

[kdavid13]

You raise some valid points...I just assumed that since the label was such a revered disco label - that some of their biggest hits must have crossed over and become huge pop hits in the process.

I guess Salsoul was always seen as a "disco" label - and no amount of first rate soul singing could change that.How could anything sung by Loleatta and Rochelle (among others) not become a #1 pop/soul hit ?? :icon_question:

Some Salsoul releases did puzzle me throughout the years...Salsoul Orchestra delivering tepid versions of the Saturday Night Fever tracks ?? Quebec radio personality/class clown Paul Vincent's Super Elton ?? (which worked as an instrumental thanks to Dominic Sciscente's presence),Charo covering the Stones' Let's spend the night together and putting it on an album right next to Speedy Gonzalez or Cookie Jar ???

Gamble & Huff and Philadelphia International catered to the soul crowd and they freely flirted with the disco sound but it was just one side of their overall signature sound.

I was just reading the liner notes from the Loleatta Holloway compilation on Suss'd ; and it mentions how the Love Sensation album was filled with ballads in the hopes of crossing over to the soul ballad market.The dance crowd would make the album a success but then,as a bonus,get to discover the soulful slow side of Ms.Holloway.

I sure wish a book was written about Salsoul Records - still one of my all-time favorite labels from the era.

[remicks]

But if you listen to those 'cool' disco fans (you know those 35 year old journalists who made out they were at Paradise Garage every week & never set foot in the place!:icon_twisted:) Salsoul is THE coolest, hippest disco label ever, whereas they would dismiss Casablanca for being too commercial. Certainly in the UK, Salsoul is uber-cool & in the long-term, with regards to reputation in the arts/entertainment, that seems to be more important than how much money a company made.

Good input Dee!!

You know I've never understood the begrudging by some ( the coolest and the hippest ) of a record , a label , a group ... for becoming commercial (iow successful) . There's usually a good reason a record sounds good to a lot of people.

It was the goal for everyone involved to make it .... big .
Even uber-cool Salsoul Records pressed endless releases on both commercial and on radio targeted 45s. They didn't do so as souvenirs. :icon_razz:


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[SandraDee]

I'm in complete agreement with you here remmy. I've often got annoyed with the music business and other areas of the entertainment world when success becomes symonymous with losing credibility (OK, there are certain examples where acts deteriorate after success, but one doesn't usually lead to the other). It's always been particularly the case here in the UK - Brits hate success! In the 80s Stock/Aitken/Waterman was easily the most commercially successful music producing team, but year after year they got snubbed by the award-giving community here & came in for much ridicule from people in the 'arts'. It's a topsy-turvy world we live in for sure.:icon_confused:

[Disco Funk]

I'm glad Salsoul didn't get too big. Bigger isn't always better!

They, along with AVI, were churning out great dance hits, and I think they kept a lot of their artistic integrity by not pandering to the pop music crowd.

But I have to say one thing: I find the late 70s Salsoul 12 inches are not as collectible as the mid 70s stuff. By Salsoul, I'm referring to the main label, not Gold Mind or the other sub labels.

By the late 70s, they were putting non-Philly recordings on the main label. Most of it seemed to be imported by other producers from either Europe or other parts of the US. They weren't direct productions of people working for the Cayre brothers from what I can tell, unlike the stuff produced by Vince Montana, Norman Harris, etc...

I think a testament to their longevity, they were still in operation into the 80s, and I think legally, Salsoul still exists today. I don't believe they ever went bankrupt or dissolved, unlike Casablanca.

Disco Funk

[remicks]

They, along with AVI, were churning out great dance hits, and I think they kept a lot of their artistic integrity by not pandering to the pop music crowd.

Disco Funk

This to me is a lot of gobbly gook!!!




(and as you know DF ........ Like Salsoul, AVI also issued plenty of "for radio play" promo 45s )

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[Disco Funk]

I suppose. Then again, every label probably was hoping to get something onto the radio to appeal to a mass audience, otherwise where else would the money be coming from? They didn't get a whole lot of money from the promo copies they doled out to the DJs, did they?

Disco Funk

[markydefad]

Salsoul did have a very hard time crossing their dance hits over to the radio.
I knew that many huge club records never got to Pop radio--but I always assumed they were hits on the Soul/R&B charts. I was most surprised when I first perused the Joel Whitburn Top R&B Singles book.

Some examples:

THE BOTTLE (La Botella) - Joe Bataan (Pop: #102/ R&B: #59)
TEN PERCENT - Double Exposure (Pop: #54/ R&B: #63)
MY LOVE IS FREE - Double Exposure (Pop: #104/R&B: #44)
DREAMIN' - Loleatta Holloway (Pop: #72/ R&B: --_
HIT AND RUN - Loleatta Holloway (Pop: --/R&B: #56)
RUN AWAY - Salsoul Orchestra featuring Loleatta Holloway (Pop: --/R&B: #84)
THIS WILL BE A NIGHT TO REMEMBER- Eddie Holman (Pop: #90/R&B: #25)
DOCTOR LOVE - First Choice (Pop: #41/R&B: #23)
HOLD YOUR HORSES - First Choice (Pop: --/R&B: #73)
HOW HIGH - The Salsoul Orchestra featuring Cognac (Pop: #105/R&B: #66)
THE BEAT GOES ON - Ripple (Pop: --/R&B: #91)
CHECKING YOU OUT - Aurra (Pop:--/R&B: #64)


No mention of "Love Sensation," "Magic Bird Of Fire,""Let No Man Put Asunder," "Love Thang," "Moment Of My Life"...etc. :icon_confused:

[Salsoul1975]

Salsoul did have a very hard time crossing their dance hits over to the radio.
I knew that many huge club records never got to Pop radio--but I always assumed they were hits on the Soul/R&B charts. I was most surprised when I first perused the Joel Whitburn Top R&B Singles book.

Some examples:

THE BOTTLE (La Botella) - Joe Bataan (Pop: #102/ R&B: #59)
TEN PERCENT - Double Exposure (Pop: #54/ R&B: #63)
MY LOVE IS FREE - Double Exposure (Pop: #104/R&B: #44)
DREAMIN' - Loleatta Holloway (Pop: #72/ R&B: --_
HIT AND RUN - Loleatta Holloway (Pop: --/R&B: #56)
RUN AWAY - Salsoul Orchestra featuring Loleatta Holloway (Pop: --/R&B: #84)
THIS WILL BE A NIGHT TO REMEMBER- Eddie Holman (Pop: #90/R&B: #25)
DOCTOR LOVE - First Choice (Pop: #41/R&B: #23)
HOLD YOUR HORSES - First Choice (Pop: --/R&B: #73)
HOW HIGH - The Salsoul Orchestra featuring Cognac (Pop: #105/R&B: #66)
THE BEAT GOES ON - Ripple (Pop: --/R&B: #91)
CHECKING YOU OUT - Aurra (Pop:--/R&B: #64)


No mention of "Love Sensation," "Magic Bird Of Fire,""Let No Man Put Asunder," "Love Thang," "Moment Of My Life"...etc. :icon_confused:

On The Billboard Pop charts, the Salsoul Orchestra's "Tangerine" and "Nice 'N Naasty" reached #14 and #30, respectively. Instant Funk's "I Got My Mind Made Up" reached #1 Soul/#20 Pop, Skyy's "Call Me" reached #1 Soul/#26 Pop, Loleatta Holloway's "Worn Out Broken Heart" (from 1976) reached #25 on the Soul chart.

[totouk]

I can see that at the time Salsoul didn't seem to make it that high but looking at what is available now remastered, remixed, repackaged in so many different forms Salsoul are way out there in comparison to Casablanca IMO. I have an Anthology of Loleatta and Inner Life from the UK, there is also Salsoul Orchestra available and I am sure there are others yet unless it is Donna Summer, what can you get on Casablanca (other than The Story). Look how excited we are about the Pattie Brooks CD about to drop.

The New York sound that Salsoul was supposed to typify seems to have grown way beyond its original success, whether that is the quality of the recordings, the experimentation with mixes or current hype, I don't know, I know that I would never have heard half of what came out if it wasn't for the re-issues (at least half the tracks on Mixed With Love by Walter Gibbons I have never heard of) and for that I am grateful.

toto

[qdearl]

Salsoul did have a very hard time crossing their dance hits over to the radio.
I knew that many huge club records never got to Pop radio--but I always assumed they were hits on the Soul/R&B charts. I was most surprised when I first perused the Joel Whitburn Top R&B Singles book.

Some examples:

THE BOTTLE (La Botella) - Joe Bataan (Pop: #102/ R&B: #59)
TEN PERCENT - Double Exposure (Pop: #54/ R&B: #63)
MY LOVE IS FREE - Double Exposure (Pop: #104/R&B: #44)
DREAMIN' - Loleatta Holloway (Pop: #72/ R&B: --_
HIT AND RUN - Loleatta Holloway (Pop: --/R&B: #56)
RUN AWAY - Salsoul Orchestra featuring Loleatta Holloway (Pop: --/R&B: #84)
THIS WILL BE A NIGHT TO REMEMBER- Eddie Holman (Pop: #90/R&B: #25)
DOCTOR LOVE - First Choice (Pop: #41/R&B: #23)
HOLD YOUR HORSES - First Choice (Pop: --/R&B: #73)
HOW HIGH - The Salsoul Orchestra featuring Cognac (Pop: #105/R&B: #66)
THE BEAT GOES ON - Ripple (Pop: --/R&B: #91)
CHECKING YOU OUT - Aurra (Pop:--/R&B: #64)


No mention of "Love Sensation," "Magic Bird Of Fire,""Let No Man Put Asunder," "Love Thang," "Moment Of My Life"...etc. :icon_confused:

You can't argue with the facts, lol That being said, as accurate as some charts may be, they don't always mirror all of the general public, everywhere.
Just about every song Marky has on this list, I'm sure had repeated radio play consistently (in my area) during the time it was out, because I remember hearing them, I wasn't old enough to be in the clubs, so where else could I possibly be hearing these awesome compositions, (that sony walkman, was way out of my budget back then, lol) I think record and usage computing techniques from 30+ years ago may not have been as infallible as some recall
not to mention, how we (USA) are notorious for not appreciating what in front of us until it's not in front of us:icon_lol: But the rest of the world saw what some didn't and kept the music alive, great music is great music whether you see it or not...."Cream always rises to the top":icon_cool:

[markydefad]

The Salsoul catalog has held up incredibly well. Maybe the fact that many of their tunes weren't overplayed on radio makes them more special today?

They have such a deeeeeeep catalog of excellent tunes--many of which I never heard back in the day that I have bought at least a dozen Salsoul compilations and rarely found any duds on them. If Salsoul records had the repeated radio exposure of a "Ring My Bell"--maybe they wouldn't sound like fresh, undiscovered treasures today?? :icon_eek::icon_question::icon_idea:

Just a speculation. But the label really did excellent work.

[remicks]

The New York sound that Salsoul was supposed to typify............

toto

It's interesting that Salsoul's sound has that New York City / Latin identity ....when it really wasn't either . Although the label was based in NYC, the musicians were from Philadelphia and neither Vince Montana nor the Cayre Brothers were Latin .

Were any members of the Salsoul Orchestra Latin???:icon_confused:

Maybe that's why Charo was specifically sought out ...to bolster the label's Latin credentials ....

When Bernie visited Vince Montana they didn't get into a discussion about Charo except there's a mention that Vince didn't create DANCE A LITTLE BIT CLOSER with her in mind , it originally was part of the three song package he first presented to the Cayre Bros. ( I wonder why it wasn't on the Salsoul Orchestra's first album?)

Vincent Montana recalls that he wasn't sure how the Salsoul concept would fly. He worked on the three songs he was contracted to do which were titled Salsoul Hustle, Nice Vibes and Dance A Little Closer (the last would be used on the Salsoul album with Charo).VINCENT MONTANA INTERVIEW

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[Disco Funk]

The label actually did distribute latin music. I once did a search for all of their Salsoul LPs available, and there were a number of titles that came up that were not disco. I don't know specifically what type of latin music was distributed, but it definitely wasn't a disco fusion as far as I could tell. One name that pops up is Alfredo Chocolate Armenteros, and he had an LP called 'En El Rincon' distributed through Salsoul in '76.

Disco Funk

[Bernie]

Caytronics, the parent label of Salsoul Records was a very big Latin music label during the 1970s. Being Puerto Rican, the red Caytronics label were a staple in my Mom's record collection. She still has many of them so perhaps one day I'll scan one and post it.

The label actually did distribute latin music. I once did a search for all of their Salsoul LPs available, and there were a number of titles that came up that were not disco. I don't know specifically what type of latin music was distributed, but it definitely wasn't a disco fusion as far as I could tell. One name that pops up is Alfredo Chocolate Armenteros, and he had an LP called 'En El Rincon' distributed through Salsoul in '76.

Disco Funk

[Disco Funk]

Caytronics, the parent label of Salsoul Records was a very big Latin music label during the 1970s. Being Puerto Rican, the red Caytronics label were a staple in my Mom's record collection. She still has many of them so perhaps one day I'll scan one and post it.

Very interesting, Bernie! I always assumed that Salsoul was the parent label, and the Cayre brothers started that one from scratch.

Do you recall if any of the Caytronics records yielded a disco dance number or two worth seeking out? Or was it very strictly latin music only?

Disco Funk

[Bernie]

Yup Caytronics was the parent label. While I do not recall anything Disco on that label one can never tell.