Old School Rap = Disco?

[Disco Funk]

I think a lot of music fans are familiar with the beginnings of old school rap. At least, the first few big tracks featured rapped vocals over re-made versions of previous disco or funk hits, like Rapper's Delight by Sugarhill Gang was a remake of Chic's Good Times.

What about the other rapped vocal tracks that are based around original compositions that are disco in nature? Even though they don't feature singing vocals (neither did instrumentals!), would you guys consider them relevant in a disco set?

Here are a few examples I'm getting at









So what's the verdict? Are these examples of 'Disco Rap', along the lines of other sub-genres of disco like Disco Reggae and Jazz Disco?

Disco Funk

[DJRAZ]

Not quite. Back then when Rap was first starting out it was based off of old Disco/R&B records where the beat was slower. Rap is a spin-off to Disco. Let's keep it there. But if you want to capture the time those songs are closer to the early 1980's and that was at the tail end of disco when the speed was slowing down.

[Disco Funk]

Let's say that all you heard were the instrumental tracks. No rapped vocals. Would they still work as disco tracks, albeit early 80s disco?

From what I've read, rap had two camps - some MCs rapped over funk or rock breaks, while others rapped over disco breaks. Eventually the disco got filtered out, although one could argue that Hip House was the outcome of rap and disco evolving into rap and house. Here's an example:



Disco Funk

[Old Disco DeeJay]

I think a lot of music fans are familiar with the beginnings of old school rap. At least, the first few big tracks featured rapped vocals over re-made versions of previous disco or funk hits, like Rapper's Delight by Sugarhill Gang was a remake of Chic's Good Times.

What about the other rapped vocal tracks that are based around original compositions that are disco in nature? Even though they don't feature singing vocals (neither did instrumentals!), would you guys consider them relevant in a disco set?

So what's the verdict? Are these examples of 'Disco Rap', along the lines of other sub-genres of disco like Disco Reggae and Jazz Disco?

Disco Funk

Good question Disco Funk.

Early Rap certainly had it's origins in Disco, but now, 30 years later, has evolved into Hip Hop and is a million miles away from the Classic Tracks of Disco.

I know that you mentioned Sugarhill Gang's Rappers Delight using Chic's Good Times for a backing track, but the other early Disco/Rap track that I remember playing was Rhythm Talk by Jocko, which used McFadden & Whitehead's Ain't No Stoppin' Us Now, as the backing track.

YouTube - Jocko - Rhythm talk

Just to back up your theory..... I have 8 Disco Music Sub-Genre's filtered into my Windows Media Player and MP3 Player, for ease of reference. Some examples are:

CLASSIC DISCO: Voyage - Souvenirs
DISCO SOUL: Luther Vandross - Never Too Much
DISCO JAZZ - The Crusaders - Street Life
DISCO FUNK - Tom Browne - Funkin' For Jamaica
ELECTRO DISCO - Giorgio Moroder - The Chase
DISCO REGGAE - Third World - Now That We've Found Love
DISCO RAP - Sugarhill Gang - Rappers Delight
DISCO MEGAMIX - Old Night At Studio 54 - Various Artists

So, on my planet, Disco Rap is perfectly acceptible. I've been catagorizing music using that sub-genre for years.

PS. Apologies to anyone who disagrees with my classification of any of the above examples, it's just my personal opinion, which sub-genre a particular song falls into, for ease of reference and whatever mood takes me, on a particular day.

[drh]

Hi Old School Dee Jay, thanks very much for your great presentation of good examples for Disco-Rap. AND THANK SO MUCH for solving a 29 year old mystery. In was in 1980: my first holiday away from Germany in the south. It was in Antibes at the Cote d'Azur, there was a disco callled "Voom Voom" and they played this "Aint no stopping"-version with the guy calling "Jacko Jacko", I've been singing along this short piece for years and years and always thought it was a remix of Mc Fadden & Whitehead. Now I know it's not "Jacko" but Jocko. I nearly freaked out on this tune with my 16 years way back then - this one time I heard it.
Today I must say though that the rapping is a little "thin soup" but the call "Jocko Jocko" with the original arrangement of "Ain't" in the background is still gripping me. Thanks so much for the discovery and greets to Scotland!!:icon_biggrin::icon_razz::icon_cool:

[Disco Funk]

I think Rhythm Talk was one of the few times that the rap version used the same backing track as the original. It was produced and released through Philadelphia International, McFadden and Whitehead's label. Other examples include Sweet G's 'Heartbeat Rap', which layered rap vocals over Taana Gardner's 'Heartbeat', and K9 is 'Dog Talk' which used Clinton's 'Atomic Dog' backing track.

Jocko did another cut for PIR that doesn't get mentioned. 'The Rocketship', is an original composition (i.e. it wasn't rapped vocals over a previously released track). The rapping occurs over jazzy sections, which I think was a legitimate form of jazz, kind of like scat vocals meets beat poetry, I guess. It's not on youtube, but it is on the CD of 12inch versions of PIR tracks that was released in the UK a number of years back (Edsel or Westside put it out, I think).

Disco Funk

[Old Disco DeeJay]

Hi Old School Dee Jay, thanks very much for your great presentation of good examples for Disco-Rap. AND THANK SO MUCH for solving a 29 year old mystery. In was in 1980: my first holiday away from Germany in the south. It was in Antibes at the Cote d'Azur, there was a disco callled "Voom Voom" and they played this "Aint no stopping"-version with the guy calling "Jacko Jacko", I've been singing along this short piece for years and years and always thought it was a remix of Mc Fadden & Whitehead. Now I know it's not "Jacko" but Jocko. I nearly freaked out on this tune with my 16 years way back then - this one time I heard it.
Today I must say though that the rapping is a little "thin soup" but the call "Jocko Jocko" with the original arrangement of "Ain't" in the background is still gripping me. Thanks so much for the discovery and greets to Scotland!!:icon_biggrin::icon_razz::icon_cool:

Hi DRH, Glad to have helped after all these years. I bet you had long since given up hope of identifying Jocko and Rhythm Talk. It's amazing how this site brings back memories of long forgotten tracks. It's also strange how your own musical tastes change over the years. I've dusted down a few tracks that have been mentioned on this site from 30 years ago, that I didn't particularly rate at the time, but just love now. e.g. Mystic Merlin - Just Can't Give You Up

Another couple of examples of Rap versions of Disco Songs that were HUGE hits in UK/Europe, but are maybe less known in the USA, Rest of the World are:

YouTube - MC Miker G. & DJ Sven - Celebration Rap

and

YouTube - MC Miker G & DJ Sven - Holiday Rap HQ Videoclip!!!

The only things that these 2 tracks prove are:
1. How easy it is to make money off the back of good Disco Songs and
2. How much white Europeans CANNOT Rap. LOL

[Disco Funk]

I wouldn't be too hard on MC Miker and DJ Sven. I don't think English was even their first language (or did they even speak it at all, or did they rap phonetically?). They were out there either before or around the same time as the Beastie Boys were cutting their first record, License To Ill, and I don't know of any notable white rappers who predated Beasties in the USA. Most were either black or hispanic.

Disco Funk

[Disco Funk]

Here's another great old schooler with a disco beat



Disco Funk

[Nano]

the thing is, there were many disco and rock artists who tried a hand at rapping. but they did in their own records and playing every instrument. with some of them I noticed this only many years later. some examples:

FRANKIE SMITH - Double Dutch-bus (1981)
MEL BROOKS - It's good to be the King (1982)
PINO D'ANGIO - Ma quale idea (1980)
VAUGHAN MASON - Rockin' big guitar (1981)
FALCO - Der Komissar (1983)
TOM TOM CLUB - Wordy rappinghood (1981)
WHODINI - Magic's wand (1983)

even the rappers who where doing stabs at "Good times", when they went to record, they played the rhythm track themselves to avoid being sued by the Atlantic label. that's what the Sugarhill Gang did. I remember also a track called "Boogie to the bop" by Mantus, who stole from Michael Jackson's "Don't stop til you get enough" but also re-recorded it with their own instruments.

I guess this makes a bit difficult to get what some rhythm tracks are mimicking. of course also some of them were probably original ideas.