The "real" disco music era

[racevedo]

Hello Everyone.
Maybe my comment wont be very popular, and it may have been dicussed too many times. I like disco music a lot, but the truly disco music period (regarding disco beat and rythm) only goes from late 1976 to 1981. There are still some songs in 82-83, but the splendor was the 77-79 period. I consider it to begin with Try Me-Donna Summer and to maybe finish with Ai no corrida-Quincy Jones.
In the list of 500 songs in the page there are many that I think are pre-disco (all the hustle songs.. Silver convention, Hues Corporation, Tavares, etc) and some post 70s that dont even belong to the disco category either, even though there were some rock groups that adopted a disco beat for some songs (Rod Stewart- Do you think Im sexy or Paul Mc Cartney Goodnight tonight)....any thoughts about this ?...

[MPS]

I agree a lot!

To me, real disco music is A LOT about the SOUND. And that means that a disco tune can NEVER contain synthesizer drums or bass (with some exceptions fo synth bass: EW&F "Let's Groove", with moog bass, and maybe some other moog bass tunes. Another exception is El Coco "Cocomotion", but in this case, one can hardly hear that it's synthesizer bass, since it sounds like a real bass. And obviously, at least it was not meant to sound like synth bass). And, I know this is provocative to many guys here, but I'm not that enthusiastic about the Donna Summer tunes with too much synths ("I Feel Love"). They sound more like some synth pop tunes, rather that real, ORGANIC disco. Though, many of her other tunes are real disco to me.

And for sure, the typical disco sound was mostly made before 1981-82.

[BrunoRepublic]

I agree a lot!

To me, real disco music is A LOT about the SOUND. And that means that a disco tune can NEVER contain synthesizer drums or bass

Drums for sure, since there were no serious drum machines until the 80s (the drums on "I Feel Love" were done with synthesizers).

However, synth bass was widely used during the disco era. The minimoog in particular, with it's deep, punchy sound, was behind a lot of disco songs. Disqualifying it excludes a lot of material. I think a key difference is that with most disco, synthesizers are just another instrument in the mix, as opposed to being the dominant sound. Also, on disco records the electronic instruments are still played by musicians, not run off a sequencer as they are on most contemporary productions.

And, I know this is provocative to many guys here, but I'm not that enthusiastic about the Donna Summer tunes with too much synths ("I Feel Love").

I have always argued that "I Feel Love" is not really disco, but a very early techno/trance track. I usually get shouted down on that one though. :-?

[MPS]

As I also said, there are exceptions to the "no synth bass-rule". But when I give it a second thought, you're right when saying it would exclude too many decent disco tunes.

And I think you might have summed it up quite nice with your definition: it comes down to whether the synthesizers are dominating the overall sound of the tune, or not dominating the sound. Maybe that's where the border goes between "real" disco and synth pop.

[NickNack]

Hello Everyone.
Maybe my comment wont be very popular, and it may have been dicussed too many times. I like disco music a lot, but the truly disco music period (regarding disco beat and rythm) only goes from late 1976 to 1981. There are still some songs in 82-83, but the splendor was the 77-79 period. I consider it to begin with Try Me-Donna Summer and to maybe finish with Ai no corrida-Quincy Jones.

I'm not going to enter the discussion as we've been here before. I'll read other's comments. But I have to mention that even Donna herself might have a problem with your "starting point". Her first hit was, of course, "Love to Love You Baby". This 16-minutes+ song could, for the longest time, only be heard in discotheques. The song was 'formatted' for club play. :)

[Marcio**]

I think that Silver Convention is disco, not pre-disco. Silver Convention has an interesting no break work (Madhouse), I think it's totally disco.

We can have a difference of opinion if some songs are disco or not. I'm thinking of George Benson "Give the Night" (#235 on the presente disco music top-500) and Idris Muhammad "Could Heaven Ever Be Like This''. Certainly it's funk-jazz.

[tehuti]

In the list of 500 songs in the page there are many that I think are pre-disco (all the hustle songs.. Silver convention, Hues Corporation, Tavares, etc)

Can't agree with you there. Sliver Convention, Hues Corporation and Tavares were as "disco" as it gets. Prior to disco being categorized (at least in NYC) you didn't hear music like that. If you're talking about in Europe or somewhere else outside the US that may be true though.

[racevedo]

Sorry to disagree, but the music I mentioned does not belong to the disco music category in my opinion. Silver Convention, Tavares (pre-SNF) and Hues Corporation have a slower beat than disco music, a different rythm. Dont know how old you are, but even the dance steps, the fashion, and the parties were different. Sure they were used to dance at parties and dance clubs, but the whole Disco phenomenon I think it began in the late 76s maybe with Donna Summer.

[Outsider]

But what about a song such as "The Hustle" (the Van McCoy hit), which I believe came out in 1975? That song is also as disco as a song can get. :evil:

[DiscoMan]

I was there so.......
I remember hearing a lot about Disco during the fall of '75.
Music, talk, etc. was coming out of NYC. The rock-n-roll clubs, where I lived, were beiginnining to make the change to DJs and records from show bands.

By late spring, early summer of '76 it was in "full swing",
having quickly arrived from NYC (3 hour drive away) to
where I lived which was central New England in the USA.
And the rest is history!

[Funky Dude]

The "Real" disco era depends on one's opinion. Though the books generally say 1973-1982 but it differs with individuals and their experiences or knowledge or what they "class" as disco music.

What I call disco, half of it goes under generally as funk. Here are some real early songs that are generally classed as funk/R&B but I call disco:
Kool & The Gang - Love The Life You Live 1971
Curtis Mayfield - Move On Up 1970
Curtis Mayfield - If There's Hell Below 1970
Curtis Mayfield - Beautiful Brother Of Mine 1971
Curtis Mayfield - Get Down 1971
Isaac Hayes - Theme From Shaft 1971
Isaac Hayes - Theme From The Men 1972
Edwin Starr - Time 1970
Steam - Na Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye 1969
Intruders - She's A Winner 1972
Bar-Kays - Son Of Shaft 1972
Well at least these songs are the forerunners of what is later known as disco.

Anyhow I certainly can't disregard 1973-1975 from the "Real" disco category especially with songs like:
Gloria Gaynor - Never Can Say Goodbye 1974
MFSB - TSOP 1973
Ultra High Frequency - We're On The Right Track 1973
Brass Construction - Movin' 1975
Harold Melvin & The Blue Notes - The Love I Lost 1973
Harold Melvin & The Blue Notes - Bad Luck 1975
The O'Jays - I Love Music 1975
Fatback Band - Spanish Hustle 1975
Don Downing - Dream World 1974
Temptations - Happy People 1974
Blackbyrds - Flying High 1975
Blackbyrds - Time Is Movin' 1975
Louis Ramirez - Salsa 1975
Deodato - Skyscrapers 1973
Salsoul Orchestra - Salsoul Hustle 1975
Salsoul Orchestra - Salsoul Rainbow 1975
First Choice - Armed & Extremely Dangerous 1973
Lyn Collins - Rock Me Again & Again X6 1974
Commodores - Superman 1974
etc............

Anyhow I guess I could say that disco music got more advanced in the late 70s with the more percussions eg "The Break" 1979 by Katmandu, electronica style eg "From Here To Eternity" 1977 by Giorgio Moroder etc......

Anyhow I guess I can say the real disco era was 1974-1980 because from 1974 onwards more and more disco records were getting released. Prior to 1974 there were more so soul and funk records being released but still quite a number of disco songs came out prior to 1974 which I mentioned above, well I call them disco anyway :D .

Anyhow that's my opinion on what is the "Real" disco era.

___________________________
Aussie Aussie Aussie!!! Oi Oi Oi!!!

[jazz_pilgrim]

I have managed to dig out on old copy of BLUES AND SOUL (Cheers Discodisk for that one!! :D ) from way back in October 1973 and, interestingly, the term disco sound was certainly in use then.

I quote from a couple of the singles reviews from that issue:

ISLEY BROS - Tell Me It's Just A Rumour Baby - "Perfect disco sound if you're not playing funk"

CHILITES - Stoned Out Of My Mind - "It's also commercial enough to get radio interest as well as being a perfect disco sound"

and finally ...

INCREDIBLE BONGO BAND - Bongo Rock - "It's certainly one of the best disco instrumentals of the year though I confess to personally being fed up with it, But if you're a DJ or want a good party record, this is guaranteed to have them all up and dancing"

So right back in 1973 it appears that there was a certain disco sound that was being picked up in the UK ...

This debate has come up many times before ... and I always say that my definition of disco music is simply: music that you dance to in a disco - whether it be on the mainstream side, jazz side, funk side or whatever - it's all DISCO MUSIC. Kind of obvious really! That's how it was back in the clubs I used to frequent around 1977 and onwards ...

[NickNack]

Sorry to disagree, but the music I mentioned does not belong to the disco music category in my opinion. Silver Convention, Tavares (pre-SNF) and Hues Corporation have a slower beat than disco music, a different rythm.

A slower beat? What, in your opinion, is too slow for disco? And, if you don't mind me asking, when did you first hit the club scene? It looks like "age" could be a factor in our thinking.

[DiscoMan]

Earliest Disco?
I can’t say anything about Europe of which I am totally ignorant.
But, I can talk somewhat about Disco as it related to Northeast Urban America.

Where I grew up it in Central Massachusetts we were very lucky to have excellent show bands and a great selection of Rock ‘n Roll clubs for our weekend entertainment. So music and Rock ‘n Roll was a very big part of our lives.

As the ‘70’s developed we had more and more choices of places to go.
Competition was fierce among the clubs and innovation to “keep “‘em comin’” was common. And we were blessed with excellent local talent.

My earliest memories of Disco styled music are from the summer of ‘73 (I was born in ‘52). SalSoul Orchestra from Philly was beginning to get a lot of air play up here, The group Tavares from New Bedford, Mass were already known locally as a “Disco Group” whatever “Disco“ was to some of us. The beat and style were totally new. It wasn’t Rock ’n Roll but something else. And we liked it!!!! And as I live 40 miles West of Boston things here changed rapidly. And we were also hearing rumors in our local rock ’n roll clubs of a Black girl from Boston who was making it big in Europe. ???. That Black girl from Boston was LaDonna Gaines.

I lived in these clubs during this period so…

As ‘73 transitioned into ‘74 early Disco music seemed to be everywhere on the radio. Throughout ;74 and into ‘75 Disco music became common around here and during the summer of ‘75 clubs began making the transition from live bands to Disco and DJs.

During the spring and summer of ‘75 I was dating a sweetheart who along with a younger sister were already experienced “Disco Queens” She taught me the Hustle that summer. By the spring of ‘76 it was the RAGE up here! And we had REAL DISCO CLUBS, facilities that had been designed and built for Disco only within a six-nine month period!

And twenty years after the “Last Days of Disco” young people here still have an excellent choice of dance clubs - the tradition continues!

[efunk_adelic]

[In the list of 500 songs in the page there are many that I think are pre-disco (all the hustle songs.. Silver convention, Hues Corporation, Tavares, etc) and some post 70s that dont even belong to the disco category either, even though there were some rock groups that adopted a disco beat for some songs (Rod Stewart- Do you think Im sexy or Paul Mc Cartney Goodnight tonight)....any thoughts about this ?...[/quote]

My first thought was that you think disco starts at 120 BPM's.... I remember when I was working in clubs.. a few people would say "can you play house music?" and for the life of me.. i didn't get it.. someone explained to me that it's anything danceable with BPM's over 120... I'm thinking omfg whatever.


I think you should re-think this and listen to these songs that came out of Philadelphia. And play them really loud.

MFSB - TSOP
Intruders - I'll Always Love My Mama
Faith, Hope & Charity - Too Each His Own
George McCrae - I Can't Leave You Alone

i picked these particular songs for you to listen to the drums... they're as disco as disco gets...

[tehuti]

Sorry to disagree, but the music I mentioned does not belong to the disco music category in my opinion. Silver Convention, Tavares (pre-SNF) and Hues Corporation have a slower beat than disco music, a different rythm. Dont know how old you are, but even the dance steps, the fashion, and the parties were different. Sure they were used to dance at parties and dance clubs, but the whole Disco phenomenon I think it began in the late 76s maybe with Donna Summer.

I don't know how old you are, but I was old enough to be partying in those days in NYC and I did. As a matter of fact I did some deejaying back then during my high school and college days. Maybe other places didn't get hip to disco until late 76, but we were already in full swing by then. I would put it at about late 74 or early 75 when things kicked off.

And BTW, the early disco tunes that we began doing the hustle to were slower. If I had to name 2 cuts that I identify with the beginning of disco they would be "Fly Robin Fly" by Silver Convention, and "Love to Love You Baby" by Donna Summer.

Are you talking about in New York, The East Coast of USA or in the UK? If you're talking about the UK then we're probably both correct.

[tehuti]

The "Real" disco era depends on one's opinion. Though the books generally say 1973-1982 but it differs with individuals and their experiences or knowledge or what they "class" as disco music.

What I call disco, half of it goes under generally as funk. Here are some real early songs that are generally classed as funk/R&B but I call disco:
Kool & The Gang - Love The Life You Live 1971
Curtis Mayfield - Move On Up 1970
Curtis Mayfield - If There's Hell Below 1970
Curtis Mayfield - Beautiful Brother Of Mine 1971
Curtis Mayfield - Get Down 1971
Isaac Hayes - Theme From Shaft 1971
Isaac Hayes - Theme From The Men 1972
Edwin Starr - Time 1970
Steam - Na Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye 1969
Intruders - She's A Winner 1972
Bar-Kays - Son Of Shaft 1972
Well at least these songs are the forerunners of what is later known as disco.

Anyhow I certainly can't disregard 1973-1975 from the "Real" disco category especially with songs like:
Gloria Gaynor - Never Can Say Goodbye 1974
MFSB - TSOP 1973
Ultra High Frequency - We're On The Right Track 1973
Brass Construction - Movin' 1975
Harold Melvin & The Blue Notes - The Love I Lost 1973
Harold Melvin & The Blue Notes - Bad Luck 1975
The O'Jays - I Love Music 1975
Fatback Band - Spanish Hustle 1975
Don Downing - Dream World 1974
Temptations - Happy People 1974
Blackbyrds - Flying High 1975
Blackbyrds - Time Is Movin' 1975
Louis Ramirez - Salsa 1975
Deodato - Skyscrapers 1973
Salsoul Orchestra - Salsoul Hustle 1975
Salsoul Orchestra - Salsoul Rainbow 1975
First Choice - Armed & Extremely Dangerous 1973
Lyn Collins - Rock Me Again & Again X6 1974
Commodores - Superman 1974
etc............

Anyhow I guess I could say that disco music got more advanced in the late 70s with the more percussions eg "The Break" 1979 by Katmandu, electronica style eg "From Here To Eternity" 1977 by Giorgio Moroder etc......

Anyhow I guess I can say the real disco era was 1974-1980 because from 1974 onwards more and more disco records were getting released. Prior to 1974 there were more so soul and funk records being released but still quite a number of disco songs came out prior to 1974 which I mentioned above, well I call them disco anyway :D .

Anyhow that's my opinion on what is the "Real" disco era.

___________________________
Aussie Aussie Aussie!!! Oi Oi Oi!!!

Excellent post. You give some good examples. I would concur with 1974 - 1980 as the core disco years. At least in New York many of the deejays played songs off your list in addition to the new tunes that were "officially" classified as disco records.

[DiscoMan]

I agree as well – core Disco years – ’74 – ‘80.

Disco was being played in a lot of our clubs by the summer of ’74.

As I said earlier, I was dating a young lady who was a talented and accomplished Hustle dancer by May of ’75.
So much so that I couldn’t imagine anyone becoming a Hustle dancer of her level in just a few months. So I would
think the Hustle made it up here a year or two earlier (early '73). And the Hustle was THE dance of Disco.

I would also think that if you lived in an area with a vibrant Soul and R&B tradition (we did) Disco was almost an "innocuous" (if that's the right word) or unnoticed evolution of what we were already listening to in certain dance clubs, therefore it appeared in some parts of the country well before others - '72-73 vs. '74-'75.

[Outsider]

I would say the disco era was from 1974 to 1981. :evil:

[markydefad]

I would say Disco Man has it right. His version is the way I remember it.

"Shaft" by Isaac Hayes from 1970 was a seminal new sound bridging the streetwise funk of Sly Stone and the new uptown orchestral soul that Barry White would further. This started a new movement with Norman Whitfield contributing to The Temptations ("Papa Was A Rolling Stone") and Eddie Kendricks (Girl You Need A Change Of Mind") doing his solo thing with this new sound: funky wah-wah guitars and sleek heavily-orchestrated strings.

Over 1971, 1972, 1973 it kept being adapted into the soul music production style (especially in the Gamble Huff Philadelphia productions). By mid-1974, it was everywhere including Pop radio back-to-back #1's ("Rock The Boat" &"Rock Your Baby") and by 1975, it was firmly the sound of the day--Gloria Gaynor hit the Pop Top 10 with the club record "Never Can Say Goodbye."

Early disco was mostly at a relatively slow-tempo that suited the dance styles of the day. 100-112 BPM tempos ruled most of the early big hits. Vicki Sue Robinson's "Turn The Beat Around" and Esther Phillips' "What A Diff'rence a Day Makes" were a couple notable early exceptions to move that dance tempo to the above 130 BPM level.

Disco didn't start with Euro-disco. It started with American R&B.

[Greg Wilson]

Disco had well and truly arrived in the UK once George McCrae's 'Rock Your Baby' went to #1 on the Pop chart in the summer of 74. As a result, the music press over here referred to it as the first Disco hit, thus bringing the term to wider attention.

As Discoman and markeydefad point out, Disco grew out of Soul and Funk (for example, many people would regard 'Rock Your Baby' as Soul rather than Disco). In the UK, where people had been dancing in the clubs to Soul music for a number of years, Disco (not so much a genre in its own right at first but a blanket term for the type of music played in a Discotheque) was, like Discoman says, a largely 'unnoticed evolution of what we were already listening to'.

You can never precisely date these things as everything comes from something earlier and inspires what happens later. However, the Billboard Disco charts, which markeydefad has reproduced for us over in the 'what are we listening to' section, commence in 1974 (at least from a New York perspective).

Where the era ended depends, I suppose, on your personal definition of what constitutes a Disco record in the first place.

[DiscoMan]

MarkydeFad
You are so right!
We oughtta collaborate on a "History of Disco" :D
I love "Shaft" both the soundtrack and the movie :D
I own the DVD and watch it often and love Quincy Jones.
Disco was/is primarily urban in origin.
You had to live in one of these broken down, decaying, northeast industrial cities (my frame of reference, western urban areas must have been as miserable!) to truly appreciate the kind of temporary freedom that Disco and the Hustle represented.
Watch "Saturday Night Fever" in that context and you will realize that it is probably the most accurate portrayal of urban youth in industrial America. It is truly a remarkable movie. For me it's like looking into a mirror!

[DiscoMan]

Greg Wilson:
Thank you for the compliment.
If you ever come to the States let me know - come visit me.
We have an excellent over 25 dance club they play a lot of classic Disco. My wife and I still do the Hustle to "Ladies Night" by Kool and the Gang :D :D :D :D :D

www.artbarworcester.com

[DiscoMan]

Disco never died it just returned to it's urban roots and evolved!
Rural America NEVER had Disco in it's Soul and that's where/why it is remembered as a "fad".

We had our day and northeast urban youth are now having their day! My 19 year old son is doing the same things now that I did 30 years ago.

His music ain't bad - I like mine more :D :D :D

[MPS]

Gloria Gaynors "Never Can Say Goodbye" was recorded in 1974 and is really typicall disco, with its characteristics (especially the drums, which plays an open hi-hat between the bass drum hit and the snare drum hit). This song was originally a soul song, and disco was much evolved from soul.
Also, if you take a look at the studio musicians playing on that tune, you'll see that it's the Groove Merchant guys (many default musicians of CTI too). These guys played that kind of style on many jazzfunk records, even earlier than 1974. Although, disco wasn't that BIG until some years later.