80s disco

[moremoremore]

Hello again,

I guess you could say this question is related to the one I asked in my previous post. In the early 1980s, when disco music was evolving into what is now referred to as dance music, producers and singers were often ditching orchestra sounds in favor of synthesizers or adding a more jazz or rock influence (which, of course, was nothing new -- consider Donna Summer's "Hot Stuff," for example). So how does one distinguish true 80s disco music from the new dance music during that time? I mean, even 80s songs commonly cited as disco such as the Weather Girls' "It's Raining Men," Hall and Oates' "I Can't Go For That," Blondie's "Rapture," Patrice Rushen's "Forget Me Nots," and many others sure as hell don't sound like 70s disco music.

Again, thanks in advance.

[drlove]

well, you're right in that the widespread synth sounds of the early '80s sounded much different than the widespread string-laden/orchestral '70s disco sound. That doesn't mean that that was necessarily a bad item of progress (just different) and also doesn't mean that some "throwbacks" to the '70s weren't still hitting it big in the '80s.

In my opinion, one of the last "70s-sounding" disco hits of the 1980s to hit #1 on the disco charts was Kool & the Gang's "Celebration" in December 1980. One of the last top-ten disco hits to feature that sound was Earth, Wind & Fire's "Let's Groove" from 1981. Then, if I remember correctly, the era of British synth dance/pop kicked in high gear, and that further evolved the sound of "most" dance music played in the clubs. But even tracks like "Never Gonna Give You Up" (1986) were reminiscent of classic disco (thanks to those Love Unlimited Orchestra-type strings).

[PierreConstantin]

The presence of strings give a disco feel to some 80's songs like Diana Ross' "It's never too late", "Sweet surrender" or "Who", excellent lp tracks from 1981 and 1982.

UP TEMPO:

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DOWN TEMPO:

[C6 Vette]

As late as early 1983, "Last Night A DJ Saved My Life" by Indeep sounded 70's disco to me.

[STEPHEN L FREEMAN]

For me, Disco's closest relation, in the 80's, was Hi-NRG.
I was on the Winter Music Conference's Hi-NRG panel for 2 years and we were always referred to as "the Disco Seminar". (One of my fave recollections was Ernest Kohl's slick retort to some A&R guy from Atlantic Records, who was bemoaning the lack of success with their release of the "Sinitta" LP... He said: "We've come along way from the days of a 300lb black woman wailing in a sequined tube-top." The entire room busted-out laughing.)

Hi-NRG was the term used for post-80's Disco, after Evelyn Thomas' song, "High Energy" went global. If for no other reason than "Disco" was a forbidden term, at the time. But mostly because Ian Levine's style for it, spawned an entire branch of music and remixes. All containing some adaptation of his keyboard sequence, for "High Energy". Much like "Ride On Time" spawned the piano riff that refused to die... plink, plink, plink, punk-plunk

Some other major players in Hi-NRG were Martyn Norris, Les Hunt, Nigel Stock, Ian Anthony Stevens, Bobby 'O', Patrick Cowley, Bill Motley & Trip Ringwald, Hedges & Beam, Ernest Kohl and of course, Stock Aitken & Waterman.

For the most part, it was a UK sound. (Record Shack, Passion, ERC, Electricity, Nightmare Records, etc...) In the US, what was known as "The San Francisco Sound", eventually came to settle under the Hi-NRG umbrella.

And prior to that early-to-mid-80's resurgence of uptempo, high BPM, female vocals (aka Disco), we had Canada (particularly Montreal) to thank for keeping the Disco genre alive. Albeit on a much smaller, but completely undeniable scale.

Hot Tracks Remix Service, which was built on the Hi-NRG market, even created a subsidiary label "NRG for the 90's", solely to appease their original subscription base of Gay DJs, when the main label moved towards a wider-range of "Dance Music" releases.

Of course there's plenty of songs, in different styles, that strike diferent people as "Disco". I'm not saying that Hi-NRG was the only form of Disco in the 80's. But it was the most widely recognized as such.

[PierreConstantin]

Hi-nrg can't be recognised as "disco of the 80's" . Hi-nrg began as a sub-genre in the 70's and stayed a sub-genre in the 80's; it was essentially popular among gay people but had troubles to cross over. Straight people can't really relate to phrases like "So many men, so little time", obviously gay . So are slogans like "party, sex, drugs and energy".

Even the Deep Beats collection "Essential Hi NRG Classics Volume 1" issued in 1994 is clearly targeted for gay men:

I would say that "Hit'n run lover" and "Do ya wanna funk" were among the few songs that had been popular between gay and straight people. Hi-nrg had to wait for Stock Aitken Waterman productions and Pet Shop Boys to really enter the mainstream. But when it did it it wasn't hi-nrg anymore.

For me, the disco music of the 80's is more or less ABC, Voggue, Chas Jankel, Diana Ross, Michael Jackson's "Thriller", Madonna's first album and "Into the groove", Carol Douglas' "I got your body" lp, Donna Summer's "Love is in control", Aretha Franklin's "Hold on I'm comin'", Alisha's "Baby talk", Leon Haywood's "I'm out to catch", Booker T.'s "Don't stop your love", Willie Hutch's "In and out", Shalamar's "A night to remember"...

[kdavid13]

I was looking at a Record World Disco chart from 1981 the other day - and the chart was diverse and included all types of dance music.

Let's be honest - Hi-NRG was disco with a new name...even early house music was 4-on-the-floor disco with a new name.

It was evolving and being reborn after the "disco" tag became the kiss of death in the music industry... so of course it had to evolve.It's not like there was a period when dance music became all-funk or all-rap or freestyle only.There was always diva-driven material with the typical boom boom boom boom leading the way.

Carol Jiani's Hit & run lover or Sinitta's Cruising or Lorraine McKane's Let the night take the blame are all Hi-NRG staples...yet they could easily be labelled as disco. As far as Hi-NRG being simply "gay disco" - some people did not get the reference - trust me. I recently had to inform a female friend of mine that It's raining men and Manpower were written by gay men and aimed at the gay market...but then again - by using female singers they became open to everyone.The way music should be.
To another woman - it was not unusual to hear a diva sing that she was Searchin' to find a man.

I remember reading a review and the journalist wondered : What is gay classic ? Does it have to be sung by a gay artist ? Or written by a gay songwriter ? Or enjoyed by gay people ? Or if there is one gay man in the orchestra - does it automatically become a gay anthem ???

When I began reading about house music - I was wondering "What does it sound like ??" then I heard House Nation or Love can't turn around and it was still disco.

Then a few years later - the Techno sound from Detroit made its appearance.I was reading Record Mirror and they managed to introduce the Techno posse (Juan Atkins/Kevin Saunderson/Blake Baxter...etc) and I thought - Hmmm a new sound.OK I'm ready - bring it on...and guess what ???

Yep it sounded like disco,too.

:icon_cool:

[PierreConstantin]

Some italo-disco songs from the beginning of the 80's are pure "80's disco"; Advance's "Take me to the top" and Firefly's "Love is gonna be on your side" are clear examples of it:

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[STEPHEN L FREEMAN]

Hi-nrg can't be recognised as "disco of the 80's" . Hi-nrg began as a sub-genre in the 70's and stayed a sub-genre in the 80's;

No. You're wrong.

We're all too familiar with the voracity of your opinions, but I speak from my career, as a reporter to the Hi-NRG columns. As well as a editor, remixer and Producer of Hi-NRG music.

I'd never be so crude as to step on someone's opinion. Much less, their industry experience. Hopefully, at some point, you will gain some resemblance of tact and/or respect for the knowledge and experience of others on the site.

I'm through with the subject. You are free to Flame-on, as I'm certain you will.

[Dayna]

Hi-nrg can't be recognised as "disco of the 80's" . Hi-nrg began as a sub-genre in the 70's and stayed a sub-genre in the 80's; it was essentially popular among gay people but had troubles to cross over. Straight people can't really relate to phrases like "So many men, so little time", obviously gay . So are slogans like "party, sex, drugs and energy".

Even the Deep Beats collection "Essential Hi NRG Classics Volume 1" issued in 1994 is clearly targeted for gay men:

I would say that "Hit'n run lover" and "Do ya wanna funk" were among the few songs that had been popular between gay and straight people. Hi-nrg had to wait for Stock Aitken Waterman productions and Pet Shop Boys to really enter the mainstream. But when it did it it wasn't hi-nrg anymore.

For me, the disco music of the 80's is more or less ABC, Voggue, Chas Jankel, Diana Ross, Michael Jackson's "Thriller", Madonna's first album and "Into the groove", Carol Douglas' "I got your body" lp, Donna Summer's "Love is in control", Aretha Franklin's "Hold on I'm comin'", Alisha's "Baby talk", Leon Haywood's "I'm out to catch", Booker T.'s "Don't stop your love", Willie Hutch's "In and out", Shalamar's "A night to remember"...

That's ridiculous,You're saying that "Straight people"can't relate to phrases like so many men so little time.(do you speak for all the heterosexuals out there?):icon_rolleyes::icon_rolleyes:and are you saying that only gay men can relate because only gay men liked sex and straight women didn't?:icon_eek:..Plus I never heard the term Hi-nrg until the 80's NEVER in the 70's..
The 80's brought on lot's of sub genres like freestyle,New wave etc..

[PierreConstantin]

That's ridiculous,You're saying that "Straight people"can't relate to phrases like so many men so little time.(do you speak for all the heterosexuals out there?):icon_rolleyes::icon_rolleyes:and are you saying that only gay men can relate because only gay men liked sex and straight women didn't?:icon_eek:..Plus I never heard the term Hi-nrg until the 80's NEVER in the 70's..
The 80's brought on lot's of sub genres like freestyle,New wave etc..

Like the "So do my [teachers, etc.]" t-shirt and others, the "So many men, so little time" was a t-shirt very popular in the gay community in the beginning of the 80's and I never saw a woman wearing it :icon_biggrin:.

The term "hi-nrg" was invented around 1983-1984 but the style of music existed before that specific name. Sylvester didn't wait for Evelyn Thomas or Miquel Brown to make music later known as "hi-nrg".

From Wikipedia:
In 1977, Donna Summer was interviewed about her single "I Feel Love", which was a mostly electronic, relatively high-tempo disco song without a strong funk component. In the interview, she said "this song became a hit because it has a high-energy vibe". Following that interview, the description "high-energy" was increasingly applied to high-tempo disco music, especially songs dominated by electronic timbres. The tempo threshold for high-energy disco was around 125 to 127 BPM. In the 1980s, the term "high-energy" was stylized as "Hi-NRG".
In the 1980s "Hi-NRG" referred not just to any high-tempo dance music, but to a specific genre, only somewhat disco-like. Hi-NRG is typified by an energetic, staccato, sequenced synthesizer sound, where the bass often takes the place of the hi-hat, alternating a more resonant note with a dampened note to signify the tempo of the record. There is also often heavy use of the clap sound found on drum machines.
[...]
From 1979 to 1988, Hi-NRG disco was especially popular among gay males in U.S. coastal cities such as New York and San Francisco. In particular, DJ/producer Patrick Cowley helped popularize Hi-NRG music at the The EndUp club in San Francisco. Cowley and New York producer Bobby Orlando were behind a number of Hi-NRG hits in this era. Examples of early 1980s Hi-NRG acts include Amanda Lear, France Joli, Sylvester James, Divine, and The Weather Girls. In the same period, a form of Hi-NRG became popular in Canada. The most popular groups of this style are Trans-X and Lime. It wasn't as closely associated with the gay club scene as the form that was popular in the U.S.
In 1983 in the UK, music magazine Record Mirror championed the gay underground sound and began publishing a weekly Hi-NRG Chart.

[Dayna]

Like the "So do my [teachers, etc.]" t-shirt and others, the "So many men, so little time" was a t-shirt very popular in the gay community in the beginning of the 80's and I never saw a woman wearing it :icon_biggrin:.
And Santa was the only one who wore red in the winter..:icon_lol:
Oh wait..I couldn't possibly be so narrow minded as to assume that if "I" didn't see anyone else in red that it was a fact..
The term "hi-nrg" was invented around 1983-1984
That's about when I became aware of the term..as did the masses.

.................................................. ......................

[remicks]

****

But then again
Did ANYBODY ( of any specified sub group) actually wear any of all those clever slogan t-shirts from the display windows of the Castro :icon_lol:

_______________


And can't we please reach the day here where people can express an opinion without others receiving it it as a personal attack. :icon_cool::icon_cool:
Opinions vary ...
All members have a right and should be encouraged to express them ...these are discussion boards.

I'm no expert and am not claiming to be ...

I like to let the charts do the talking.

So here's the DISCO TOP 50 for disco year 1983 .....

1983 BILLBOARD TOP 50 DANCE/ DISCO SINGLES/ALBUMS

1) BILLIE JEAN/ BEAT IT - Michael Jackson (Epic)
2) LET'S DANCE - David Bowie (EMI-America)
3) HOLIDAY/ LUCKY STAR - Madonna (Sire)
4) ROCKIT - Herbie Hancock (Columbia)
5) STATE FARM/ NOBODY'S DIARY - Yaz (Sire)
6) NASTY GIRL - Vanity 6 (WB)
7) FLASHDANCE...WHAT A FEELING - Irene Cara (Casablanca)
8. 1999 - Prince (WB)
9) THE SAFETY DANCE - Men Without Hats (Backstreet)
10) LIES/ BEACH CULTURE - Thompson Twins (Arista)

11) SHE BLINDED ME WITH SCIENCE - Thomas Dolby (Capitol)
12) JEOPARDY - Greg Kihn Band (Beserkley)
13) I.O.U. - Freeez (Streetwise)
14) IT'S RAINING MEN- The Weather Girls (Columbia)
15) SPEAKING IN TONGUES LP (BURNING DOWN THE HOUSE) - [COLOR=blue ! important][COLOR=blue ! important]Talking [COLOR=blue ! important]Heads[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] (Sire)
16) ALL I NEED LP (DON'T STOP) - Sylvester (Megatone)
17) BLUE MONDAY/ THE BEACH - [COLOR=blue ! important][COLOR=blue ! important]New [COLOR=blue ! important]Order[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] (Factory)
18. (KEEP FEELING) FASCINATION - The Human League (A&M)
19) THE LOOK OF LOVE - ABC (Mercury)
20) HIP HOP, BE BOP (DON'T STOP) - Man Parrish (Importe/12)

21) SO MANY MEN, SO LITTLE TIME - Miquel Brown (TSR)
22) LET ME GO - Heaven 17 (Arista)
23) WORK ME OVER/ I WILL FOLLOW HIM - Claudja Barry (TSR)
24) ELECTRIC AVENUE - Eddy Grant (Portrait/Ice)
25) LAST NIGHT A D.J. SAVED MY LIFE - Indeep (S.O.N.Y.)
26) EVERYBODY/ PHYSICAL ATTRACTION/ BURNING UP - Madonna (Sire)
27) THAT'S GOOD - Devo (WB)
28. ANGEL MAN - Rhetta Hughes (Aria)
29) SHE WORKS HARD FOR THE MONEY - Donna Summer (Mercury)
30) YOU CAN'T HIDE - David Joseph (Mango)

31) SWEET DREAMS (ARE MADE OF THIS) - Eurythmics (RCA)
32) NIPPLE TO THE BOTTLE - Grace Jones (island)
33) DER KOMMISAR (THE COMMISSIONER) - Falco (A&M)
34) TOO TOUGH - Angela Bofill (Arista)
35) CANDY MAN - Mary Jane Girls (Gordy)
36) OUT IN THE NIGHT - Serge Ponsar (WB)
37) WHAMMY/ LEGAL TENDER/ SONG FOR THE NEW GENERATION - The B-52's (WB)
38. JUST BE GOOD TO ME - The S.O.S. Band (Tabu)
39) MICKEY - Toni Basil (Chrysalis)
40) LOVE ON YOUR SIDE - Thompson Twins (Arista)

41) KEEP THE FIRE BURNING - Gwen McCrae (Atlantic)
42) MIND WARP LP - Patrick Cowley (Megatone)
43) ONE MORE SHOT - C-Bank (Next Plateau)
44) BLIND VISION - Blancmange (Island)
45) DON'T GO - Yaz (Sire)
46) SEX (I'M A ...) - Berlin (Geffen)
47) HEAT YOU UP (MELT YOU DOWN) - Shirley Lites (West End)
48. MANIAC - Michael Sembello (Casablanca)
49) DIE HARD LOVER - Loverde (Moby Dick)
50) THE MUSIC'S GOT ME - Visual (Prelude)

markydefad

I'll let others in the know confirm if this was HI NRG's peak year .. (?).... but it certainly included two of the most successful tunes of the genre....IRM and SMM


Which other songs here fit the HI NRG label??
Looks to me to be about 10 tunes or 20% w/ none being in the Top 10 .



*****

[Dayna]

****

But then again
Did ANYBODY ( of any specified sub group) actually wear any of all those clever slogan t-shirts from the display windows of the Castro :icon_lol:

_______________


And can't we please reach the day here where people can express an opinion without others receiving it it as a personal attack. :icon_cool::icon_cool:
Opinions vary ...
All members have a right and should be encouraged to express them ...these are discussion boards.

I'm no expert and am not claiming to be ...

I like to let the charts do the talking.

So here's the DISCO TOP 50 for disco year 1983 .....



I'll let others in the know confirm if this was HI NRG's peak year .. (?).... but it certainly included two of the most successful tunes of the genre....IRM and SMM


Which other songs here fit the HI NRG label??
Looks to me to be about 10 tunes or 20% w/ none being in the Top 10 .



*****

I'm not a gay man so in no way felt like it was a personal attack on me..But I'm a fag hag and love my babies~!!
I, just as you stated ..Expressed my opinion
Off this chart..Work Me Over and Keep The Fire Burning "one of Kenton Nix' best "were IMO great Hi-Nrg songs..plus the one's u mentioned..

[remicks]

*****


No that wasn't meant to reflect your post Dayna.

But .....as to your position about SMM appealing to non gays .....

even of the slutty straight women who identified with SO MANY MEN SO LITTLE TIME

I can't imagine them having much success in finding a straight male dance partner who'd want to go on the floor to that one !!

......unless they were really plastered and/or really horny :icon_mrgreen: of course .


*****

[discokicks]

I started djing in 1983. At that time, I landed a part-time position in a gay club and a straight one. I'd have to agree that Hi-NRG was more of a gay thing...even the most popular songs of this genre just didn't grab hold at the straight clubs...although I know this topic has been covered before in these forums and learned that it was quite popular for straight crowds in Miami.

I had just come out myself around that time and was in my glory hearing the music playing in the gay bars. I still remember that first night sitting at the bar (four or five rum and cokes in me), swooning when I heard Boystown Gang's Can't Take My Eyes Off You and Lee Prentiss' Have I The Right and saying to myself "disco didn't die...it just went back to the gay bars".

But at the straight club (once the biggest disco in my city called Notorieties than later shortened to Notes), I quickly learned how different the music was compared to my other club (HALO and then a third one: Studio 812). All clubs had their home libraries of music in the dj booths so I soaked up every song that was there...familiarizing myself with what had been and what was happening at that point.

There were some similarities...Eurythmics, Yazoo and Prince come to mind...but I soon got comfortable knowing which songs just weren't suitable. At the straight club, I remember Mary Jane Girls' In My House was huge but it got little reaction on the gay floors. Lime's Guilty was popular on all floors but Hazell Dean's Searchin' was a dud for my straight crowd.

And then there were songs that just didn't cut it at all for the gay crowd that were huge with the non-gay crowd...Naked Eyes Promises Promises, Duran Duran's Is There Something I Should Know and this one...



I loved mixing in MJ's Wanna Be Startin' Something into this! But this was strictly for my straight crowd. Even MJ's WBSS got a so-so reaction with my gay crowd although Billie Jean was huge.

All that glorious Hi-NRG and Euro music was reserved for my hot nights djing for gay men. I did introduce Shannon's Let The Music Play to my gay crowd which, of course, became a nightly request for the next couple of years. Looking back, it was a nice balance.

[PierreConstantin]

1983 BILLBOARD TOP 50 DANCE/ DISCO SINGLES/ALBUMS

1) BILLIE JEAN/ BEAT IT - Michael Jackson (Epic)
2) LET'S DANCE - David Bowie (EMI-America)
3) HOLIDAY/ LUCKY STAR - Madonna (Sire)
4) ROCKIT - Herbie Hancock (Columbia)
5) STATE FARM/ NOBODY'S DIARY - Yaz (Sire)
6) NASTY GIRL - Vanity 6 (WB)
7) FLASHDANCE...WHAT A FEELING - Irene Cara (Casablanca)
8. 1999 - Prince (WB)
9) THE SAFETY DANCE - Men Without Hats (Backstreet)
10) LIES/ BEACH CULTURE - Thompson Twins (Arista)

[...]
Which other songs here fit the HI NRG label??
Looks to me to be about 10 tunes or 20% w/ none being in the Top 10 .

I started djing in 1983. At that time, I landed a part-time position in a gay club and a straight one. I'd have to agree that Hi-NRG was more of a gay thing...even the most popular songs of this genre just didn't grab hold at the straight clubs...[...]
All that glorious Hi-NRG and Euro music was reserved for my hot nights djing for gay men. I did introduce Shannon's Let The Music Play to my gay crowd which, of course, became a nightly request for the next couple of years. Looking back, it was a nice balance.

Thanks Remicks and Discokicks, that was basically the point I was trying to make :icon_biggrin:.

According to Ian Levine, a song so famous like "So Many Men So Little Time" never even charted in England (on pages YouTube - IanLevine's Channel and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_MiRWo4Myw). It surprises me but what happened in the reality is not always what we remember from our own little perspective .

But then again
Did ANYBODY ( of any specified sub group) actually wear any of all those clever slogan t-shirts from the display windows of the Castro :icon_lol:

And about those tee-shirts, I remember them on guys in the Christopher Street area and not only on the display windows . (the "so do my teachers, friends, neighbors" being hard to read and understand at first glance because I didn't see immediately where was the pun).

[Dayna]

Thanks Remicks and Discokicks, that was basically the point I was trying to make :icon_biggrin:.

According to Ian Levine, a song so famous like "So Many Men So Little Time" never even charted in England (on pages YouTube - IanLevine's Channel and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_MiRWo4Myw). It surprises me but what happened in the reality is not always what we remember from our own little perspective .



And about those tee-shirts, I remember them on guys in the Christopher Street area and not only on the display windows . (the "so do my teachers, friends, neighbors" being hard to read and understand at first glance because I didn't see immediately where was the pun).

I still don't know what the (the "so do my teachers, friends, neighbors" Tshirts mean):icon_eek:Please tell me

[drlove]

Thanks, remicks, for posting that year-end 1983 dance/disco chart in Billboard, as it's appropriately topped by Michael Jackson's biggest hits off the Thriller LP. From the extreme mass media coverage of his funeral today, that 1983 chart you posted exclamation-pointed the fact that whether it appeals to gays or to straighties, classic dance music appeals to EVERYONE !

[SandraDee]

Hazell Dean's Searchin' was a dud for my straight crowd.

I used to go to straight clubs at that time & Searchin' was very popular in them which always surprised me, but I s'pose it is incredibly catchy. Really, alot of the hi-nrg was very poppy & I'm surprised more of it didn't cross over to the mainstream before the SAW deluge.:icon_eek: In the same way that alot of the funkier stuff like Fatback & Patrice Rushen surprised me when they DID cross over to the pop charts 'cos they seemed too subtle & funky for mainstream tastes.:icon_confused: