THP Orchestra

[ladyboygrimsby]

Can anyone tell me where there's a difference between the 'Manha De Carnaval' on the B-side of one of their 45s and 'Carnival' which,. I think, is on the Too Hot For Love album? Are they the same?

[K-Bee]

"Manha De Carnival" is a jazz standard. It's been peformed by countless jazz artists including Ray Brown, Duke Ellington & Lee Konitz. It is penned by two writers named Bonfa/Maria.
Bonfa is also behind another composition named "Carnival". I don't know if it's the same track.

[BrunoRepublic]

Manha De Carnival actually appears on two different THP albums: Early Riser and Two Hot For Love... as well as a very early Cnd promo 12". The versions on the two albums are different, but I can't be sure if the single and LP you're referring to have the same version. There are a *lot* of different mixes and/or edits of their early material... I was compiling all the Two Hot For Love material, and so far I've got 5 mixes... original 7" parts 1 & 2, original 12" (from BBE comp, there may be yet another mix on the b-side of this 12" but I don't have it), the remix that is on the album, and the Butterfly 7" (based on the album version, but still a different mix and not just an edit).

[ladyboygrimsby]

Manha De Carnival actually appears on two different THP albums: Early Riser and Two Hot For Love... as well as a very early Cnd promo 12". The versions on the two albums are different, but I can't be sure if the single and LP you're referring to have the same version. There are a *lot* of different mixes and/or edits of their early material... I was compiling all the Two Hot For Love material, and so far I've got 5 mixes... original 7" parts 1 & 2, original 12" (from BBE comp, there may be yet another mix on the b-side of this 12" but I don't have it), the remix that is on the album, and the Butterfly 7" (based on the album version, but still a different mix and not just an edit).

Thanks for answering this. In your opinion, which is the best? Or what are the differences? (PS: Which BBE comp is it on?)

[BrunoRepublic]

Thanks for answering this. In your opinion, which is the best? Or what are the differences? (PS: Which BBE comp is it on?)

The original RCA 7" and 12" single mixes aren't quite as over-the-top as the album version. They have more in common with THP's first release, "Early Riser", which is decidedly old-school disco. The original mixes of 2HFL have no Barbara Fry vocals nor W. Michael Lewis synth solo/effects, as these were added by AJ Cervantes & Co. There are also some background vocals (which are the *only* vocals in this version) that aren't on the LP/Butterfly versions. The only lyrics in the original version are the title "Two Hot For Love". The 7" A-side is quite short; less than 3 minutes IIRC. The B-side is a longer mix, clocking in at 5 minutes. The 12" version appears on Disco Spectrum 2, and is just under 7 minutes. These three are all the same mix, just different edits.

The album version is the best overall, being a glorious 16 minutes long. Barbara Fry wasn't a great singer by any measure, but having proper lyrics helps the song quite a bit. The synth bits are quite cool as well. The Butterfly 7" has the lyrics and synth bits, but the mix is different. The backing vocals are more prominent in this version, and the synth is pushed back.

The one thing that I really struggled with was the major differences in sound across all these versions. The RCA 7" was all midrange, as one would expect. The LP version had a boomy, muddy bass, but a very muffled top-end. The 12" version that I ripped from DS2 was very harsh; probably EQd during mastering. (Note: it also came from vinyl; reasonably well denoised, but still a few clicks here and there). The Butterfly 7" was worst of all, having no top end and unsteady pitch to boot. I had to fiddle around with the pitch bender function in Cool Edit to fix a couple of very noticeable fluctuations.

I suspect there are other mixes out there too... like whatever is on the b-side of the RCA 12", although it could be just a mono fold-down, which was common for RCA Canada at the time.... then again, none of my other THP-related 12"s from the time have this; most of them just have an instrumental or a different edit. Then there's whatever Butterfly put out on 12" -- whether this would be the same as the RCA, or another edit of the LP mix remains unknown. I recall someone posting here ages ago that when they got the "Best Of Butterfly" CD, they were surprised to hear 'all that off-key screeching' on 2HFL, and said that they didn't remember hearing it on their original Butterfly 12... then again, maybe there was more than one Butterfly 12... who really knows...

[Jimmy-Michaels]

Actually the versions of "Manha De Carnival" are the same on "Two Hot For Love" and "Early Riser". The one on "Early Riser" is just better sound quality. Also, on the label of "Early Riser" it reads "Carnival" but on the cover it reads "Manha De Carnival". I am from the USA and have the Butterfly "Two Hot For Love" LP and I dont know if its any different in other countrys and "Early Riser" was never avalible in the USA and I have the Canadian import on RCA of that one. "Early Riser" contains the second side of "Two Hot For Love" with a few original mixes that were remixed for "Two Hot For Love" but some are the same with better sound quality and it also has tracks not ever on any other LP ("Shadow Of Your Smile" being the best one out of the ones never released in USA and also the reason I had tracked down the LP after hearing it from a friend overseas).
There is one song that I know of and heard that aint on "Early Riser" and was wondering if it was a single only release which is "Fighting On The Side Of Love"..anyone know?

DJ Jimmy M

[BrunoRepublic]

Actually the versions of "Manha De Carnival" are the same on "Two Hot For Love" and "Early Riser". The one on "Early Riser" is just better sound quality.

You're right about that. My bad. Man, the mastering on that album is crap.

There is one song that I know of and heard that aint on "Early Riser" and was wondering if it was a single only release which is "Fighting On The Side Of Love"..anyone know?

On my 7" copy, this is credited to THP Orchestra featuring Wayne St. John. Jussi tells me his 12" just says Wayne St. John though, with no mention of THP. I suspect this song is on the WSJ LP that was produced by THP.

[Jimmy-Michaels]

Ahhhhhh ok, so it would be avalible over in the US on the LP with "Somethings Up" ? I have the 12" on salsoul for that one and I will say..that song mixes damn well with Two Hot For Love mixing in at one certain section lol. Yea the mastering on the "Two Hot For Love" LP on side B is real shitty on the Butterfly one I got.

DJ Jimmy M