Reflecting on our inevitable decline:

[remicks]

*****

Parker Palmer is spot on .......

BILL MOYERS: This seems to me one of those moments when the dots connect themselves. Reality can no longer be denied, right?

PARKER PALMER: Well, absolutely. Absolutely. So at the same time, I don't think that we should ever doubt our capacity to deny reality. I mean, after all, until you get to be our age, you really believe you're not going to die. That fundamental human fact of life.
And of course, that's part of our problem. I mean, I could make the same argument about the current economic collapse. Who didn't know it was coming? Who didn't know that a system that encouraged us to live beyond our means and provided all kinds of devious and ethically doubtful ways for us to do that was going to fall apart someday?

Who didn't know that housing was over-evaluated? That stocks were overpriced? Who didn't know that a system that makes the rich richer while the poor get poorer will someday face a curtain call? We all knew that at some level, just like we know we're going to die. And yet our capacity to deny reality is huge. And I think that we don't want to know what we really know because if we did, we'd have to change our lives. And now we have to change our lives because the whole thing is crashing down around our head.

.......................

BILL MOYERS: Why are there no movements like that right now, Parker, in terms of the widespread economic misery that has beset the country?

PARKER PALMER: Well, I think that's a very perplexing question. I've actually wondered since Vietnam why a larger movement hasn't arisen in this country against the palpable injustices of our system. I think there's a lot of anesthesia being — that's been pumped into American culture, the mass media television, various forms of entertainment, and the illusion of wealth that we now understand to be an illusion as well as the illusion that America is a world power.
I've never understood that one, the world leading power, because as far as I know, we haven't won a major significant war since World War II. And yet we've been able to pump enough anesthetic into the culture to maintain that illusion or the sleepiness that allows us to hold those illusions.
I do think that the recent presidential election is evidence of our capacity to mount a movement. And I think the Obama campaign was very skillful and not only skillful but understood something about the human heart to create the movement that it did. I'm fascinated with this, with the Camp Obama phenomenon.

......................

BILL MOYERS: Is this a heartbreaking moment in American history?

PARKER PALMER: Absolutely. It's a heartbreaking moment. And part of the heartbreak is around things that never should have happened, like the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. We're seeing that in our faces now. And it's good that we are because those things never should have happened.

Part of the heartbreak is around having to give up illusions that we've carried for far too long. And it's good that that's happening, too. And the two, of course, are related. But, yes, it's a moment of heartbreak. And it's a moment for people to step up and say we have to learn to hold these tensions in a life-giving way. We have to learn that Camp Obama has to be for all of us, whether we're Democrats or Republicans or Independents. We have to learn that we need to hang together or we're going to hang separately. We have to learn a new set of habits of the heart. And I think that can happen.

full interview:
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS


recommended viewing :icon_cool:


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[discokicks]

*****

recommended viewing :icon_cool:

******

What a wonderful discussion and I wasn't surprised when Parker Palmer mentioned his times dealing with situational depression. As he said, "In hard times, we learn to find a new set of habits of the heart".

There is so much wisdom and thoughtful suggestion in this half hour exchange between these two men. Thanks for posting it Remicks.

[DiscoMan]

Bill Moyers is an idiot.

[Bernie]

Bill Moyers is an idiot.

Since you have never contributed anything of substance to these forums, don't be surprised if one day you can't log in.

[DiscoMan]

I have contributed much to this forum, but the double standard is the rule.
If I had said Rush Limbaugh is an idiot this wouldn't even be an issue.
I don't subscribe to the left wing group think on this BB and I am frank
in my opinion of the liberal orthodoxy which is the rule here.

Moyers has had a long and notorious career of extreme left wing writing.
Rather that ask the question; "Discoman, why do you think that Bill Moyers is an idiot, what is it about his writing that you think is left wing?"
We could have opened the discussion.
I'm not surprised at your response.

[Bernie]

Rather that ask the question; "Discoman, why do you think that Bill Moyers is an idiot, what is it about his writing that you think is left wing?"
We could have opened the discussion.
I'm not surprised at your response.

If you have to be asked to answer in a thoughtful way and can't make a meaningful point then you have far greater issues.

[paul]

So anyway, there has been a lot of talk among some of us "extreme liberals" about what kind of economic structure we should model.
Some believe this may be the moment to galvanize some sort of change.

The fundamental issue is do we want to, if we even can, rehab the system and bring back the sort of capitalist system we had prior to "W", or do we want to invent a new system that among other things, places human needs and interest first over profits, dividends, etc.

My belief is ultimately, the capitalist structure esp. the one we've lived under the last 30 years is doomed to failure. Like invading locust, venture capitalist, corporate CEOs, etc, hop from place to place to ultimately maximize profits. After all than can be had in one region, it's off to another location. At various times, large scale and worldwide economic collapses occur as we now see. What we'll have left are cultures/societies are feudal or feudal like systems in it's wake. A handful of the wealthy ruling class and a large serf class surviving from day to day.
IMO, these conditions will lead to revolutions which often involve a lot of violence!

[DiscoMan]

Jeez Paul I don't agree that the situation is that dire. Clearly this "economic meltdown" is the result of a massive criminal enterprise, driven by a few key perps with the collusion of hacks in the USG.

And far too many CEOs are more interested in using American corporations as personal piggy banks for themselves and their boards of directors. IMO the perps of this massive fraud and theft should be arrested, tried, locked up, with all of their property and assets confiscated by the USG to be used to repair that portion of the damage they've caused.

Clearly American corporations cannot operate unregulated.
They've proven that time and again since Ronnie Reagan broke PATCO ('81?).

Moreover, what we are experiencing now is the dismal failure of the economic policies of "The Post Industrial Economy" of the USA - the de-industrialization of America, deregulation of the corporations and the squandering of millions of American jobs to Red China and other Asian suppliers of slave labor.

The USG has squandered our economic sovereignty and our manufacturing base in it's drive to the economic bottom.

To your point about revolution; It's time to take to the streets again. I spent a good part of my youth in the streets and believe the time has come that we need to do it again. The young are too comfortable to do so, however.

Profiteers in the USA used to be hanged...

[discokicks]

So anyway, there has been a lot of talk among some of us "extreme liberals" about what kind of economic structure we should model.

Along the lines of a new "structure" and with the ideas expressed from Palmer Parker, there is also the idea of a general shift in human mentality...that is, to begin the task of discouraging materialistic desire and the drive for wealth altogether (which certainly doesn't coincide with capitalism) and instead, concentrate on the needs of the inner soul. This kind of new movement can only begin with the very young. (However, I really believe that a large percentage of discomusic.com members are likely more in touch with their inner souls than the general population :icon_cool: )

Someone had posted this TED video on another discussion board which brilliantly introduces the idea of nurturing creativity. Sir Ken Robinson is also quite a funny guy.

YouTube - Sir Ken Robinson: Do schools kill creativity?

[DiscoMan]

Could we be at the dawn of a new "Counter Culture"?