The nerve of the productive working class .... like those that make cars ....

[remicks]

*****

We all know the true evil of the Amercian Auto industry is those greedy laborers ... those grabby folks who show up each day to actually make the cars!! Imagine workers wanting to make decent money in trade for providing 1/3 to 1/2 of their time on earth working , working to produce said goods!

Its no wonder those conservative republican senators want to punish them. They know that life on earth shouldn't be about pursuing ...... money !!!:icon_twisted:

Funny though ....they didn't feel the same about "punishing" those greedy money-hungry Wall Street "workers" .


I wonder just how much of the cost of a car goes into the labor aspect .....

And then I wonder just how much of what those Wall Street "workers" "produce" (?) translates into labor costs??

It is increasingly clear that what southern Republicans really want is to break the back of the UAW (which habitually supports the Democratic Party). Thus while demanding lower wages and benefits as part of the $17 billion loan to the auto industry (where labor costs are 10% of total expenditures) is crucial to them, they didn't make a peep about lowering salaries as part of the $700 billion bailout of the banking industry (where labor costs are 70% of the total).
In other words, the $1.7 billion worth of labor costs in the (unionized) auto industry are a big deal but the $490 billion worth of labor costs in the (nonunionized) financial industry is a nonissue.




http://www.electoral-vote.com/

I really want to believe a change has come ..............I really do ......



*****

[paul]

I totally agree remicks. This is no surprise however. The rethugs have always wanted this. This goes back to Reagan, heck even Nixon.

What continues to kill me is the apparent complicity of the dems. Their silence is complicity. It is increasingly apparent that the dems true constituents are REPUBLICANS!

[DiscoMan]

The democRats are shills for the corporations as much as the Republicans are - B. Hussein is a "Free Trader" and so are many of his cabinet appointees. What we are witnessing now is the collapse of that swindle known as "Free Trade"; the "post-industrial", "service based", "global" economy pushed by the corporations and their mouthpieces in academia and government. We need a new American Revolution. Forty years ago many of us took to the streets to force a change in USG policy. That time has come again. I sincerely hope B. Hussein and his minions bring about "Change We Can Believe In", but remember they all swim in the same corporate sewer.

[paul]

God damn it dm! It pains me to say this but I generally agree with you. Are you sure you're a rethuglican and not liberal.
Are you hoping for a more socialist, a more liberal, a more forward thinking agenda as well?

Here's the thing, until we get public financing, these guys will always serve their corporates masters first and foremost!

[markydefad]

I agree that the most of the Dems in Congress [with a few exceptions: Feingold, Boxer, Kucinich, Leahy, Wexler come to mind] are "corporate shills/ toadies" like the RePugs--just a little less cretinous in their demeanor.

Get rid of Pelosi and Reid--I can't stand to look at them and hear their namby-pamby ineffectual excuses why they can't do anything. I'm totally prepared to be disappointed in this new administration and it hasn't even started....the RePugs are gonna obstruct and the Dems are gonna shriek in horror and roll over and let 40 some senators control policy. I pray it doesn't happen---but the seeds are already sown for the Repugs to attempt to bring down the big O.

I truly hope I get to see that disgusting Alabama Senator Richard "mouth fulla grits & shits" Shelby get his comeuppance. What a stinking turd he is. And the mainstream media never ask him why he's working so damn hard to destroy the American car industry? It is disgusting.

[DiscoMan]

Rockefeller republicanism with a streak of libertarianism... The democRats lost me decades ago when they threw over the the ideals of the '60s and the working man for the corporations, and their taxing and spending to the point of confiscatory taxes for every half-a**ed (we must abide by the double standard) left wing idea that came down the pike. The latte sipping, living room Harvard liberals from Cambridge and Brookline have ruined Massachusetts for working people. The Boston beltway is doing OK; Massachusetts from Framingham and points west is an economic disaster area - Appallachia right in the middle of Massachusetts. Rhode Island is in even worse shape. No political plurality, no diversity of ideas, no free speech, severely depressed economy and no jobs for working people.

I travel across the country in my job and I have seen vast areas of the northeast and mid west that have been laid waste economically by the incompetent trade policies of both parties these past 25 years.

Unrestrained liberalism, just like unrestrained conservatism is ruinous. Absolutes are excuses for intelectual laziness. And both extremes have forced this swindle on the people called "Free Trade"... And Obama is a "Free Trader". I voted for Ralph Nader and see no hope for any fundamental change in trade policy. The USA cannot continue to transfer its $$$ overseas and provide jobs for Americans here at home.

And then we have this latest scam handout of tax money to Wall Street by their political friends on Capitol Hill...

[remicks]

The democRats are shills for the corporations as much as the Republicans are - B. Hussein is a "Free Trader" and so are many of his cabinet appointees. What we are witnessing now is the collapse of that swindle known as "Free Trade"; the "post-industrial", "service based", "global" economy pushed by the corporations and their mouthpieces in academia and government. We need a new American Revolution. :icon_cool: :icon_cool: :icon_cool: Forty years ago many of us took to the streets to force a change in USG policy. That time has come again. I sincerely hope B. Hussein and his minions bring about "Change We Can Believe In", but remember they all swim in the same corporate sewer.

CHANGE --- these may be the times .
Maybe it is becoming clear that capitalism ..... i.e. ---- letting money/profit be the ultimate force around decision making ... above employees/environment/country /each other etc. ....

... is past due for review.... past due being accentuated by its own current internal implosion ...

Maybe 2009 is the year for the beginning of change ....when we'll collectively start to decide what it is that does matter to us and what our role really is on this intricately designed planet .....

Maybe the aphrodisiac of money will no longer be so overpowering.
Maybe instead of who in the end has the biggest or the most marbles being the winner ....
maybe we start thinking of the winner as the one who best handles and shares them .

Maybe we'll decide we want & need to be something better.... something beyond selfish, beyond greedy ....beyond self serving.
Maybe.


BUT ............... then again .........

maybe we'll just keep on agoing like we are ....like a bunch of ditsy Sarah Palins ....or a bunch of manipulative Dick Cheneys.... or a bunch of "oh well, that's the next guy's/next generation's problem" (insert any politicians name)s .... until

.....well, until its just plain ol'...... too late sor-ree !



*****

[Videoskooter]

Economists lately have predicted that soon, very soon, only 6 :icon_exclaim: car manufacturers will be left. So, prepare for a worldwide 4-wheel crisis.

Daimler-Benz has just rejected the take-over of Volvo. Korean SangYong can't pay its workers anymore and are virtually bankrupt. The American car industry is in big trouble. So is Toyota. Porsche and BMW are holding back new models. The only one without problems is apparently AUDI. They do very well. The Chinese are catching up but they will only be successful if they start producing cars that don't fall apart, like they do now.

So, better fasten your seatbelts, coz' it's going to be a rough ride. Factories will be closed coz' carsales are dropping like a brick.

And another thing, if GM goes down, the pension funds will be vanished too!

[DiscoMan]

There is tremendous world wide over capacity in car manufacturing. Here in the USA we've had a situation where American car makers (particularly GM) have continued to inflate their production numbers by selling huge quantities of cars to the rental companies, thus artificially inflating their sales numbers, grossly depressing the prices of used vehicles and pertepuating a huge over capacity in production. GM could and should cut their fleet sales by 75% and shutdown that manufacturing capacity. So Video you are soooo right!

[paul]

Bottom line is we need to redistribute wealth. Too much have been given to the top 1%. As Henry Ford recognized, it doesn't matter how much product you have, if your potential consumer can't afford it your product is dead. This applies primarily to the US, the world's largest market.

[DiscoMan]

we need to redistribute [COLOR=blue! important][COLOR=blue! important]wealth[/COLOR][/COLOR]

End "Free Trade", bring manufacturing back to the USA.

[Videoskooter]

Troy Clarke, the chairman of GM has announced his plans: only 4 will probably survive: Buick, Chevrolet, Cadillac and GMC. Of course the European Opel will stay on the market too.

Hummer and Saab will be sold. Pontiac will be limited to 5 models but only in the near future, after that, big :icon_question: Saturn is in danger too!

In 2012 there will only be 4700 dealers left instead of the current 6600.

[DiscoMan]

Back when GM established Saturn GM had the right idea. The original good idea has long since been lost in the fog of marketing expediency and the bean counters cost cutting foolishness and has since become no more than an Americanized Opel (nothing wrong with Opel). Yes, I would pull the plug on Saturn; Saturn, Pontiac and GMC truck. GMCs and Chevys are the same; why have a second nameplate...? Chrysler is finished, Ford is fairly healthy. The American manufacturers excel in certain market segments and they need to concentrate on those markets (light trucks for example). Saab and Volvo are finished, Audi will be rolled completely into Volkswagen and disappear as a seperate brand. FIAT (?) and the French car manufacturers to be sure are finished. The Brits may be able to maintain some upscale market and platform commonality for Land Rover, Jaguar and Aston Martin. Used Maseratis and Aston Martins here in the USA are taking a beating on the used car market. Ferraris have become nothing more than "used cars" and are taking a beating as well. Interesting to contemplate...

[Videoskooter]

Saab and Volvo are finished

I'm afraid they are, especially Saab (=Ford). Maybe there's still a chance for Volvo (=Ford). But the Swedish government will prevent at any cost that those two brands will disappear.

Audi will be rolled completely into Volkswagen and disappear as a seperate brand.

Definitely not! Audi has become very successful over the last years and has transitioned from a very dull image into something hip. At the moment it's almost the only manufacturer that has no problems. Don't forget that Porsche is taking full control of Volkswagen.

FIAT (?) and the French car manufacturers to be sure are finished.

Fiat is not doing well but is resurfacing thanks to the new Fiat 500 and his twin brother, the Ford Ka. So there could be an alliance between Ford and Fiat. The three French car manufactureres are still very successful although Renault doesn't sell that well. Knowing that Citroën and Peugeot are already a group (PSA-France), it could very well be that Renault will join them or maybe Renault will team with Nissan, Mazda or Toyota.

The Brits may be able to maintain some upscale market and platform commonality for Land Rover, Jaguar and Aston Martin.

They are not British anymore. Range Rover is BMW, so is Rolls Royce and Mini. Bentley is Volkswagen, Jaguar and Land Rover are Indian (Tata) and Aston is a joint venture between Ford and a British and Kuwaiti investment company.

I'm also curious how the Chinese will do in the future. At the moment they produce junk but that can change quickly!

[DiscoMan]

I forgot about Porsche taking over VW. It's true, Audi is fairly popular here in the US as well. Ford dumped Jaguar just when the XF was introduced and appears to be a hit in the luxury car marketplace. There are those who love their MBs, BMWs and Lexuses regardless of what Cadillac and Jaguar have to offer...and the new Cadillacs are world class cars. GM really has a hit with Cadillac. I will buy US when it comes time to replace my Eldorado (other ride is a 4.0 XJS).