Plagiarism on disco

**Nano** · February 22nd, 2003, 12:18 AM

I'm still surprised from time to time about how some new dance songs rip off shamelessly old disco and soul records. I'm not talking about rap -that's a given and most of them quote the original credit- but direct stealing of melodies.
For example, I remember hearing Modjo's "Lady" and thinking "I know this". Some time later, I bought a Chic CD and found the main theme of the "Soup for one" movie... exactly the same melody, the same guitars, GRRRR!!! :evil:

Back in the day, I remember hearing Stevie Wonder's "Part time lover" and thinking how this guy could fall so low to steal bassline, rhythm and arrangement from Hall & Oates' "Maneater". Worst of all, Stevie's song was horseshit compared to his 70's stuff.

Do you have other examples to share?

**K-Bee** · February 22nd, 2003, 06:27 AM

Well - The whole disco house movement is build on samples from old disco records. Without these samples the style simply wouldn't exist. No Modjo, Spiller, Bob Sinclar, Dimitri from Paris then... :-?

Two tracks come to mind as being especially gruesome when it comes to ripping off old disco records.

Paul Johnson - Get get down. a specific mix named "Dancefloor Dub". it's little else than a looping of George Duke's 1979 song "Look What You Find"
Also
Class A - Streetlife. You guessed it. Looping of the crusaders classic with a drum machine on top

I never thought of the Hall & Oates / Stevie Wonder connection though. But you're right - it's the same bassline.
It seems unlikely that Stevie would have to turn to stealing but since "maneater" came first I guess he did.

**BrunoRepublic** · February 22nd, 2003, 08:48 AM

Of the stuff I've heard, Jam & Spoon have done some shameless stealing -- paricularly their Trip-o-matic 2002 album, which blatantly steals from Richard Wahnfried, The Alan Parsons Project, and Art Of Noise.

**Giovanni** · February 22nd, 2003, 02:46 PM

We already discussed this.......
.....like it or not, sampling has become legal, and all well recognizable samples are credited (Modjo etc..).

More we would discuss about all those records with mini- and pluri- samples that are not credited

**BrunoRepublic** · February 22nd, 2003, 03:31 PM

Trip-o-matic 2002 doesn't use samples of the original tracks. They simply copied the songs, and didn't give credit.

Not cool.

**Leatherman** · February 22nd, 2003, 06:25 PM

Chic "Soup for One" is a pretty lame track, far from their best. Modjo took a little bit of the music, wrote a catchy song over the top and made a massive hit out of it. What's the problem? Everyone made money out of it.

If it is just a case of looping round a big bit of a familiar record and adding nothing, then yes, that is pointless and uncreative. However, when a small section of an average track is used as the basis of something far better, then that is good re-cycling of old ****.

Anyone heard "The Rock" by East Coast?

**sirius** · February 23rd, 2003, 05:13 AM

Dear Leatherman!
Yes I have the 12" of "The Rock" from EAST COAST and
I mentioned it before, that it has been samples for
SUPERMAN LOVERS"Starlight" from 2002.
Cosmic Love & Kisses From SIRIUS & DARKTUNES

**Leatherman** · February 23rd, 2003, 11:38 AM

If you have heard "The Rock" I'm sure you'll agree, it is a very mundane record. "Starlight" is a far more memourable song and a good use of old rubbish!

**DJ-Pir** · February 23rd, 2003, 12:18 PM

A nice example is also David Guetta - Love don't let go, the long version shamelessly starts with copied parts of Deodato's Nightcruiser.
Funny enough, some of the younger dj's i know like the track the most for this intro......... :lol:

**Giovanni** · February 23rd, 2003, 12:32 PM

Again about sampling

Who sampled FRONT PAGE "Love insurance" recently?
Thinking for about one week now and my brains smoking

**Leatherman** · February 23rd, 2003, 02:21 PM

Originally Written by Giovanni

Again about sampling

Who sampled FRONT PAGE "Love insurance" recently?
Thinking for about one week now and my brains smoking

I'll listen to Front Page and see if it jogs my memory.

**Rab** · February 23rd, 2003, 03:06 PM

There seems to be a severe lack of talent in the music industry, particularly with the hip hop/rap crap. Today, it's all about MONEY, not putting out a quality product. I had to really laugh when I heard the theme from the Price Is Right being used in song...unbelievable. Today, the kids don't know any better because they have been fed nothing but "**** music".

Listen to the music in songs such as Forbidden Love by Madleen Kane and Love Insurance by Front Page for example. You can hear a whole symphony, in reality maybe these artists used synthesizers but the quality and talent are still outstanding.

I can remember years ago there was a big controversy about George Harrison's song "My Sweet Love" being taken from "One Fine Day" by the Chiffons.

**Com King** · February 24th, 2003, 03:49 AM

As said before, house music comes from sampling. 90% of house realeases have samples in it.

Sometimes it's really well used, using short parts of disco tracks to make bit hits, or use a really slow track to make a dancefloor killer ( I'm thinking about Wake up by Kut'n'paste, which uses wake up everybody by Harold Melvin and The Bluenotes)

But there are sometimes real plagias, and the worse is the original song is sometimes not quoted. I'm thinking about the last Bob Sinclar LP " Champs Elysées " : It is supposed to have only one song sampled ( Feel for U sampling Look for Love by Cerrone ), but I noticed recently that Champs Elysées repeats EXACTLY one of the violins arrangement of Amant - Hazy Shade of Love. And now I know what Bob Sinclar did : He has made played this part by an orchestra, so it's not sampling anymore, and the name of the original track is not even mentioned on the Bob Sinclar LP : and this is legal.

Here are few examples of HOUSE Big Hits using sampling:

Spiller - Groovejet ( Carol Williams - Love is you )
Roger Sanchez - I want your love ( Chic - I want your love )
Tom Jones feat Mousse T - Sexbomb ( Sister Sledge - All american girls )
Armand Van Helden - U don't know me ( Carrie Lucas - Dance with you)
Milk and Sugar - Salsoul Nugget ( Double exposure - Everyman )
Paul Johnson - Get get down ( Hamilton Bohannon - Me and the gang )
Pete Heller - Big Love ( Stargard - Wear it Out)
David Morales - Needin U ( Chi Lites - My first mistake, Rare Pleasure - Let me down easy )
Demon - You are my high ( Gap Band - You are my high )
Eddie Amador - House Music ( exodus - Together Forever )
Stardust - Music sounds better with you ( Chaka Khan - Fate, but what a great work here )
Gusto - disco's revenge ( Harvey Mson - Groovin U )

Etc etc ... the list has no end ... I keep the best for the last ... Candi sampled with no respect by Paul Johnson

Paul Johnson - Doo Doo Wap ( Candi Staton - Victim )

**Nano** · February 24th, 2003, 08:52 PM

I like "Soup for one" and don't think Modjo transformed the song a lot. Mainly they sped it up and that's all. I don't call that "make the song better".
I don't know if the sample is credited (is it really a sample?) and frankly didn't bother to buy the Modjo CD to check it out. But I can tell you in the near 500 times I heard that song on the radio, I never, repeat, NEVER heard someone mentioning the Chic song.

Sometimes, even if you're aware there is a sample, you never know how equal the song is to the original because you just don't know the track (my case with the Stardust song, which I like). I remember some years ago playing Stevie Wonder's "Songs in the key of life" to some friends. Suddenly there were heads turning all around -they couldn't believe how Coolio had ripped off shamelessly Stevie's "Pastime Paradise" for his only one hit. I know it's credited, but it's SOOOO EQUAL!!!! All people in the room agreed there was no creativity in Coolio, other than provide some rapping on a song already created.

I know many people in this forum hate rap, but I have to say there are artists in the genre which use samples in ways far more creative. The Beastie Boys are a perfect example. Maybe they are the minority, but proof that it can be done and not all sampling is ripping.
That's exactly why I was so :evil: with Coolio and Modjo when I heard them songs, yo punters!

**Robbie** · February 24th, 2003, 09:20 PM

I thought the melodies of Patti Brooks' "After Dark" and Erotic Drum Band's "Plug Me To Death" were exactly the same. I hope I'm right with the EDB song because I know there was a disco track with the same melody as Patti's song.

**Com King** · February 25th, 2003, 04:05 AM

Nano, concerning Coolio his second hit " Too hot" is a perfect plagia too on the Kool and the Gang song.

There are other "artists" like Will Smith who build success only on plagia ( Any difference between Forget me nots and Men in Black???)

But, if all the sampled house, or hip hop songs were made like "music sounds better with you", starting fro a short relatively slow sample, to make from it a huge and wonderful house song, nobody would tell something against sampling.

The problem is, everybody don't use sample with the same talent as Thomas Bangalter.

But it's positive to note that great house LPs don't use samples ( Homework by Daft punk, except Karen Young's Hot Shot in Indo Silver Club, and "Au Rêve", by Cassius issued last year, which created a really new sound)

**SandraDee** · February 25th, 2003, 04:47 PM

I'm always spotting similarities between records, but hey, nothing's original is it? A recent one i noticed is a v.similar brass bit used on Yello's 'Vicious games' & on Nightlife Unlimited's 'Precious moments'.

**SandraDee** · February 25th, 2003, 05:26 PM

Oh, & I also think Black Light Orchestra's 'Touch Me take me' is v.similar to Cerrone's 'Love in C Minor' BTW.

Nano, I so agree with your comments about Stevie's 'Part time lover'; this genius really lost the plot after '82 didn't he?! :(

Marcio** · February 27th, 2003, 12:36 AM

Listen to Have Some Fun by B. T. Express and maybe you can find the same or similar bassline of Got To Be Real by Cheryl Lynn !!!

Your love is for real now :-?

.

**zeca azevedo** · February 27th, 2003, 08:02 PM

Originally Written by Nano

Back in the day, I remember hearing Stevie Wonder's "Part time lover" and thinking how this guy could fall so low to steal bassline, rhythm and arrangement from Hall & Oates' "Maneater". Worst of all, Stevie's song was horseshit compared to his 70's stuff.

Do you have other examples to share?

Hi NANO,

how are you? I'm writing this because of your words about PART TIME LOVER and MANEATER. Come on NANO, MANEATER is a good pop song but it is just a pastiche of the classic MOTOWN sound of the 60's. The bass line of MANEATER is NOT original - listen closely to YOU CAN HURRY LOVE by THE SUPREMES and you'll se who's copying who. BTW, I think STEVIE WONDER is more apt to recreate the classic MOTOWN sound of the 60's than DARYL HALL. Again, I'm not dissing DARYL HALL, I'm sure he intended to pay a tribute to the MOTOWN sound with MANEATER. Don't forget this: STEVIE WONDER is recording for MOTOWN since the early 60's! He's one of the most important artists in the history of the lable, so he's completely free to make songs that evokes THE SOUND OF YOUNG AMERICA. Just listen to the old MOTOWN songs and see(hear) for yourself...

Peace,

zeca azevedo

**zeca azevedo** · February 27th, 2003, 08:19 PM

[quote="zeca azevedo"]

Originally Written by Nano

Back in the day, I remember hearing Stevie Wonder's "Part time lover" and thinking how this guy could fall so low to steal bassline, rhythm and arrangement from Hall & Oates' "Maneater". Worst of all, Stevie's song was horseshit compared to his 70's stuff.

Do you have other examples to share?

Hi NANO,

how are you? I'm writing this because of your words about PART TIME LOVER and MANEATER. Come on NANO, MANEATER is a good pop song but it is just a pastiche of the classic MOTOWN sound of the 60's. The bass line of MANEATER is NOT original - listen closely to YOU CAN HURRY LOVE by THE SUPREMES and you'll se who's copying who. BTW, I think STEVIE WONDER is more apt to recreate the classic MOTOWN sound of the 60's than DARYL HALL. Again, I'm not dissing DARYL HALL, I'm sure he intended to pay a tribute to the MOTOWN sound with MANEATER. Don't forget this: STEVIE WONDER is recording for MOTOWN since the early 60's! He's one of the most important artists in the history of the label, and in my opinion this fact gave him the right to record songs that evokes THE SOUND OF YOUNG AMERICA whenever he wants. Just listen to the old MOTOWN songs and see (hear) for yourself...

People here are saying that sampling = plagiarism. No, it's not. If the sample is credited, it is legal. There's good and bad cases of sampling, of course. Plagiarism is a different story. Do you want an example of plagiarism in DISCO? Pick your copy of BARRY WHITE's soundtrack for TOGETHER BROTHERS (which I like, BTW) and hear the first track, SOMEBODY IS GONNA OFF THE MAN. It sounds like... ELEANOR RIGBY by THE BEATLES! Just listen for yourselves and check what I'm saying.

Peace,

zeca azevedo

**disco1999** · March 20th, 2009, 02:12 PM

The subject is on plagiarism, inspiration, ideas from other songs not using samples from previous songs.

Here's a classic one:
Rod Stewart - Da ya think I'm sexy (79)
over
Jorge Ben - Taj Mahal (76)

Jorge Ben started procedures in court when Stewart gave the money he claimed to Unicef, Ben quitted suing Stewart.

**DyscoSouljah** · April 3rd, 2009, 07:30 AM

Originally Written by K-Bee

Well - The whole disco house movement is build on samples from old disco records. Without these samples the style simply wouldn't exist. No Modjo, Spiller, Bob Sinclar, Dimitri from Paris then... :-?

Two tracks come to mind as being especially gruesome when it comes to ripping off old disco records.

Paul Johnson - Get get down. a specific mix named "Dancefloor Dub". it's little else than a looping of George Duke's 1979 song "Look What You Find"
Also
Class A - Streetlife. You guessed it. Looping of the crusaders classic with a drum machine on top

I never thought of the Hall & Oates / Stevie Wonder connection though. But you're right - it's the same bassline.
It seems unlikely that Stevie would have to turn to stealing but since "maneater" came first I guess he did.

I believe Paul Johnson's Get Get Down is taken from Bohannon's "Me & My Gang" in 1978.

**DyscoSouljah** · April 3rd, 2009, 07:38 AM

Michael Gray's Monster Hit 'Weekend' was taken from Kerr's "Back At Ya"

What about Phatts & Small... All their releases are ripped... I believe they are called FreeMasons now, and upgraded their work though.

I feel it was a period back in 2000-2002 where all these songs were potential hits. It's easy the younger generation didn't know the original gems. It'll return in 2020 :icon_razz: