DELIVERANCE by SPACE: Awesome! - a disc ahead of it's time

[disco-disc]

I have just heard a Disco Disc from 1978 that is, IMHO, AWESOME !!!!!
and I thought I'd share it with you all........
It is from 1978 and by SPACE called DELIVERANCE.
(On CD: http://www.discomusic.com/cds-more/4484_0_3_0_C/)
Does anyone know it ??
It is a disc that could have been from any era post disco, even today, - it was way ahead of it's time ...:icon_cool:
Hopefully VideoSkooter can get a Video up of this tune...
I HOPE YOU TOO LIKE IT :icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin:

[STEPHEN L FREEMAN]

In 1977 Ecama & Romanelli did the same feat as Moroder did, with From Here To Eternity... And entire LP recorded using only keyboards, with the exception of a live drummer.

The Deliverance LP (1977 VOGUE Records) was their 2nd. Tango In Space was their 1st. (Released in the US on United Artists.) Also, an Electro-fest!

Picked-up in the US by Casablanca in 1978, I don't know if the remixed 12" of Deliverance was ever available, commercially. I won't say it's "better" than the original mix. Just "different" enough to warrant seeking.

Much the same as "Save Your Love For Me", from the next SPACE LP, was wonderful in, both it's original French composition, and Casablanca's US remix. (Also, I believe, never commercially available on vinyl.)

And the incomparable Madeline Bell (of solo work, Cerrone & birds of paris fame) did the vocals, on the "Deliverance" LP.

Then, in the late 80's, there was the terrific remake on PASSION Records/UK:
DELIVERANCE b/w DELIVERANCE (Instrumental)
by People Like Us feat. Cindy Dickinson
PASH-12 63

[disco-disc]

Hey Stephen TOP MAN, what info. you gave there !!
I was pondering who the female lead was.....Thanks, I know it is 'common knowledge', but when you 'forget' it is good someone reminds you.
BTW did you say you LIKED it ?? - I got the 12" disc,......so I must be LUCKY...
It immediately took me to a Pet Shop Boys type era...BUt It WAS ahead of it's time wasn't it........

[disco-disc]

BTW Madelane bell was the lead singer with Blue Mink...a group SOO English....
and my cousin used to back her on drums ......:icon_cool:

[STEPHEN L FREEMAN]

Hey Stephen TOP MAN, what info. you gave there !!
I was pondering who the female lead was.....Thanks, I know it is 'common knowledge', but when you 'forget' it is good someone reminds you.
BTW did you say you LIKED it ?? - I got the 12" disc,......so I must be LUCKY...
It immediately took me to a Pet Shop Boys type era...BUt It WAS ahead of it's time wasn't it........

BTW Madelane bell was the lead singer with Blue Mink...a group SOO English....
and my cousin used to back her on drums ......:icon_cool:

Definitely ahead of it's time! But not alone. Alongside Kebekelektric, Moroder, Kraftwerk, etc...

I LOVED Space's stuff! And if you come across the original LP, I suggest you get it. DELIVERANCE is wholly different. With a loooong down-tempo accapella intro, that is just eerie and beautiful, at the same time.

And I recall buying the "Blue Mink" LP, at a used record store, simply because Madeline Bell was the vocalist. I learned, over the years, just how huge she was in British pop-music. Albeit under so many different groups' names, etc...

And, if you look at the back of your Love In C-Minor LP, there's Madeline, in the white shirt, with the red '20' on it.
If I'm not mistaken: "He just turned around. Look at the front of him. That ain't no banana!", was Madeline's infamous line from the original, conversational intro to Love In C-Minor.

[Charlie Windle]

Love the 12" of My love is music and Just blue but have not heard Deliverance. But I did know Paul Crossley(People like us) from South Africa and always thought his partner Terry wrote their version of Deliverance???
Is it really a cover of Space???

[markydefad]

The video exists on youtube...when I try to post it here...I get errors...maybe someone else can get it?

[thommy2458]

WHY has no one compiled a proper compilation
of this magnificent group? I have an import CD
of "Just Blue" but wouldn't it be great to have
a complete retrospective with "Carry On,Turn Me On"
"MagicFly" and all those Casablanca remixes on one
CD? Wouldn't it?

Thom

[STEPHEN L FREEMAN]

Love the 12" of My love is music and Just blue but have not heard Deliverance. But I did know Paul Crossley(People like us) from South Africa and always thought his partner Terry wrote their version of Deliverance???
Is it really a cover of Space???

You are so right and I am SO wrong.
The 'People Like Us' track was an original composition.:icon_redface:

De La Soul sample-looped Space's "Deliverance" on their final LP, in 2005.

Kebekelektrik covered "Magic Fly" on a TK 12" in 1977. The LP came out on Salsoul, in 1978.
Also, Saturn EA1 (Costandinos & Khnenetsky) did "Magic Fly" in 1977, on the Barclay LP of the same name..

I had my cover-versions totally jumbled in my head.:icon_eek:

WHY has no one compiled a proper compilation of this magnificent group? I have an import CD of "Just Blue" but wouldn't it be great to have a complete retrospective with "Carry On,Turn Me On" "MagicFly" and all those Casablanca remixes on one CD? Wouldn't it?

I read that, in 1999, VIRGIN Records released the SPACE catalogue on CD and a "The Best of SPACE" on CD. But I doubt the Casablanca pro mixes are on them.

Also, "The Very Best of Space" was released on Record Shack/UK. Unfortunately, "Deliverance" isn't on it and it's all short versions. Except for the 1985 remixes, by 'Flood', of "Magic Fly" & "Carry On, Turn Me On", which are spectacular!
They were also released on a 12" single - SPACE: Magic Fly (remix) b/w Carry On, Turn Me On (remix) - Record Shack cat.# "REMIX 1"

But, what you're asking for, may be this discontinued 2-CD Set, from VOGUE Records, France - 1990:

It contains all four Space LPs (except for Let Me Know the Wonder, Mixed up and Love Staring You and Me) plus both sides of the 'Tender Force' single.

2-CD MAGIC SYNTHETISEURS [1977-80](1990: Vogue, VG 660 660502)

Magic Fly 4.18
Velvet Rape 4.27
Carry On, Turn Me On 8.11
Fasten Seat Belt 5.58
Ballad for Space Lovers 2.16
Tango in Space 4.28
Flying Nightmare 3.26
Prison 6.16
Running in the City 4.12
Air Force 4.23
Baby's Paradise 5.34
Deliverance 6.37
Just Blue 4.31
Final Signal 4.20
Secret Dreams 4.27
Symphony 4.59
Save Your Love For Me 6.42
Blue Tears 5.38
My Love Is Music 6.43
Inner Voices 3.31
Space Media 3.26
Tender Force 3.57
Robbots 3.36
On the Air 3.29
Deeper Zone 7.14

[markydefad]

I couldn't make this work at the office--but it does from home!!!

[markydefad]

Stephen,

My fave Space track is "Save Your Love For Me"--just a stunning track.

I've asked this before-- but never got much of an answer. Since you know a lot of the backstory on why things happened.... regarding the BPMs... do you have any insight as to why the LP track was around 144 bpm while the 12" was slowed to around 133 bpm.

Were the vocals pitched down as well as the beats??? Doesn't seem so...so how did they get the beats slowed down around -10 BPM...and it still matched..am I explaining this correctly??? I'm confusing myself...so I guess that would be a BIG NO. :icon_rolleyes::icon_exclaim:

When I first started doing the BPM thing--I thought I'd counted wrong...until I realized that the LP was FASTER!!! :icon_idea:

So I suppose it was to make it more danceable....but any other insights????

[STEPHEN L FREEMAN]

Stephen,
My fave Space track is "Save Your Love For Me"--just a stunning track.

I couldn't agree more! Lyrically, as well as, melodically...BRILLIANT!
I had 2 copies of the Casablanca remix and sold one of them for $300.00, to a guy who came into Uncle Charlie's / Miami, on a night that I just happened to have played it. Never saw him again, either.

I've asked this before...do you have any insight as to why the LP track was around 144 bpm while the 12" was slowed to around 133 bpm?

And I recall reading your post on this question. Only a few months ago?

I've never done a comparison of the two. And never knew of any difference, until you'd mentioned it.:icon_confused: Probably, because I can't recall ever using the LP mix at work.

I'm at the office, so I can't check right now. But as soon as I hear them, I'm sure it'll come-to-me.

[STEPHEN L FREEMAN]

Were the vocals pitched down as well as the beats??? Doesn't seem so...so how did they get the beats slowed down around -10 BPM...and it still matched..

Your answer is right there. Go back and compare the two.

Notice how the LP vocals are a crystal-clear, high-pitched female? And the 12" sounds like, either a high-pitched male, or a hard-edged-gospel-black female? It's the same vocalist on both versions. But they used different recording takes, at different speeds, for each mix.

For the remix they pitched down the entire Master by 6%. Taking the tempo from 141-142bpm, down to 131-132bpm. (Remember, in the 45rpm played at 33rpm thread, how I'd said there was a certain point where the pitch moves far enough, that the key starts to sound correct, again? Damn near 6%, in either direction, is the first of those points. So, the slower version's vocal doesn't really sound like it's been slowed-down.)

The 12" is using the b-lead vocal track, which has a bit more wailing and melodic improvisation. It's pretty standard to run an a-lead vocal track on the Multi-track Master (wherein the singer stays rigidly within the melody, as written), and a b-lead vocal. (wherein the vocalist gets more stylistic freedom) Then, you use what's best from the b-lead vocal (and the ad-lib track, if you recorded one), to spice-up the final mix-down. Usually, during the 2nd half, or towards the end of the song. But here, for the remix, the b-lead was used all the way through.

(I don't know if you've ever heard the DMC remix of Grace Jones' "La Vie En Rose"? But they created it, entirely from Grace's b-lead vocal and ad-lib tracks. Which Tom Moulton, all but completely, ignored. It sounds as if it's a new recording, except, at certain points, you can tell it's from the original session.)

When I sped-up the 12", to match the LP, the kick-drum and high-hats went into flange. That kills any question about the song being re-recorded. And the voices became the same. You'll find that, structurally, the vocals match-up perfectly, throughout the mix (at least, up until the break, which is when I stopped the comparison). Except, you're hearing two different vocal "takes" by the same singer. The arrangements on the mixes are completely different (the LP makes sparce use of the percussion tracks, where the 12" has them up-and-running, from start-to-finish) , but the kick and high-hat stay locked in flange. The vocals sound different, but enter and exit both versions at exactly the same points. Which means the LP and remix were done on a straight-pass through the master, with no editing. (Again, at least, up until the break.)

All this, being a very long and detailed explanation of how I can tell that the answer to your question is:

They slowed it down 10bpm, and then remixed it.

[STEPHEN L FREEMAN]

Picked-up in the US by Casablanca in 1978, I don't know if the remixed 12" of Deliverance was ever available, commercially. I won't say it's "better" than the original mix. Just "different" enough to warrant seeking.

BTW did you say you LIKED it ?? - I got the 12" disc,......so I must be LUCKY...

I preferred the LP, because I liked the dramatic intro on it. And it was not something that I'd have played, considering the crowd I was spinning for, at that time. So, my copy of the 12" remained on-the-shelf. But I never realised, until now, how different (though, through no spark of creative genius, for sure...) the two versions really are.

After I got done with "Save Your Love For Me", I did a comparison of the LP and 12" versions of "Deliverance". I was unpleasantly suprised by the results.

Since there's no remixing going on, the only differences are:

1) The LP clocks-in at 124.5bpm and the "remix" 12" runs at 125.5bpm. But that could be caused by a number of things. So, I doubt it was intentional.

2) The entire dramatic build-up introduction from the LP, has been hacked-off, for the 12". And not even properly! There's this slice of a bass note at the start. Sloppy...just sloppy.:icon_rolleyes: Granted, it was long. And, back in the day of live drummers, DJs rarely could run long accapella-type overlays. But a 5-year old, running with scissors, could've done it cleaner.

3) The most heartbreaking of all... The entire break is simply hacked out of the song! And awfully done, to boot! The "De" in the word "De-liverance", is actually cut-off. I mean come on! How lazy does a guy need to be, that he can't back-into a half-note, for a proper edit???:icon_evil:
Again, I'll admit the break is really stark. With everything dropping-out at the same time. (Save Madeline's (brilliant!) vocal and the kick-drum on 1 and 3.) Then re-building, track by track. VERY dramatic! I consider it to be the best part of the song! But, for the sake of keeping the NRG level of the song, up... Whomever did it, could have left, at least, the last 32 beats of the break intact. But nope. Just CHOP!:icon_eek: It's gone.

So... I'd say, keep your eyes open for the LP. If you like the song, you will be floored by the original mix.
The intro and the build-up from the break are, in a word, glorious!

[markydefad]

All this, being a very long and detailed explanation of how I can tell that the answer to your question is:

They slowed it down 10bpm, and then remixed it.

Wow, thanks Stephen for that incedibly detailed explanation. I really appreciate you taking the time to do that. So which version did you like the best? I've always been parttial to the LP version --but I realize that the 12" is better-suited to the demands of the dancefloor--easier to program....when you get to the early 140 BPM area--the options are fewer-- maybe "Sunset People" would work?

Another example of this that I've encountered is Claudja Barry's "Dancin' Fever"---which has a slow version at around 98 BPM and another version sped up to around 110 BPM....the faster version, as I recall, was on one of those cd compilations called "The Best Disco In Town."

[STEPHEN L FREEMAN]

Wow, thanks Stephen for that incedibly detailed explanation. I really appreciate you taking the time to do that. So which version did you like the best?

My pleasure! Think of it, like your charts... We both share the OCD gene. It just manifests in different forms.

In a reverse of my experience with "Deliverance"... I worked the 12" of this, and had no cause to play the LP. So, it remained on-the-shelf. Until now, I'd never even noticed the speed change. But I find the slower vocal version to be a lot more emotional than the LP's. And the higher-NRG, playing against the more wailing vocals, adds drama to the song. Gotta have that! Right?

As for the Claudja Barry track...? eh! I never cared-much for the song, so I never noticed. I think I have both versions. (the Salsoul/US LP and the London/Canada 12") But really, just because I like "Johnny, Johnny, Please Come Home". Which is 8mins+, on the b-side of the London 12".
To be honest, I'm not suprised there's such an obvious difference out there. Tom Moulton, basically, re-Produced the first two LPs, anyway. The original recordings were, at times, abysmal.

[STEPHEN L FREEMAN]

So which version did you like the best?
I've always been partial to the LP version -- but I realize that the 12" is better-suited to the demands of the dancefloor...

Ya know...?
I just went back and gave a good, loud listen to the LP version, and...
Original, or remix... faster, or slower... inside-out, upside-down, or standing on it's head...

The song's freakin' gorgeous, no matter which!

[Chap2Power]

In 1977 Ecama & Romanelli did the same feat as Moroder did, with From Here To Eternity... And entire LP recorded using only keyboards, with the exception of a live drummer.

The Deliverance LP (1977 VOGUE Records) was their 2nd. Tango In Space was their 1st. (Released in the US on United Artists.) Also, an Electro-fest!

Picked-up in the US by Casablanca in 1978, I don't know if the remixed 12" of Deliverance was ever available, commercially. I won't say it's "better" than the original mix. Just "different" enough to warrant seeking.

Much the same as "Save Your Love For Me", from the next SPACE LP, was wonderful in, both it's original French composition, and Casablanca's US remix. (Also, I believe, never commercially available on vinyl.)

And the incomparable Madeline Bell (of solo work, Cerrone & birds of paris fame) did the vocals, on the "Deliverance" LP.

Then, in the late 80's, there was the terrific remake on PASSION Records/UK:
DELIVERANCE b/w DELIVERANCE (Instrumental)
by People Like Us feat. Cindy Dickinson
PASH-12 63

I'm pretty sure that Madeline also sang bg's on Donna Summer's Love To Love You and some of the early Oasis label releases..

Vince

[Chap2Power]

Love the 12" of My love is music and Just blue but have not heard Deliverance. But I did know Paul Crossley(People like us) from South Africa and always thought his partner Terry wrote their version of Deliverance???
Is it really a cover of Space???

Paul and Terry absolutely did. Great and very funny guy, Paul was ... he once told me that they almost didn't release "Reincarnation" because religious groups in South Africa were freaking out about its content. He thought it was hilarious.

Vince

[Chap2Power]

WHY has no one compiled a proper compilation
of this magnificent group? I have an import CD
of "Just Blue" but wouldn't it be great to have
a complete retrospective with "Carry On,Turn Me On"
"MagicFly" and all those Casablanca remixes on one
CD? Wouldn't it?

Thom

They have re-issued the original albums on CD, but just like TSR's "12 Inches And More" compilation on Madleen Kane, legal reasons may be behind the non-issue of the remixes. Most of the US labels licensed the acts and kept the rights and rights to the mixes. The funny thing, is in all cases, there were no credits as to who mixed them. Therefore, they could been owned by producer JP Iliesco and maybe they can't find the tapes.

[Chap2Power]

My pleasure! Think of it, like your charts... We both share the OCD gene. It just manifests in different forms.

In a reverse of my experience with "Deliverance"... I worked the 12" of this, and had no cause to play the LP. So, it remained on-the-shelf. Until now, I'd never even noticed the speed change. But I find the slower vocal version to be a lot more emotional than the LP's. And the higher-NRG, playing against the more wailing vocals, adds drama to the song. Gotta have that! Right?

As for the Claudja Barry track...? eh! I never cared-much for the song, so I never noticed. I think I have both versions. (the Salsoul/US LP and the London/Canada 12") But really, just because I like "Johnny, Johnny, Please Come Home". Which is 8mins+, on the b-side of the London 12".
To be honest, I'm not suprised there's such an obvious difference out there. Tom Moulton, basically, re-Produced the first two LPs, anyway. The original recordings were, at times, abysmal.

I know that Jurgen Kordelutsch hated the remixes on the 2nd album in particular, but I will say I totally agree with you Steven: His re-work of Johnny Johnny could be my favourite of almost anything Tom has done. I could listen to this record for days and never get bored. Both of those two Salsoul releases are unbelievable.

[STEPHEN L FREEMAN]

I know that Jurgen Kordelutsch hated the remixes on the 2nd album in particular, but I will say agree with you Steven: His re-work of Johnny Johnny could be my favourite of almost anything Tom has done. I could listen to this record for days and never get bored. Both of those two Salsoul releases are unbelievable.

And I, for the life of me, will never understand why the London/Canada 12" of "Love For The Sake Of Love" b/w "Sweet Dynamite" goes for a King's ransom. Compared to Tom's re-productions (Ooops! I mean re-mixes) of those songs, the originals couldn't hold a candle to the Salsoul releases! Tom practically had to bury Claudja's vocals under the Sweethearts Of Sigmas' additional production back-ups!

Don't get me wrong... I LOVE'S me some Claudja! And Jurgen is one of the nicest, most brilliantly talented Men I've ever met.
But... You gotta agree... That LP, in it's original state, was neither of their finest hours.

[SandraDee]

WHY has no one compiled a proper compilation
of this magnificent group? I have an import CD
of "Just Blue" but wouldn't it be great to have
a complete retrospective with "Carry On,Turn Me On"
"MagicFly" and all those Casablanca remixes on one
CD? Wouldn't it?

Thom

If you go onto the Space website (www.space.tm.fr) you can buy a fab compilation CD plus the original LPs on CD too. Not sure if they're the Casablanca remixes or not on the compilation CD but the version of 'My Love Is Music' is longer than my original LP version so I assume it's a 12" remix.

[Chap2Power]

And I, for the life of me, will never understand why the London/Canada 12" of "Love For The Sake Of Love" b/w "Sweet Dynamite" goes for a King's ransom. Compared to Tom's re-productions (Ooops! I mean re-mixes) of those songs, the originals couldn't hold a candle to the Salsoul releases! Tom practically had to bury Claudja's vocals under the Sweethearts Of Sigmas' additional production back-ups!

Don't get me wrong... I LOVE'S me some Claudja! And Jurgen is one of the nicest, most brilliantly talented Men I've ever met.
But... You gotta agree... That LP, in it's original state, was neither of their finest hours.

Could it be that the original Lollipop/London mixes were not as readily available and it's a curiousity..could be !

[Summerlover]

Thanks all - i've found this thread very useful for all things "Space"!

Been checking out their catalogue (was only aware of "Magic Fly" as a kid back in the day) & was surprised to find that "Carry on, turn me on" is used heavily in a recent funky-house tune I've been enjoying by Kienzle & Iberle:
YouTube - Kienzle & Iberle - Touch Me

I knew it had a Seventies feel to it, but couldn't work out why, now I know!
:icon_biggrin: