Chart Hit [Level 6]
I don't know if this is the right section to post this, so my apologies if I've got it in the wrong section.
While doing some research into 70's music for a playlist, I discovered a site that contains the Cashbox magazine charts from the mid-1940's to 1996. Having always based my musical 'selections' on what's on the Billboard charts, can anyone tell me if there was any difference between what was on Billboard vs Cashbox? Which was the more respected chart service in the industry? Was one more valued than the other? And why did Cashbox cease publication?
Chart Hit [Level 6]
Billboard was more revered I guess and taken more seriously than Cash Box (after all, the American Top 40 was based on Billboard's chart).
Cash Box and Billboard's charts could be similar at times, and not-so-similar at other times. During the '70s, a lot of songs made the CB charts that did not appear in BB's. Also, many songs that placed high on BB didn't chart the same way on CB.
"Everyone knows the real reason why you got that part it was the time you spent on that casting couch"--Antoine Merriwether
"Excuse me, Miss Thing, but both of us spent time on that couch"--Blaine Edwards
Chart Hit [Level 6]
Hi Bob, what is the URL of the Cashbox charts site please?
Underground Hit [Level 5]
Hi disco-disc:Originally Written by disco-disc
Before the Cdnbob answer I googled it and find the website.
Try here:
Cash Box Top Singles
Hope it helps.
Cheers,
Hessel
Cheers,
Hessel
:icon_razz: :icon_biggrin: :icon_razz: :icon_biggrin:
Triple Platinum Record [Level 10]
Hmmmm...that's interesting. Must spend some time checking out their pop charts. Thanks for the tip.
"Lost inside adorable illusion...."
Chart Hit [Level 6]
Yup, that's the site. Its been interesting reading I can say that.
Chart Hit [Level 6]
For the most part, Cashbox (to the best of my amateur chart-freak understanding) represented the best-selling 45s in the nation, while Billboard's Hot 100 was always a mixture of radio play and record sales.
From looking at the #1 hits in the '70s on Cashbox, you'll see many, many Billboard #1's and many other Billboard top 5's. Rarely, though, you'll get an exception like this: Cashbox has "Run Joey Run" (tragic teenage tale) hitting No. 1 in October '75, whereby its highest ranking in Billboard was only a "measly" #10.
When Record World and Cashbox and Billboard all had competitive record industry trade magazines, an oft-quoted rallying cry was "It Ain't No. 1 'til it's No. 1 in Billboard". As the other 2 ceased publication over the years, Billboard certainly reinforced its authority in the music biz.
However, from a collecting standpoint, Cashbox and Record World always had cooler covers, as they would typically use up the entire cover with a pic of a popular artist of the day. Billboard's covers generally resembled a newspaper with columns upon columns and little pics here and there.
Gold Record [Level 7]
at the Cashbox site... I thought I read somewhere that they include jukebox plays as well.
Chart Hit [Level 6]
"Run Joey Run" peaked at #4 on Billboard's Hot 100 chart on October 4, 1975.
I've always felt that Billboard's Hot 100 chart was erratic in the mid-'70s; a song was #1 one week and the following week fell out of the Top 10, and would be off the chart in two-to-three weeks. Same for records in the top ten, especially from late 1974-late 1975. It wasn't until the summer of 1976 that records started having a longer shelf life, and the length of #1's increased (Rod Stewart's "Tonight's The Night" eight-week run at #1 in late 1976 was the longest stay at #1 on the Hot 100 since Gilbert O'Sullivan's "Alone Again (Naturally)" in 1972).
"Everyone knows the real reason why you got that part it was the time you spent on that casting couch"--Antoine Merriwether
"Excuse me, Miss Thing, but both of us spent time on that couch"--Blaine Edwards
Chart Hit [Level 6]
Thanks for the link and info. guys....will check it out...
What are people's views about Record World Charts then ?...they had a Disco File column and Top 20 written by Vince Aletti, who was quite in the know regarding DJ plays BITD.
I think Marky is going to review in his Billboard Consensus charts 1976 round up (Hope it is alright to 'Tease' Marky)
Gold Record [Level 7]
I thought that was interesting also... but if you look closer... some of those songs were in top 10 for 6 weeks or more.. lots of congestion in early '75.
Chart Hit [Level 6]
Ah but I noticed this kind of thing in the Cashbox charts from the 70's too. One case that sticks out is where a record by an artist I liked had peaked and was going back down the charts. One week it was like number 55 or so and then the next week it was gone. It seemed incredibly odd to me that a song could fall 45 or more points in one week and be off the chart so quickly. Mind you, I did read somewhere that Cashbox had been charged with chart fixing several times during its lifetime.
Chart Hit [Level 6]
Yes that's correct. It states that on the Cashbox chart site (see link above).
Hmmmm... I wonder if there are any Record World charts on the net?
Actually the whole concept of a top 40 or top 100 chart in today's world is almost redundant I would think what with people going the download route, whether legally or illegally, and the concept of the cd and AM/FM radio format dying.
Chart Hit [Level 6]
thanks, Salsoul1975, for the correct Billboard charting stat for Run, Joey, Run !!! For Halloween 5 years ago, my friend Shannon & I "acted" out the song's story line, and we even added a Julie "ascending" to heaven flourish towards the end !!! Oh, the things you do when you adore 70s music, even the truly, truly bad songs of that decade:icon_twisted:
Chart Hit [Level 6]
If you think their Hot 100 chart was congested in early 1975, the Soul chart was even more congested. In 1975, there were 42 number one songs, which probably had set a record. On the Hot 100, there were 35 number ones, tying 1974's tally. On the Hot 100 from January 11 to April 5, 1975, each week had a new number one song and the top five didn't contain a hodgepodge of new songs. Interestingly enough, during the latter part of the year the length of number ones had increased; "Bad Blood" by Neil Sedaka, "Island Girl" by Elton John and "Fly, Robin, Fly" by Silver Convention all spent three weeks at the top; "Fame" by David Bowie and "That's The Way (I Like It)" by K.C. & The Sunshine Band spent two weeks at #1 (nonconsecutively). "I'm Sorry" by John Denver and "Let's Do It Again" by The Staple Singers were the only songs during that time frame to spend a week at Number One. Plus, there were a plethora of Top 5 songs during the latter half as well: the aforementioned "Run, Joey Run", The Isley Brothers' "Fight The Power", "Miracles" by Jefferson Starship, "Calypso" by John Denver (b-side of "I'm Sorry"), "Ballroom Blitz" by Sweet, "Games People Play" by The Spinners, "Lyin' Eyes" by The Eagles, "Heat Wave" by Linda Ronstadt, "Who Loves You" by The Four Seasons, "The Way I Want To Touch You" by The Captain & Tennille and "Sky High" by Jigsaw.
"Everyone knows the real reason why you got that part it was the time you spent on that casting couch"--Antoine Merriwether
"Excuse me, Miss Thing, but both of us spent time on that couch"--Blaine Edwards
Double Platinum Record [Level 9]
*****
It's mind boggling really to see that vast wealth of diverse talent all intermingled and all wrestling for chart positions ... never mind being "The One" to eclipse all others at number one that week .
Side by side on the radio and therefore on the charts : ... Eagles... Diana Ross .. ....Elton John ... Stones ... John Denver ... Aretha .... Carpenters ... Neil Diamond ... Doobies ....various ex-Beatles ... ...
How disco ever snuck in there to edge out so many others is testament to its pre- ordained manifest destiny !!:icon_cool: :icon_cool: :icon_cool:
*****
Baby, take me
high upon a hillside
high up where the stallion
meets the sun
Chart Hit [Level 6]
I did manage to find some Record World charts at index
Triple Platinum Record [Level 10]
Yeah, I think the POP chart is where "favors" were done for record companies by Bill Wardlow of Billboard, as was discussed in another thread. It was sooooo convenient that soooooo many records got at least one week at #1. Everyone got their turn; everyone got the prize--like kid's soccer games today. Everyone gets a "participation ribbon."Keep the record companies happy and they will buy more advertising. right? Ain't that the Amurican way???? :icon_rolleyes::icon_exclaim::icon_redface:
"Lost inside adorable illusion...."
Triple Platinum Record [Level 10]
Sure disco-disc...you can tease it!!!Thanks for the link and info. guys....will check it out...
What are people's views about Record World Charts then ?...they had a Disco File column and Top 20 written by Vince Aletti, who was quite in the know regarding DJ plays BITD.
I think Marky is going to review in his Billboard Consensus charts 1976 round up (Hope it is alright to 'Tease' Marky
"Lost inside adorable illusion...."
Indie Release [Level 4]
I may be wrong but I remember the days when Cash Box was around and always thought it catered more to the R&B crowds where Billboard leaned towards Pop.
Eric
Acetate [Level 1]
Hello,
sorry if my english is not very good!
I have found this forum searching through google for information about differences between Billboard and Cashbox charts.
I'm writing a database with all artists and songs which was in the Billboard chart and now I heard of those concurrented Cash Box charts.
At amazon there are a few books of different Cash Box charts (Pop Singles, Country Singles, Black Contemporary Chart and Post-Modern-Age-chart).
So, I don't know if there is a need in me to buy these books too, because I heard that in the Cash Box charts were some songs which never appeared in the main Billboard charts!
If this are only a few songs, does somebody have a list of all the tunes which was only in the Cash Box but not in the Billboard chart?
Greetings to all from Germany
Indie Release [Level 4]
It's been a year since anyone answered this thread and two since it was started so, I am bubbling it back to the top.
My interest at the moment is collecting all of the #1 R&B songs that charted between 1945-1985. There are some rarities and yes, there were many songs that hit #1 on Cash Box and not on Billboard - and vice versa. I follow the R&B charts more closely than the Pop ones because they influenced Disco more.
Example at hand taken at random is the year 1966. There were almost an equal amount of #1 hits on both R&B carts (roughly 25 songs) but that is where the similarities end. Billboard with its white readers was more into the Motown sound which crossed over into the Pop Charts having 10 to reach #1 while Cash Box only had 5 songs.
More soulful tunes like "When A Man Loves A Woman" by Percy Sledge was at the top spot on Billboard for only 4-weeks while it stayed there for 7-weeks on Cash Box.
And songs like "You Keep Me Hangin' On" by the Supremes was #1 for 4-weeks in Billboard but never even charted that position in Cash Box.
Billboard even dropped the R&B charts late in 1963 but brought them back in early 1965 with no real explanation except the consensus was that too many white artists were reaching the top spots on the R&B charts so felt it was moot to continue them.
Eric
Acetate [Level 1]
Cash Box was THE Only one in the 50' and 60's that we in the radio biz read. It was the bible. Billboard was often used for toliet paper (if we had a copy at all) Trust me on this. the only reason Billboard sustained thru the years was probably it's other stuff...other than top 40 or 100 lists(movie and tv info). Since Cash Box went down...librarys and others began to rely on Billboard to the point that anyone who didn't live the life back then would be left with the impressions I see posted here. as a former PD and DJ in Chicago, Boston, Baltimore, D.C....and other major cities I can personally attest that Billboard was never taken seriously...in the age of real top forty radio. questions on this can be asked at: stanmajor@aol.com
Underground Hit [Level 5]
I seem to remember this also.
When I bought my 45s at STAN's Record Shop or HARMONY's Records in The Bronx (1968-1973) they always went by Cash Box.
Nat from Harmony's said Billboard was fixed and that Cash Box was more realistic (for his business anyway).
Acetate [Level 1]
Cash Box Magazine is back!, and online at www.CashBoxMagazine.com = Here you will find all your past and present Cash Box Charts. Archives that are missing are currently being put into computer format. Most of the archives are up now.
http://cashboxmag.com/the-legendary-cash-box-magazine-charts/ - Spread the word.
The original Cash Box magazine was a weekly coin-machine and music-industry publication from July 1942 through its last issue dated November 16, 1996.From the late ’40s through the early ’60s, Cash Box published both Juke Box and Best Sellers singles charts. This archive currently concentrates exclusively on the latter, since they were more extensive and were the forerunners of the Cash Box Top 100.
The best-seller charts of the mid-’40s through early ’50s usually contained 40 positions. Cash Box combined all currently available recordings of a song into one chart position, with artist and label info listed for each version, alphabetized by label, but with no indication of which version(s) were the biggest sellers. With the issue dated October 13, 1951, the chart increased to 50 positions under the banner “The Nation’s Top 50 Best Selling Records.” At this point, the charts still did not specify which versions were the most popular. In the issue dated October 25, 1952, Cash Box began designating the hit version(s) of each song by placing a star next to the artists’ names.
During the summer of 1956, the banner was changed to read “The Cash Box Top 50 Best Selling Tunes on Records.” The chart was expanded to 60 positions the week of April 13, 1957; to 75 positions the week of June 21, 1958; and finally to the Top 100 the week of September 13, 1958. The Cash Box Top 100 continued to be a sales-based chart until the ’70s, when airplay data began to be incorporated.
In the ’40s and early ’50s, the best-seller charts included columns showing the sales per 1000 singles sold for the current and previous weeks for each title on the chart. In 1955, that information was replaced by columns showing each title’s chart positions for the previous two weeks. It wasn’t until 1976 that Cash Box added a weeks-on-the-chart column. The format for the charts posted here is a hybrid of the mid-’60s Cash Box and Billboardcharts: columns to the right of the artist’s name show the three previous weeks’ chart positions and the total weeks on the chart.
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