Deliverance

**nrgbeat** · January 24th, 2002, 05:25 PM

Is anybody a big fan of the 1972 film "Deliverance"?

I just watched it and wasn't impressed. I guess I'm not a fan of pig squeeling, banjo plucking and watching Ned Beatty get violated by a hillbilly.

**paul** · January 24th, 2002, 05:48 PM

Hi nrgbeat. Yea, I like Deliverance, more so because it is such a quirky movie to me. I often wondered how actors Ned Beatty and Jon Voight felt playing those roles, in the sense that it harmed or helped their careers in retrospect.

**Boodikka** · January 24th, 2002, 06:36 PM

"He sure got a purty mouth, don't he?".....Bill McKinney and Herbert Coward are two of the most frightening film villains ever, largely because you can just imagine what else they must be into. This film is a winner in my book, with its examination of machismo, the violence of rape, and other themes. The "Dueling Banjos" sequence is surreal, touching and almost out of place, almost as if it is from another film.

**jack** · January 25th, 2002, 08:10 AM

I'm not a fan of pig squeeling, banjo plucking and watching Ned Beatty get violated by a hillbilly.

well i am...love the movie..just saw it again about a month ago..the book is also a great read. once those dueling banjos begin i am hooked, and have to watch the entire movie all over again. and burt reynolds...wow,each time i appreciate his performance more and more.

**Rab** · April 1st, 2002, 07:35 PM

Deliverance is designed to "deliver" precisely what straight boys want to see! That "fags" are a potentially dangerous bunch, that in the end will get exactly what they deserve! When the handsome, dashing Burt Reynolds shoots that arrow right through, that terrifying character representing, what scares straight men most, it brings delight to all those straight men, with a sigh of relief. Today, as in 1972 when this film was made "men" are still portrayed as the victimizers, the assailants, the perpetrators, etc. So, it brings some relief to finally see the "straight man" as the "victim" and not the victimizer. And what better way to show this victimization than by showing society's main "villain" the male queer into action, doing what all straight men secretly (irrationally) fear. This is probably the only time you will ever see a nelly, queer in the agressive role....when in the end, the straight boy can once again triumph victoriously, and then some. While straight boys may be portrayed negetively more often than women in general, they are also portrayed more often as hero's. Something no Hollywood movie will ever allow the queer male to be seen as. Unfortunately, people don't realize, that in reality rape is very rare within the gay community...and when same sex rape does occur it is usually within the confines of a prison, where the perpetrator is a straight man. Gay boys don't usually ever have to worry about getting sex in jail the way the movie industry wants you to believe ("Shawshenk Redemption", with Tim Robbins). So, while some of you maybe thinking this is "overreacting", Deliverance is precisely what helped motivate many straight boys to commit acts of violence against gay men 30 years ago. There have been over 150 murders of gay men since the Matthew Sheppard case that have not received any news coverage. And I have yet to hear a story about some straight boy that was "stalked" by some guy looking for gay sex....

[ This Message was edited by: Rab on 2002-04-02 11:57 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Rab on 2002-04-22 18:40 ]

**Jeff H** · April 2nd, 2002, 08:51 AM

YOU GO, Rab!!

It's nice to read such a well thought-out and thought-provoking post. (And you're taking some of the pressure off other gay loudmouths like me and Marky!)

Oops! I guess now we'll be hearing from that other member who wishes we'd keep our "preferences" to ourselves.

**NickNack** · April 5th, 2002, 03:36 PM

Hi Rab,

I agree with most of everything you said, especially Hollywood's version of gays as 'villan'. Now, granted, it's been years since I've seen this movie and I've never read the book but, for whatever reason, I never considered these villans to be gay. DISTURBED, truly. But not gay AND disturbed. Have I forgotten a key element somewhere? Was this part of their character makeup? I honestly took the rape as "Hillbilly Country" bullshit. You know, farmboys...in-breeding...out in the middle of nowhere...any hole will do. It was just scarier because these two were psychotic.

Can you or someone tell me were these guys written as gay characters in the book or the movie?

**markydefad** · April 5th, 2002, 03:47 PM

Nicky,

You totally expressed my thoughts on this subject. I never equated those guys as being gay--just psychotic hillbillys looking to cornhole somethin'. Again like you, I haven't seen the movie in a looong time--but I guess there may have been a more underlying implication of homosexuality threatening straight males, but if it was there, it flew right over my head.

**Rab** · April 7th, 2002, 03:56 PM

To the person with some education on the matter that point is clear. Perhaps, more so to someone who lives in urban New Jersey or Los Angeles as both of you do. But clearly, the average heterosexual person is not going to take the time to figure that out; especially if they live out in the country-side, in rural America somewhere, or swear they've never even met a gay person, etc. People are going to identify the gender a rapist prefers with his sexual orientation. Is one really that naive to believe one's sexual orientation cannot be "implied"?

Using imagery has been an artform Hollywood has always used. For example Jean-Claude Van Damme discussed in an interview he did for a Boston gay rag about 7 or 8 years ago, a last minute change he made per his request to his movie "Lionheart". This scene was when Jean is approached for a fight in a parking lot. Before the fight, the challenger approaches Jean and states, "You know, you are so pretty, I don't know whether to fight you, or kiss you?" This comment was intended to justify a powerful kick to the challengers groin, humiliating the challenger before he even had a chance. Jean doesn't even break a sweat, giving the challenger a look that clearly stated, "You know.....you should be a little more careful who you make a comment like that to", and walks away laughing, with the crowd laughing at the disgraced challenger as he convulses on the ground in agony. Clearly, the challenger could have been straight, but the implication is clear, and the scene delivers to the audience what the "straight male" majority would prefer to see. In every other fight Jean participates in (in every movie), his defeated opponent always looses with at least some dignity, and of course, without even a subliminal pass being made.

Now, if gay boys had there way, the scene in Deliverence would have had Burt Reynolds squeeling like a pig, instead of Ned Beatty, with the crossbow deleted. In this case I would bet almost every gay boy would probably have his own personal copy of Deliverance, including myself...

[ This Message was edited by: Rab on 2002-04-08 12:55 ]

**NickNack** · April 7th, 2002, 07:16 PM

Point taken. I've used similar arguments when working on a corporate "Diversity" council.

**StuckIn1979** · March 17th, 2003, 05:47 PM

The movie the "Celluloid Closet" is an excellent documentary discussing Hollywood's negative portrayal of gays in the movie industry. I think Deliverance should have been added to its collection

**paul** · March 19th, 2003, 02:06 AM

Hey StuckIn1979. Are you referring to the famous squeal like a pig scene. For some reason I never viewed those mountain people as gay so much as I viewed them as well, hillbillies. They would just as soon put it to a person regardless of sex as they would the closest farm animal.

**StuckIn1979** · March 19th, 2003, 07:40 PM

Originally Written by paul

For some reason I never viewed those mountain people as gay so much as I viewed them as well, hillbillies. They would just as soon put it to a person regardless of sex as they would the closest farm animal.

Did you read the other responses, particularly the second one from Rab?

**paul** · March 20th, 2003, 01:53 AM

Originally Written by StuckIn1979

Originally Written by paul

For some reason I never viewed those mountain people as gay so much as I viewed them as well, hillbillies. They would just as soon put it to a person regardless of sex as they would the closest farm animal.

Did you read the other responses, particularly the second one from Rab?

I can dig where you're coming from now that I've read or perhaps reread the prior posts. I guess my sentiments echo those of Nicky's. As a straight man though, the biggest "gay fear" is the being somebody's bitch in the big house. Anyway, I can appreciate arguments that focus on the subtle imagery and undertones in movies and other media. As an African-American, I used to frequently debate racial imagery and undertones in "The Color Purple."

**JussiK** · March 21st, 2003, 03:41 AM

Just curious...what did you gay guys think of recent THE TRANSPORTER, then? That Luc Besson-produced film starring Jason Streatham was the most thin-veiled totally gay movie I've ever seen and many critics have agreed. Who kicked who's ass and what were the implications?

**Boodikka** · April 12th, 2003, 03:09 PM

Here's a bit of scary trivia that I've just learned recently: when the director told Coward ("purty mouth") about what he had to do in the infamous rape scene, Coward calmly responded "Well....I done worse".

Uuuuggggh.

**jack** · April 15th, 2003, 12:27 PM

Originally Written by JussiK

Just curious...what did you gay guys think of recent THE TRANSPORTER, then? That Luc Besson-produced film starring Jason Streatham was the most thin-veiled totally gay movie I've ever seen and many critics have agreed. Who kicked who's ass and what were the implications?

the movie was a real bommb in the usa..i saw the last half of it on a BA flight from london a month or so ago..man o man, u are so right about it being " totally gay" .....half naked muscle men with shaved heads wrestling....oops, someone spilled the oil drum { for REAL ! } and then they slip and slide all over each other...to the point where Jason kisses a dead man under water to suck out his breath..sounds ridiculous but it sure was HOT ! and it is coming out to blockbuster on April 24th here....can't wait !

**keefelc** · April 15th, 2003, 08:55 PM

Wow! Finally, something of substance to read on the board. It's been awhile even though the topic doesn't have anything to do with disco. Good points about Deliverance folks. I would like to agree with Nicky, Mark and Paul that they were just deranged "hillbillies". However, is that just wishful thinking? Rab's points are very well presented.

**Mixmachine** · April 16th, 2003, 11:47 PM

This movie has nothing to do with gays, this is strictly a ìBuddyî movie and the dark secrets they are forced to keep among themselves after the horrendous ordeal they experienced, murder, rape, lying, mistrust, embarrassment, humiliation, guilt, (leaving loved ones behind), are all part of the emotional rollercoaster this great movie puts you through,, if anyone sees an anti-gay conspiracy here may be they need to see the movie again.

ìDeliverance is designed to "deliver" precisely what straight boys want to see! That "fags" are a potentially dangerous bunch, that in the end will get exactly what they deserve! When the handsome, dashing Burt Reynolds shoots that arrow right throughÖ..î

If any one is perceived to be gay in this movie it would be Ned Beatyís character not the Hillbillies, thatís why they raped him!!!!, and thatís why he (Ned Beatty) wants to keep the incident a secret!!!! Got it ????

**nrgbeat** · April 17th, 2003, 06:39 AM

So if a straight guy got raped by a bunch of in-bred hillbillies, he wouldn't want to keep it a secret? :(

Mixmachine, I don't follow your reasoning.

**NickNack** · April 17th, 2003, 04:50 PM

Originally Written by Mixmachine

If any one is perceived to be gay in this movie it would be Ned Beatyís character not the Hillbillies, thatís why they raped him!!!!, and thatís why he (Ned Beatty) wants to keep the incident a secret!!!! Got it ????

Hi Mix,

You've confused me just a little bit here. Does he want the secret kept because it was rape or because he doesn't want to be perceived as gay? Or, are you saying straight men don't get raped?

I agree, the movie raises complex issues and like I said, I never considered the 'gay' angle until it was raised in this discussion. Really interested now on your take, just as Rab made me sit back and reconsider my view points.

**Mixmachine** · April 21st, 2003, 10:11 PM

Nick, I donít believe this movie has any gay characters in it, but one canít argue that Ned Bettyís character is the wimpy ,weakling, city looking type, and probably the reason behind why heís chosen for the special treatment,( no accident why he was cast ) In my take he wants to keep it a secret because he was raped and because of his self humiliating un- dignified actions during the rape (squeal like a pig!), also because this incident revealed in front of his friend many hidden weaknesses he much rather kept to himself, his courage, and self respect, on top of his manliness are questionable now; Why did they cast Ned in this roll? Well, because the Hillbilly is psychotic killer that would rape and kill your pet if he could make you suffer, besides it is a stronger more shocking scene when he prays on the weak, vulnerable and the least likely to fight back of the bunch, (a girlfriend would have worked here too, but then it wouldnít be a ëBuddyí movie), the Hillbilly rapes him not because heís looking for sexual satisfaction, but because he is a raving seek maniac on a power trip trying to completely break and humiliate the weak before killing them both, other characters in this movie wouldnít have played well in this scene, (John Void later kills!)) , they just donít look the ëtypeí that would easily summit to rape with out putting up some sort of resistance, (he didnít try to rape John afterward! he was just going to kill him!) Burtís character is coming to the rescue of his friends victimized by two brutal killers, thatís all, if I remember correctly they were in the process of killing John, for all we know Burt probably didnít even see the rape, of course, Rab is free to interpret this scene in other ways according to his angle, but I just donít see any ìHollywood conspiracyî at all and Iíve seen this movie many times..

**Outsider** · May 27th, 2003, 11:35 AM

I recently saw this movie, and those hillbillies weren't gay, they were just plain psycho. They would have fucked anything: man, woman, or animal. They would have told a pig to "squeal like a pig". But the reason they raped Ned Beatty was to humiliate him in front of his friend (Jon Voight), and also to punish both of them for being in that area in the first place. That river was no place for city slickers (and they were warned). If the main characters had brought a dog with them, guess who would have been raped then? That's a no-brainer. Believe me, there is no gay theme in this movie whatsoever. :evil: