Donna Summer - Heaven Knows...

[karlos1964]

Haven't been on here in such a long time I'd forgotten my password!
Looking for some help from the collective brains here.

Was "Heaven Knows" by Donna Summer ever released on 12 inch and, if not, do any of her LP's or CD's feature an extended mix of this song?
Just played Macarthur park suite and the heaven knows bit is far too short in my opinion!!
Thanks for your help!.
Karlos

[BrunoRepublic]

Haven't been on here in such a long time I'd forgotten my password!
Looking for some help from the collective brains here.

Was "Heaven Knows" by Donna Summer ever released on 12 inch and, if not, do any of her LP's or CD's feature an extended mix of this song?
Just played Macarthur park suite and the heaven knows bit is far too short in my opinion!!
Thanks for your help!.
Karlos

The 12" mix of "MacArthur Park" (found on the current Deluxe Edition of Bad Girls) has a longer version of "Heaven Knows" than the original LP version (originally on Live And More, now found on The Dance Collection). It's also a slightly different mix. "One Of A Kind" was shortened on the 12" to make room for the longer version of "Heaven Knows".

AFAIK, the song was never released on its own as a 12"... having said that, I have a compilation titled Disco Nights Vol. 1: Divas of Dance that contains a version that is just shy of six minutes, and features a very short string intro. I don't know where this version came from, but it appears to be simply a re-edit of the 7" version.

[karlos1964]

Graham,
Many thanks for your speedy reply.
Dug a little deeper on Google and this gets far more interesting than I ever imagined (with apologies to those who already know this)..
Apparently the Brooklyn Dreams version (where BD sing lead vocals and Donna does background, as opposed to Donna's version where she of course does lead and Brooklyn Dreams sing background) was put out on 12 inch with a running time of 6:45 but can I find a copy for sale anywhere..no.!!! The version on their LP is only 3 1/2 mins or thereabouts....
Does anyone know about this..?
In the meantime I've ordered the CD on Amazon....

[STEPHEN L FREEMAN]

I dunno about that Brooklyn Dreams 12". Unless you see a scan, or catalogue number, treat it as a rumour. I know Bruce Sudano fairly well and it's never come-up in conversation. Otherwise...

The single version of Heaven Knows, was a remix.

The full version of that remix (albeit not much longer) was spliced into the MacArthur's Park medley for the 12" release. (The change in EQ is really obvious when it starts. As well as, when it cuts back into MacArthur's Park.) I don't know about One Of A Kind being made shorter for the 12"... It sounds the same to me. Though I've never laid them on top of eachother, so I can't say for certain. But you can't go by the times listed on the different pressings, 'cause at least one of them is inaccurate. (The 12", should read 14:47, and the LP is 14:33, I think. But don't hold a gun to my head on that one.)

On "Donna Summer - the Dance Collection", it's listed as the 12" version of MacArthur's Park. But it's not. It's the LP. The same with the CD release. Actually, though it's listed as such on a couple re-releases, I haven't found the 12" version of the MacArthur's Park medley (with the remix of Heaven Knows) anywhere else, but on the actual 12" single - NBD20148.

The Brooklyn Dreams' LP version, with Joe Esposito doing lead, to Donna's response, is the same length as the MacArthur's Park 12", spliced-in mix. Except, of course, it contains the 4-beat string arpeggio lead-in, and the ending fade-out.

There's a mexican 12" version that is a horriffic edit/slasher job! It's got the long version of Dim All The Lights, on the other side and it's on coloured vinyl. But still...Do not waste your money! Even at $10, it'd be a waste of money on a crap quality pressing.

The Hot Tracks/Hot Classics version of Heaven Knows is done very well, by Chris Cox (assisted by moi ) and brings-in the Brooklyn Dreams version, for one verse.

[BrunoRepublic]

I don't know about One Of A Kind being made shorter for the 12"... It sounds the same to me. Though I've never laid them on top of eachother, so I can't say for certain.

Same here, but someone else told me that the 12" has more of "Heaven Knows" and less of "One Of A Kind". I've been meaning to do a detailed comparison, but I never seem to get around to it.

Actually, though it's listed as such on a couple re-releases, I haven't found the 12" version of the MacArthur's Park medley (with the remix of Heaven Knows) anywhere else, but on the actual 12" single - NBD20148.

It's actually been reissued more times than the LP version. It's on both the 2-disc "deluxe edition" of Bad Girls that is currently available, as well as the Casablanca Story 4-CD set (which I assume is OOP now). You can't miss the obvious edit when it goes back into MacArthur Park reprise...

There's a mexican 12" version that is a horriffic edit/slasher job! It's got the long version of Dim All The Lights, on the other side and it's on coloured vinyl. But still...Do not waste your money! Even at $10, it'd be a waste of money on a crap quality pressing.

Hmm... I wonder if that's the version on the compilation I mentioned? 7" intro, and re-edited from there.

[thommy2458]

My absolute favorite version is the Hot Classics mix
Stephen mentioned.In the 80's, a DJ I knew taped a
bootleg mix of a Donna medley that took the
Brooklyn Dreams vocal on one channel and the Donna
vocal on the other channel-so they were singing at the
same time.I've never been able to find it though.

Thom

[BrunoRepublic]

I don't know about One Of A Kind being made shorter for the 12"... It sounds the same to me. Though I've never laid them on top of eachother, so I can't say for certain.

Okay, to sort this out, I've just synced them up, using the following sources:
LP version, from The Dance Collection 830 534-2, German pressing, time 17:47
12" version, from Casablanca Story 314 516 919-2, USA pressing, time 17:36

Note: the LP version was transferred at a very slightly slower speed, so that may account for a few of the extra seconds.

LP version: "One Of A Kind" starts at 8:26.
12" version: "One Of A Kind" starts at 8:25.

Right off the bat, it's apparent that the 12" has some edits, because a few of the instrumental bars are cut out, so that the vocals start at 8:33 instead of 8:40 like on the LP. There are obviously other edits too, because...

LP version: "Heaven Knows" starts at 13:26
12" version: "Heaven Knows" starts at 12:27

LP version: "Reprise" starts at 16:00
12" version "Reprise" starts at 15:46


So, here's the tally
MacArthur Park:
Both LP and 12" versions approx 8:25
One Of A Kind:
LP version: 5:00, 12" version edited to 4:00
Heaven Knows:
LP version: 2:32(!), 12" version remixed and extended to 3:19
Reprise approx 1:47 for both versions

[RobbaDobba]

So, where did that 5:58 version on the Disco Nights Vol. 1: Divas of Dance (and also on another volume down the line...maybe Vol. 7) come from? It's definitely Donna singing lead, not Joe.

[STEPHEN L FREEMAN]

It's actually been reissued more times than the LP version. It's on both the 2-disc "deluxe edition" of Bad Girls that is currently available, as well as the Casablanca Story 4-CD set (which I assume is OOP now). You can't miss the obvious edit when it goes back into MacArthur Park reprise...

I was referring solely to vinyl sources. As a collector, I'm not big on CDs. And the ones I do have, I don't listen to. They're more "library" copies for me.

[STEPHEN L FREEMAN]

Okay, to sort this out, I've just synced them up, using the following sources:
LP version, from The Dance Collection 830 534-2, German pressing, time 17:47
12" version, from Casablanca Story 314 516 919-2, USA pressing, time 17:36

And now for the Analog portion of our program...

I played the original Casablanca/US promo LP on top of the original Casablanca/US promo 12".
(Since they originated from the same 2-track master tapes, they'll flange. But, because they were pressed from different master plates, they'll have that cancel-each-other-out effect, at the very top of the flange. Which I normally hate, but is perfect for today's little experiment, because it signifies a perfect line-up of the grooves.)

Aligned them into flange and it holds-up through MacArthur's Park (with minimal, periodic adjustment), to the start of "One Of A Kind". Then, immediately, I lost the flange. The instrumental section, prior to the 1st verse, is cut in half on the 12" version.

Aligned them back into flange for the 1st verse. Right after the chorus, I lost the flange again. The instrumental part, prior to the 2nd verse, is also cut in half on the 12" version.

Aligned them back into flange for the 2nd verse. At the start of the break, I lose the flange again. The 1st half of the break is cut-out of the 12" version.

I was very surprised that, after all these years, I'd never noticed the difference. But, though I'd always used 2 copies at work (the 2-beat echo trick works wonders on One Of A Kind!), I'd only used matched copies. (Because of Heaven Knows.) And the edits are exceptionally clean. Too bad the same can't be said for the insertion of the Heaven Knows remix.

Anyway... Thanks Graham. I just learned a new piece of Donna trivia!:icon_biggrin:

[karlos1964]

Guys,
Tremendous stuff, many thanks especially to Graham and Stephen for all the trouble they went to in order to educate us further. For my sins I own both the 12 inch of MacArthur Park and the version found on the casablanca CD box set but as I said yesterday the "Heaven Knows" bit is woefully short on both. Can't wait to hear the 5:58 version....
There's a CD box set on sale on E-Bay at the moment of extended mixes of many tunes and one of the tracks on CD7 (it's a 14CD set and starting price is $149..!) is Heaven Knows by Donna Summer with a credited running time of 6:41 so haven't a clue what version that is....

[Zef]

Crikey that's really amazing. I wonder why they bothered with such chopping and changing.

[BrunoRepublic]

Crikey that's really amazing. I wonder why they bothered with such chopping and changing.

Probably because they later realized that "Heaven Knows" is a much better song than "One Of A Kind".

"One Of A Kind" is not bad, but made better as sort of a "breather" between the highs of "MacArthur Park" and "Heaven Knows", but five minutes is a bit much. I think it flows better at 4 minutes.

[SandraDee]

Heaven Knows by Donna Summer with a credited running time of 6:41 so haven't a clue what version that is....

It'll be the version on the 'D.J.Pix Disco Nights volume 7' compilation CD I would think 'cos that's 6.45 on my copy. I actually prefer the standard 7" version 'cos this extended version just repeats bits & it just isn't as concise IMO.

[RobbaDobba]

So, where did that 5:58 version on the Disco Nights Vol. 1: Divas of Dance (and also on another volume down the line...maybe Vol. 7) come from? It's definitely Donna singing lead, not Joe.

It'll be the version on the 'D.J.Pix Disco Nights volume 7' compilation CD I would think 'cos that's 6.45 on my copy. I actually prefer the standard 7" version 'cos this extended version just repeats bits & it just isn't as concise IMO.

So, again...where did these versions COME FROM? I've never seen them on vinyl before.

[SandraDee]

So, again...where did these versions COME FROM? I've never seen them on vinyl before.

I'm just guessing here but maybe Rebound records who did both those CD compilations lengthened it by just editing in repeated bits of verse & chorus, 'cos that's all it is at the end of the day, not a remix as such.

[needlefingers]

So, again...where did these versions COME FROM? I've never seen them on vinyl before.

Where did they come from? Heaven Knows.:icon_rolleyes:

(Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

[SandraDee]

Where did they come from? Heaven Knows.:icon_rolleyes:

[totouk]

I have the Divas of Dance CD and, although I haven't played it for a while, my recollection on hearing Heaven Knows was that one of the verses only features Donna and Brooklyn Dreams has been wiped out but then the verse is repeated later as a duet (or the other way around). I recall thinking it was a mix I was never aware of.

They did the same with Last Dance making it just under 6 minutes by using the On The Radio mix and inserting the instrumental section from the original long mix instead of the short 7inch edit.

toto

[RobbaDobba]

I just never imagined that they'd do their own exclusive edits on a budget compilation series. Go figure...

You are correct, the first verse was Donna solo, and I'd never heard that before as well.

[EricHG23]

The 12" mix of "MacArthur Park" (found on the current Deluxe Edition of Bad Girls) has a longer version of "Heaven Knows" than the original LP version (originally on Live And More, now found on The Dance Collection). It's also a slightly different mix. "One Of A Kind" was shortened on the 12" to make room for the longer version of "Heaven Knows".

Right that came out later when Heaven Knows became a huge hit--so they shoehorned the full Heaven Knows in. I hate it--the mix is way less subtle--and I hate that this version now is easier to find than the original, which is only on the unremastered Dance Collection CD. Yes Heaven Knows is better than One of a Kind, but the flow is awful.

Wasn't that long Heaven Knows that has just DOnna's vocals for a bit presse din Mexico in the 70s? did I imagine that? They use the Brooklyn Dreams version (with Donna on backup) for some bits I think

[karlos1964]

Many thanks to the collective brains on this forum. I now have 2 CD's on order, one containing a 5:58 version of "Heaven Knows" and one containing a 6:45 version of "Heaven Knows". It will be interesting to see how they both shape up and what the differences are between the 2 versions. As an old vinyl lover still wish there had been a 12 inch single but at least I can listen to a longer version on my I Pod.

[EricHG23]

Heaven Knows
LP version: 2:32(!), 12" version remixed and extended to 3:19
Reprise approx 1:47 for both versions

Not to make things more confusing but I alwasy wondered this. Maybe no one knows anyway, but was Heaven Knows originally written specifically for Mac Park Suite, or was it written and floating around for a while when they decided to release it as part of the suite?

And am I the only one who find the "album version" of Mac Park Suite flows so much better? I adore Hevaen Knows but if I'm playing the Suite I nearly always go for the original.

E