Andrea True Connection / Gloria Gaynor: complete albums on cd, ever?

[Westwood]

Hey guys,
I don't have any albums or singles by Andrea True, I only thought More More More was worth having and I have that on several comps, however after loving Party Line on youtube, I am sure I want to get her first, if not second, album. I think I had read somewhere they were both put on cd? Is that true, what cd was this (title, country etc) and was it album versions?
Same applies for Gloria, I only have the Very Best of in the red sleeve and it doesn't include many tracks I recently began to like (Anybody Wanna Party can't get it out of my head now). I am pretty sure it's a no, but have her albums ever been put on cd?
Why is it that so many of those superfamous and active women in music have almost no complete albums issued on cd??

I know Motown is a big one of them, and is VERY slowly issuing those, but aside from Miss Ross, the rest only got a single set of twofers and nothing after that. Gloria Gaynor seems to have had several albums full of great tracks.

Thanks for the info

[BrunoRepublic]

Years ago, Unidisc put out a compilation that claimed to feature her first two albums, but in fact only had the first ("More, More, More") plus three tracks from the second ("White Witch"), one of which is an extended version that does not appear to have been released before. This CD is unfortunately long out of print.

"More, More, More" was written and produced by Gregg Diamond and is brilliant. It has only five songs, but they're all great.

But "White Witch" is a *terrible* album IMHO, aside from the two singles. Most of it is not disco but really bad attempts at rock and faux reggae.

[FunkyChris]

Unidisc put out her album "I Am What I Am" on cd.
Well, is this actually a real album? I found that on vinyl at a local record store, but cannot find any information about it on discogs or discomusic.com.

[Westwood]

Years ago, Unidisc put out a compilation that claimed to feature her first two albums, but in fact only had the first ("More, More, More") plus three tracks from the second ("White Witch"), one of which is an extended version that does not appear to have been released before. This CD is unfortunately long out of print.

"More, More, More" was written and produced by Gregg Diamond and is brilliant. It has only five songs, but they're all great.

But "White Witch" is a *terrible* album IMHO, aside from the two singles. Most of it is not disco but really bad attempts at rock and faux reggae.

I have one, if not more, Gregg Diamond (Boogie something...) tracks on compilations and I have already decided myself as well that he's one to watch out for :) thanks Graham. Any acts I should look out for that were produced by him?

I just finally got the Patrick Adams Master of Masterpiece vol.1 and love it, I had NO idea he was behind the Ladybug song and totally explains why the 12" for this goes for hundreds on ebay and after hearing the (hilarious and great) mix on the cd I understand why! Is there a compilation of this kind for Gregg too?

What's the best cd (for quality and selection) to get for Andrea True Connection if I can't find the Unidisc one (and is there a page with details on that one, in case the auction i may find doesn't list the label)?

[rhessel]

Hi:

What about this one from Gloria Gaynor? A japanese release:



Experience Gloria Gaynor: Gloria Gaynor: Music - Amazon-U.S. | Amazon-U.K.

Cheers,

Hessel

[BrunoRepublic]

The Unidisc one is titled "The best of Andrea True Connection" and the catalog # is SPLK-7004. It was released in the early 90s. I found mine around 1999, but I haven't seen another copy since then (and I'm not likely to now, given that record stores are vanishing here). It claims to have "2 hit albums" and shows pictures of both her first two albums.

Tracklisting is as follows:
1. Party Line
2. Keep It Up Longer
3. More, More, More
4. Fill Me Up (Heart To Heart)
5. Call Me
6. What's Your Name, What's Your Number
7. It's All Up To You [this is much longer than the LP version but I can find no record of it ever being released as a single, so I have no idea where they got this]
8. N.Y. You Got Me Dancing

The first five tracks are the "More, More, More" LP in full. The other three are from "White Witch". "What's Your Name" and "NY You Got Me Dancing" were released as singles, but the 12" versions are the same as the LP.

I've seen other Andrea True compilations but I've never owned them, so I can't comment on sound quality or track selection.

The only Gregg Diamond compilation that I know of is "Gregg Diamond's Discotech" on Pulsar. This CD is a total waste of money; many of the songs are from VERY bad needle-drops and you're better off just listening to the original vinyl.

[BrunoRepublic]

Hi:

What about this one from Gloria Gaynor? A japanese release:

Looks nice, but $70?!

[Westwood]

Thanks Graham, will try to find that one then.
Oh yeah, I saw the price for the Gloria cd too, lol.

[Westwood]

LOL oh my, I have just been given a double album of Gloria Gaynor songs, all re-recordings! Why do they do that? You know they're not gonna be any better than the originals. I mean, aside from SOME re-recordings in a different style which may work, why why why?

[Disco Funk]

7. It's All Up To You [this is much longer than the LP version but I can find no record of it ever being released as a single, so I have no idea where they got this]

I think it was Donald Cleveland who said that Unidisc used Tom Moulton to at least remaster the Salsoul Unidisc material. Perhaps they also used him to master the Buddha stuff? The version of Hold Back The Night on the Unidisc Zing release is also longer than anything released, going right up to the end of the vocal take. And their 12" vinyl release of Lady Bug by Bumblebee Unlimited is a mix that I haven't found on any of the original RCA/Red Greg pressings.

Disco Funk

[BrunoRepublic]

LOL oh my, I have just been given a double album of Gloria Gaynor songs, all re-recordings! Why do they do that? You know they're not gonna be any better than the originals. I mean, aside from SOME re-recordings in a different style which may work, why why why?

These CDs are usually found in the $4 bins at Wal-Mart. The answer is: money. The artist actually gets paid for re-recording them.

[Westwood]

It's sad though Graham, no? An artist of such fame falling to the level of re-recording cheap knock-offs of her original hits. I mean, they are nowhere near as bad as the Supremes stuff done by that group with only one maybe-70sSupreme in the group, but still, it's sad to see that they have to resort to this. What other artists have done this? I remember reading The Three Degrees did, and Sinitta, although she's not disco, and I read that the reason for her re-recording was that the original masters were lost in a fire (but still, lots of her stuff is at least on cd, surely one can do something decent with that rather than re-recording, which always falls into a sub-standard level of quality?

[needlefingers]

I think you are missing some points here Westwood. When they recorded someone else's song, the producers, record labels, publishers and songwriters are the ones making the money off of that original recording.

A recording artist is only good for what their contract said i.e. number of units sold, plus reimbursment for recording/studio time, etc.

Once their label dropped them, they have no ties to the original recording. That is, unless they have any share(known as points) of the recording.

And if they wanted to make a "greatest hits" package, they would have to pay for a merchandise license to include that recording, which the owners of the recording can set at any price they want, per song. Not to mention that the publisher and songwriter get a royalty for each song sold in that package.

And if the original recording was requested, all the parties of ownership would have to agree. And that can hold things up

Now an artist, like Gloria Gaynor, who has many hits but none that she wrote, would find these costs unbearable.

By re-recording the tracks, they only have to pay a "mechanical license". That is, they only pay the royalty to the publisher/songwriter (usually around 8 cents per track for each sold) and can recoup more money from the sale of the total CD, minus publicity, distribution and production costs.

Production costs are cheaper, because they usually re-record it on a computer.

So, if they did not write the song, or work out a publishing deal, they really have no access to the original recording unless some kind of deal can be worked out to their advantage.

But artists, like Donna Summer and Madonna, that have songwriting credits to most of their material, are more in line to profit from a re-release of their original recording. They recieve the royalty and a part of the CD package sales.

[Westwood]

That's very interesting, I knew some of it, assumed some of it, and well, the rest, I guess, unless you actually know the contract of said singer, you can never really know for sure.
Can I ask if you know for a fact this is how it usually works (or worked) or it's just gathered information and theories spread around? It's one of the first time I actually read all this in the same place etc.

Still, I wonder, how much a collection of this kind sells, is it worth (this is my personal opinion) kinda "degrading" yourself for that little money (the quality of the material is definitley not as stellar as the original productions)? Isn't it better to try and do something else? How hard is it to produce this kind of compilation? I mean, unless it is noted in a big font that there are re-recordings and they are sure to disappoint whoever thought was buying the real thing, why not try and do a different concept album and raise the bar?
After all, it's kinda like, forgive the lack of a better word, "tricking" the buyer into buying this which is not what they were expecting?
I asked about the costs because, I mean come on, with all the struggling artists and musicians around, can it cost THAT much more to look for someone and try and re-record these songs with a more professional sound or style? These sound worse than the SAW recordings that didn't stand the test of time (some of them I think aged really badly).
You know what I mean?
Someone of the stature of Gloria Gaynor should have no problem even having someone working for free with her and do it?
It could be an indie kinda album, an acoustic one etc?
I mean, you don't even have to write melodies or word, you basically have to cover songs in another style or with different machinery, surely someone who knows their hand around synths and stuff can make something better? Or is it really hard?
I'm actually asking here, I'm not saying this bitterly in a bitchy way etc :)

About the "points" scheme, again are all contracts like this? Don't you think there could be secret clauses or non-standard clauses that say something like the singer does get a percentage anyway, kinda like for example, Bette Davis (I think I remember reading) stipulated she't get a percentage off What Ever Happened To Baby Jane instead of a big salary for her role. Ok Gloria was not Bette Davis, and she was starting out while Bette was, well, pretty much down and out before WEHTBJ, but still Bette Davis.

Also, I'm trying to think who else did these kind of re-recordings, and I'm sure there's many artists who had no hand in writing the songs and don't re-record their hits. Why do you think so few do it?

PS: Gloria's Can't Take My Eyes Off You sounds sounds like it's in that re-recorded sound vein, although a bit better. Was it a proper first recording?

[BrunoRepublic]

Still, I wonder, how much a collection of this kind sells, is it worth (this is my personal opinion) kinda "degrading" yourself for that little money (the quality of the material is definitley not as stellar as the original productions)?

I don't know the exact terms (and they probably vary) but I would assume that these artists generally get approached by the companies that put out this stuff, and are paid a decent one-time fee for a quick performance. For the artist, it would be easy money for a day's work. Very handy if they're having money problems, they can't pull together a tour, and their old record label doesn't feel like paying them that year or has pulled all their records out of print.

Isn't it better to try and do something else?

Artistically yes, but sometimes artists *need* money and have to do whatever gigs they can get, so to speak.

How hard is it to produce this kind of compilation?

The couple that I've heard sound like they were recorded over a weekend.

I mean, unless it is noted in a big font that there are re-recordings and they are sure to disappoint whoever thought was buying the real thing, why not try and do a different concept album and raise the bar?

Sometimes you do things you don't like to get the bills paid.

After all, it's kinda like, forgive the lack of a better word, "tricking" the buyer into buying this which is not what they were expecting?

Perhaps, but most Wal-Mart shoppers are not exactly discriminating connoisseurs of music. This at least gets the artist's name back in the public eye.

I asked about the costs because, I mean come on, with all the struggling artists and musicians around, can it cost THAT much more to look for someone and try and re-record these songs with a more professional sound or style?

The cost of recording an album has dropped a lot, but getting a good record deal is harder than ever before. So it's a big expense to come from one's own pocket. Sure they could do something new and unproven, but there'd be nobody to distribute it or support it.

Someone of the stature of Gloria Gaynor should have no problem even having someone working for free with her and do it?

The "stature of Gloria Gaynor"?! To 99% of the world, she was a one-hit wonder who dropped off the face of the earth in 1980. Remixes of IWS aside, she hasn't had a hit in 25 years. Few people remember her at all. A lot of people assume that "I Will Survive" was recorded by that "Donna Summers" woman... all disco sounds the same, right?

We here know about GG's legacy, but the rest of the world doesn't, and doesn't care.

About the "points" scheme, again are all contracts like this?

The one fairly consistent thing about the music industry is that there is no accountability. Even if an artist has a good contract (which is rare), they often have to sue to get the label to honour it.

Also, I'm trying to think who else did these kind of re-recordings, and I'm sure there's many artists who had no hand in writing the songs and don't re-record their hits. Why do you think so few do it?

I would imagine that many do not get approached, or they aren't desperate enough. The Village People wanted to, but Henri Belolo (who owns the name and the catalog) refused to allow them to do so.

[Westwood]

How do you multi-quote a post?? hehe, anyway, thanks Graham, for shedding light on this.
Basically what you said says it all: "I would assume that these artists generally get approached by the companies that put out this stuff, and are paid a decent one-time fee for a quick performance". It would answer all the questions I was asking myself.

The only other thing I thought was, well, honestly I have never witnessed anyone in person or on paper/net not knowing who sang I Will Survive, much less thinking it was a Donna Summer lollll :)
But that said, there are I think, more than enough connoisseurs in the world to know Gloria's catalogue and some of them are bound to be musicians or producers.
I know that, as unbelievably sad as it is, being a musician or producer (or someone even higher in the ladder of the music BUSINESS) doesn't mean he/she knows anything about music other than his/hers (sometimes I bet not even that!).
That said, more and more with the internet, forums and the likes, it appears the niches or people in-the-know aren't that few, don't you think?

And it's funny that you mentioned the Walmart comment, because while I am now listening to most of the tracks on this compilation, I was thinking that people who do not know better, those who consider music just as something to put on while ironing or doing chores etc., would probably like this and not find anything wrong with it. Ok the image I have is clueless housewives who see the cd in the sale bin and pick it up.
That said again, this compilation here includes several covers of non-disco songs that actually sound more professional, while it's only the re-recordings of her own songs that sound so cheap. Do you know when she did any of these?

[Mr.Ree]

I have one, if not more, Gregg Diamond (Boogie something...) tracks on compilations and I have already decided myself as well that he's one to watch out for :) thanks Graham. Any acts I should look out for that were produced by him?

I just finally got the Patrick Adams Master of Masterpiece vol.1 and love it, I had NO idea he was behind the Ladybug song and totally explains why the 12" for this goes for hundreds on ebay and after hearing the (hilarious and great) mix on the cd I understand why! Is there a compilation of this kind for Gregg too?

What's the best cd (for quality and selection) to get for Andrea True Connection if I can't find the Unidisc one (and is there a page with details on that one, in case the auction i may find doesn't list the label)?

my favorite producer changes depending on my mood but Gregg Diamond has been in the top 5 for decades. People run down his work with George McCrae but I love it. I consider the "More More More" and "Starcruiser" albums to be his high points but the Bionic Boogie albums are not far behind. I also like the album he did with Gloria Gaynor. Only his "Hardware" project hasn't made an impression on me yet. I'm sure he would have developed into one of the greatest producers ever, if he'd stuck around.

[needlefingers]

It’s one of many ways that works. Having another party produce a “greatest hits” package and giving the artist a flat fee for all the work, as was mentioned, is one way also.

And a contract can say or stipulate anything. ANYTHING!

You have asked a lot of questions, and I don’t have all the answers, but the laws are so varied and different for each country.

But remember…a contract can say or stipulate anything. ANYTHING!

And I don’t think Gloria Gaynor would ever think she was degrading herself. I have seen her perform a number of times, and she always sang I Will Survive. I am willing to bet that at least nine out of the ten times she is hired, it is to sing that song. So there is one, if not the largest part of her income.

And if someone offered her a deal, which was worth it for her, I am sure she would take it.

But you can’t sing something new if no one is asking for it. Or paying for it.

While I think Ms. Gaynor would do best to speak for herself, she has to consider what is to her benefit and of course, consider economics. In other words, she’s just like you and me. And it’s not like she didn’t tell us; she does survive.

Points are complicated, can be any fraction, thereof, here to, yada, yada, yada. It’s all legal mumbo jumbo. The recording engineer can have points. If it’s in his contract!

And a contract can say anything.

And those were the two points I was trying to make.

Our favorite artists are people too.

And they go where the work or business takes them.

[Westwood]

Hmmm hehe, I can imagine Stephen would love seeing someone speak for Gloria ;) (I asked questions of what she would feel... you're the one who replied ;))

Anyway, got your point, but not really. I mean, ok you say a contract ca say ANYTHING, I agree, but are you saying in a "but it doesn't mean it's carried out" vein like Graham said? And yes she's people too as in "she's gotta eat", but she's, I think/hope, other kind of people, those in the cutthroat entertainment business, who are always painted out to have thieves who make sure they do the right business move.
I think there's a topic for a new tv show, musicians getting ripped off in the music world? Or has it been done already?

Oh I forgot to say something in my reply to Graham: Cybill Sheridan (Cybill Shepherd's character in her Cybill sitcom from 1995-99ish) did just what you wrote lol, those awful corny and cheesy commercials and shows in the openers of almost each episode :)

[BrunoRepublic]

Nope... I got rid of the disc I had after a couple of listens.

Anyway, as for Gloria Gaynor, I recall reading an interview with her where she was asked what advice she had for anyone who wanted to be a singer. Her response was that they needed to learn everything they could about the business.

[kdavid13]

Hey guys,
I don't have any albums or singles by Andrea True, I only thought More More More was worth having and I have that on several comps, however after loving Party Line on youtube, I am sure I want to get her first, if not second, album. I think I had read somewhere they were both put on cd? Is that true, what cd was this (title, country etc) and was it album versions?

I recently bought 2 ANDREA TRUE CONNECTION CDs in the course of the same weekend.I bought the 1st one but was turned off by the 7in mixes used.

Anyway both are from BMG and feature original recordings.

The first is called MORE,MORE,MORE : THE BEST OF ANDREA TRUE CONNECTION [Yellow jacket and it retailed for $5]
1-MORE,MORE,MORE 3'12
2-PARTY LINE 3'28
3-N.Y. YOU GOT ME DANCING 3'40
4-WHAT'S YOUR NAME,WHAT'S YOUR NUMBER 3'52
5-SALLY CAN'T DANCE 3'09
6-KEEP IT LONGER 4'36
7-WHITE WITCH 3'20
8-CALL ME 3'17
9-LIFE IS WHAT YOU MAKE IT 3'23
10-IT'S ALL UP TO YOU 3'05

The 2nd is way better and has the BMG/BUDDAH/CAMDEN logos

It is called ANDREA TRUE CONNECTION More More More [Black jacket]
1-MORE,MORE,MORE 6'15
2-WHAT'S YOUR NAME,WHAT'S YOUR NUMBER 3'17
3-YOU MAKE LOVE WORTHWHILE 4'31
4-LIFE IS WHAT YOU MAKE IT 3'18
5-IT'S ALL UP TO YOU 3'01
6-N.Y. YOU GOT ME DANCING 6'01
7-WHITE WITCH 3'16
8-SALLY CAN'T DANCE 3'02
9-PARTY LINE 3'45
10-FILL ME UP [HEART TO HEART] 3'38
11-CALL ME 7'28
12-KEEP IT UP LONGER 4'36
13-WHAT'S YOUR NAME,WHAT'S YOUR NUMBER [Extended] 6'33
14-PARTY LINE [Extended] 6'46
15-FILL ME UP [HEART TO HEART] 10'22

5 tracks from MORE MORE MORE Lp
7 tracks from WHITE WITCH Lp + the extended Lp mixes.

[Westwood]

Thanks Kris, we have a winner (#2) :)

[BrunoRepublic]

13-WHAT'S YOUR NAME,WHAT'S YOUR NUMBER [Extended] 6'33
14-PARTY LINE [Extended] 6'46

These aren't extended versions per se, but original LP versions. The only "extended version" of any ATC song that I know of is the one on the Unidisc compilation... and like I said, I have no idea where it came from. It doesn't appear to have been put on any 12" BITD.

I don't have White Witch handy (terrible album IMHO, I never listen to it), but here are the timings for More, More, More (give or take a few seconds, I trimmed the silence off the end of the tracks)

Side one:
Party Line 6'52
Keep It Up Longer 4'36
More, More, More 6'17
Side two:
Fill Me Up (Heart To Heart) 10'23
Call Me 7'26

[kdavid13]

These aren't extended versions per se, but original LP versions. The only "extended version" of any ATC song that I know of is the one on the Unidisc compilation... and like I said, I have no idea where it came from. It doesn't appear to have been put on any 12" BITD.

The reason why they added the "extended" [as opposed to 12in Mix] tag is to distinguish them from the 7in edits they also used on the same disc.

I had the UNIDISC cassette and also couldn't find any info on the 12in mix featured.

Glad to see that they used the whole MMM album on the CD I got though.
WHITE WITCH is indeed a spotty effort - I tend to forget it because I really love WHAT'S YOUR NAME... and N.Y.

[Cory Ander]

Hey guys,
I don't have any albums or singles by Andrea True, I only thought More More More was worth having and I have that on several comps, however after loving Party Line on youtube, I am sure I want to get her first, if not second, album. I think I had read somewhere they were both put on cd? Is that true, what cd was this (title, country etc) and was it album versions?
Same applies for Gloria, I only have the Very Best of in the red sleeve and it doesn't include many tracks I recently began to like (Anybody Wanna Party can't get it out of my head now). I am pretty sure it's a no, but have her albums ever been put on cd?
Why is it that so many of those superfamous and active women in music have almost no complete albums issued on cd??

I know Motown is a big one of them, and is VERY slowly issuing those, but aside from Miss Ross, the rest only got a single set of twofers and nothing after that. Gloria Gaynor seems to have had several albums full of great tracks.

Thanks for the info

if you're a fan of Gregg Diamond's production work AND a fan of Gloria Gaynor's, it would be a good idea to seek out the album they did together, "Glorius". I LOVE the tracks "Why Should I Pay"? and "Most of All". But as for waiting for so many classic disco albums to be released on CD, I gave up on that ages ago and instead concentrated on getting the vinyl albums and making copies and compilations of my favorites, using my USB turntable and computer. I have, in fact, seen several of my favorite disco albums on CD (most recently Giorgio Moroder's "Knights in White Satin" and the Ritchie Family's "Brazil") but they are always released on tiny little independent record labels that are here today and gone tomorrow....and they're not always listed on the internet, either. It sure would have been a good idea if some smart record company had released a lot of classic titles before the recession hit, because I doubt if many companies will take the chance now.