The clap track - When it started?

**Nano** · January 23rd, 2003, 07:13 PM

One of the things I loved in disco was that handclap percussive sound in syncro with the drums in bars #2 & #4, like in Gino Soccio's "Dancer". I guess I came in with that clap sound, because the violin-hi-hat style of before left me justly cold (I like it more by now). Anyway, when that clap thing started? And who invented it? And what's the first disco song with a handclap backing track? Well, you get the idea.
I'm warming up to another great lesson from Graham... 8)

**BrunoRepublic** · January 23rd, 2003, 08:05 PM

The handclaps in "Dancer" are real; they're just EQ'd (and have extra reverb on some in the middle of the song). Note now they aren't consistent; you can sometimes hear the individual hands, and other times it's just one big sound. Handclaps have been a part of disco from the beginning, haven't they?

Synthetic handclaps weren't really happening until the arrival of proper drum machines like the TR-808, which came out around 1980. Handclaps are very difficult to synthesize, and most performance-oriented synths simply aren't capable of anything close. Telex came close on Moskow Diskow, most likely done with some sort of modular synth.

**John365** · January 24th, 2003, 02:46 AM

Specialy made for handclaps ,was the Simmons claptrap
witch had only one single sound ,just the handclap.
It has no midi but only a trigger input,and there where two version ,digital and analog.
It has a nice feature called Humaniser,witch makes the second clap a little bit different from the first[more human feel]
I don't know the release date and if it was used a lot in disco productions.
Still using it a lot in our own disco productions.

Ciao John,

**K-Bee** · January 24th, 2003, 02:54 AM

Funny thing those handclaps.

If you look at the credits for the dude by quincy jones, people are actually credited for making them.

it was more fun though, the moment they started to syncopate the claps, removing them from just 2 and 4. Thanks to the old drumachines for that. Guess you couldn't expect real humans to clap like hell was about to freeze over.

Check most of the old school electro tracks (imperial brothers, jonzun crew, hashim, planet patrol a.o.) for some serious syncopated clappin'.

**QUINNY** · January 24th, 2003, 03:39 AM

Even handclapping on beats 2 & 4 for just a few minutes is bloody hard work. I can tell you that from my own painful experience. The trouble is that it is so repetitive and relatively sparce, that the mind wanders very easily, plus the hands get red raw. Thank heavens for samplers with an audio trigger.
As for the earliest use in dance music. Probably jazz from the 1920's.
earliest in Disco- whoah! Jeez that's a difficult one.

**BrunoRepublic** · January 24th, 2003, 08:38 AM

You said it Quinny. One of the tracks from The Ritchie Family's "Bad Reputation" LP has rapid-fire claps, and they're not quite in sync -- you can tell the folks just can't move their hands fast enough!

I was listening to the rest of Gino's "Outline" album last night, and I'm pretty sure one of the other tracks does have synthetic claps. While on the topic of Outline... has anyone else noticed that the sequenced synth on "There's A Woman" drops out of tune at a couple of points? Gotta love analog...

**paul** · January 24th, 2003, 01:25 PM

Well, I've been playing a lot of Cocomotion in my car and that has hand claps. I don't know if they are real or synthetic but that song goes back to '76 or '77.
By the way, it's nice to see young people ask me about that song as well as dance to it.

**Nano** · January 24th, 2003, 01:58 PM

As always, Graham has a cool response regarding some technical stuff :) Kudos for that, pal.

Now isn't this topic interesting? 8) Who was the first musician who said "hey, we can use handclaps as a backbeat"? Someone had to get the idea first.

Making a quick scan in my mind, the oldest disco track I can figure with drum-like clapping is Chic's "Dance, dance, dance". That would be 1977. Funnily, it seems these guys didn's use it later.

However, maybe the clue is in true funk music; it probably was there first. I think Parliament records already had it at that time. Or AWB's "Pick up the pieces"? That would be 1974... It's funny, I have no Internet at home and my memory's playing tricks... Were there handclaps in that song? :roll:

What would be the first handclapped beat, then?

**markydefad** · January 24th, 2003, 02:13 PM

Jeez, Motown used handclapped beats a lot...

Think "Where Did Our Love Go" by The Supremes of "Jimmy Mack" by Martha & The Vandellas. I'm sure there are many others.

**NickNack** · January 24th, 2003, 05:00 PM

Originally Written by markydefad

Jeez, Motown used handclapped beats a lot...

Think "Where Did Our Love Go" by The Supremes of "Jimmy Mack" by Martha & The Vandellas. I'm sure there are many others.

:) :) I was just going to type, "Hey, what about Where Did Our Love Go and all those other Motown songs?" You're too fast for me, Marky. :D

**paul** · January 24th, 2003, 05:07 PM

Whoa. Easy Marky and Nicky. :D I thought Nano was asking specifically about disco music. I didn't even bother considering the other stuff you guys mentioned. Of course you're right and as Quinny mentioned, there's probably jazz stuff from the 1920s with hand claps.

**Bernie** · January 24th, 2003, 05:17 PM

Okay, if we're going to delve outside of Disco then I'll say black gospel music. As a kid my dad would drive church groups throughout the northeast and that's all I would hear on the bus-clapping and singing. I'm pretty sure it was this exposure that led to my getting into Disco.

**K-Bee** · January 25th, 2003, 02:39 AM

I dunno about the 1920's stuff. Cab calloway might have used handlaps.
Ramsey Lewis definetly used them on much of his old recordings from the 50's.

There's even a classical orchestra piece that uses claps at some point.
can't remember who wrote it . May be some of the french impressionists like Ravel or Debussy.

**QUINNY** · January 25th, 2003, 08:40 AM

KBee: There is a musical instrument (a Slapstick?) used by orchestras which is meant to give the impression of a clap. It's 2 pieces of wood, one of which has a leather hinge and is attached to the other (longer) piece. They even use wooden rackets (a la football fan of earlier times) too, for the odd piece of music. Now, whether these have been written into classical pieces prior to the mid 20th century, I wouldn't know.
I do think the clapping device was used in Jazz in the 20's and I'm pretty sure band members would have clapped at certain points too. Chicago and New Orleans jazz just lends itself to it.

**disco1999** · January 25th, 2003, 09:54 AM

I love handclaps too, I'd say my all time fav would be Patrice Rushen - Forget me nuts with its extra double claps before 8th beat.

As for synthetic handclaps, Gino Soccio - Remember.

**Nano** · January 26th, 2003, 06:52 PM

Maybe soul music took it from doo-wop? Just a theory that crossed my mind. Groups like The Drifters started doing doo-wop or something very similar.

Of course Marky is right about Motown: I checked at home and surely "Too many fish in the sea" is full of handclaps. I also found that in some records produced by James Brown (but in the minority of his output).

About disco (which is my main interest) I did a quick scan in my basic CD collection and the oldest example I found (but is it really disco?) is B.T. Express' "Do it (til you're satisfied)", from 1974. There's also "Car Wash" from 1976, with a clap rhythm pretty original for its time.

I also made lists of who used it and who not, according to a pretty basic collection. I have to correct myself -Chic used handclaps in some later hits, starting with "Le freak" and of course "Good times", but there are other songs in those same records which don't feature any clapping (like "I want your love" and "My forbidden lover", respectively). About the lists:

DIDN'T USE IT (AFAIK): Barry White, Cerrone, Costandinos, Giorgio Moroder, Philly productions, Van McCoy, Voyage, KC & The Sunshine Band, ABBA, Lipps Inc., Quincy Jones (really?), Rodgers/Edwards (as producers of non-Chic material)...

DID USE IT: Raydio, One Way, Gino Soccio, Narada, Jacques Morali, Jacques Fred Petrus, the Jackson family, Instant Funk, Kool & The Gang, E,W&F (sometimes), most Italo disco of that time...

Could we say maybe that most violins-based disco and proto-electronic disco passed on using handclaps, while most funky-based bands used them? (But you can see there's some excepcions in these lists)

Does anyone know of a disco song with claps older than "Do it (til you're satisfied)"?

**QUINNY** · January 27th, 2003, 04:11 AM

Nano: I think you're right about handclaps being more dominant in Funk. It makes more sense 'cos of the more pronounced off beats.
Just as an aside: The record which possibly gave dancers the most problem, when trying to clap along, has got to be 'Funky Street' - Arthur Conley. Anyone remember trying to keep up with that frantic clapping in the verses? I certainly do.....and failing miserably. Oh the memories.

Marcio** · January 30th, 2003, 12:13 AM

A worderful disco with handclaps + bassline (the unmistakable Chic's style ) has a complicated name...
" Bounce, Rock, Skate, Roll " by Vaugham Mason and Crew.
It's not the start but the apogee and the glory :P .

.

**K-Bee** · January 30th, 2003, 07:02 AM

The Vaugham Mason track´reminds you of Chic, Marcio??

Funny, I've always thought of Kleeer when I heard it. It's a little like their "Tonight" from 1984.
BTW the claps are synthetic on "Bounce..." as far as I rembember. Have to check it out when I come home from Work to be sure though. :-?

**SandraDee** · January 30th, 2003, 03:38 PM

I'm intrigued that the hand claps on Gregg Diamond's stuff was done by the 'disco dykes'! (Jocelyn Brown & Diva Grey presumably). They also did the 'heavy breathing'! I love the 70's!