Reply With Quotethat's kool mon.
Underground Hit [Level 5]
Bubble-Perm / The Tube / David Joseph / Matamp Super Nova / Shufting In And Out / Jools Holland / Denim & Gold / Revox B77 / A Bit Of Scratching / Mike Shaft / Technics SL-1200MK2 / Echoing Effects / Channel 4 / Nathan Jones / One Record Following The Other / Greg Wilson / Newcastle-Upon-Tyne – February 25th 1983 / 1st UK DJ To Mix Live On National TV – 25 Years Ago Today.
Online for the first time to mark the anniversary: ON THE TUBE
Indie Release [Level 4]
that's kool mon.
Underground Hit [Level 5]
I must admit I went into watching the video expecting something else. The echoing was :icon_eek:, well, if you can't say something nice then don't say anything at all. My experience has been that a perfect echo or delay of two tracks is 2 beats not 1. Otherwise, I enjoy all this stuff....Thanks
Keeping the music alive... http://www.youtube.com/user/MixMasterMax
Indie Release [Level 4]
that's cool mon, just like in jamaica mon
No Longer Charting
Overall, I give you 10/10 for having the balls to do it.
Greg: You went a long way fast and it shows. I'd hope that in hindsight, you'd be big enough to somewhat agree with that sentiment.
I was one of those who watched the show and my reaction at the time was WTF. It wasn't what I'd expected, nor was it particularly good, IMO (I personally think you had an almost impossible task and remember feeling somewhat 'let down' at the time; yes! 1 beat delay always sounds pretty crap on funkier tracks, changing it to an agressive, funk-less 4/4 ting), BUT it was very much of the scene in which you'd been playing and of the US scene you were trying to emulate. IMO: The Revox delay was pretty gimmicky, rudimentary and totally unecessary in the context of a mixing demonstration to peeps who wouldn't have known a beat mix from a segue from a monkey wrench, BUT......you had YOUR way, so more power to your elbow.
The list of mixing DJs was interesting. Basically those who shouted about it the most, n'est-ce pas? Meanwhile in Southampton there was a quiet, shy, retiring kinda guy who'd been doing it (as well as those listed) for about 5 years at that point....:icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:
Underground Hit [Level 5]
Yeah, the whole thing is pretty raw when compared to what was going on in the US at the time, or what would transpire later in the UK, but, as I saw in the accompanying article, it was only a minority of UK DJ's who'd embraced mixing back then.Originally Written by MixMasterMax
I must admit I went into watching the video expecting something else. The echoing was :icon_eek:
To be honest, I was more than happy to get through it without making a total mess of things. Everything was on time and the cameraman, despite bumping into the decks, didn't jump the records. The fact that it was on live TV and hadn't been done here before was pretty terrifying for me.
With regards to what you call the 'echoing' (we used the term 'doubling-up'), I liked to use variants, depending on what part of the track I wanted to repeat, be it 1, 2, 4 or 8 beats - there wasn't a perfect way, as such. I'd also sometimes play 1 beat in front, if you get what I mean, which could work really well as an effect, anticipating what was about to happen.
Taking the clip in context, I think it could have been a lot worse - the most embarrassing thing about it being the haircut
Underground Hit [Level 5]
Re: 1st UK DJ To Mix Live On National TV – 25 Years Ago Today
.. believe me Greg .. your amazin afro is the 1 thing that makes the whole experience worth watching .. my 2 fifteen year old nephews think you look super cool .. kinda like a white Shaft .. :icon_eek: .. the afro is long-overdue for a comeback ..
Chart Hit [Level 6]
Here Here Ashley...that is a great perm :icon_lol: I am growing my own Homage to the Perm as I type...
I thought this Tube clip was a great piece of Dance History in UK, and puts into perspective the state of the genre at the time. I remember it was always refereshing to hear different mixes of discs, that as Greg said, could become a bit stale the more you heard them.
Whilst at first I did not really apprecitae what was happening with the sound of favourite discs, it only took a few listens to really get into the newly mixed versions...
Top marks to Greg for having the bottle to attempt this on live TV...and risk his reputation.
Whilst the US jocks had been doing this sort of thing for a few years, it was good to see that some UK jocks were trying to 'educate' British tastes.......
....of course Quinny had been doing this sort of thing with old knitting needles and pottery wheels since the dawn of time in Southampton :icon_rolleyes::icon_rolleyes::icon_lol:
..BTW, Where did you get your perm Greg ????
No Longer Charting
Of course!! Only we didn't do it with knitting needles, we had this pre-historic bird cum dinosaur and placed its beak on the records, just like in the Flintstones, you cheeky little .........:icon_lol:
The truth (that some UK DJs were mixing waaay before anyone realises) is quite a surprise,eh.
Even Greg didn't believe I wasn't using a microphone in '74 through to '77 and just segueing and (primitively) mixing records, so you're not alone. Young whippersnappers!!!
Gold Record [Level 7]
Greg, you must have been sweating bullets, if the camera man bumps your deck, cuing up back up the second deck (or both) to get the 1 beat delay would have taken you a while and completely ruined your spot!
I used the 1 beat delay a lot, mostly to emphasize the drum's downbeat, it work great on many "freestyle' records of the mid 80's.
But the two and 4 beat delay were the most popular, first time I ever did it was with "You'll never find" by Low Rawls , at the time here in the USA every DJ was working this song in this way.
The Reel to Reel delay trick was gutsy, it was hard to make this effect sound/work well, I did this trick on a few mixes, but used it mainly to force an "ending" at any alternate point in the mix/record, making the transition cut into the next song during the echo-ing.
It is so unbelievable to me to read that UK djs (except quinny :icon_biggrin: of course) were still talking over the music in '82, with few exceptions (usually small local 'Rock' bars with a talking 'radio' DJ between Band's sets) in all my clubbing days starting in '74 I never experienced that in a real Disco, especially since there is no way a Disco DJ can properly 'beat-mix" and talk on the Mike at the same time. (maybe fade/blend)
One of the reason people loved the club atmosphere here in the US so much was precisely because there was no DJ Talk interruptions to take anything away from the free flow of non-stop music.
No Longer Charting
Erm..even I HAD to talk when in the UK.It is so unbelievable to me to read that UK djs (except quinny :icon_biggrin: of course)
Actually, it is possible to talk and mix. You either do it by hitting the audience with the talking using the talk and the incoming record as part of segue (using two records where a segue sounds good; you could either do a pure segue or let the two records run together for as long as they kept in sync)....or by knowing two records that will keep in sync and letting the two run at full volume whilst talking over. Both are difficult and nerve wracking, but both are do-able. What I'd normally do is mix say 3 records in a row and talk over the 4th transition as the mix was just over or use one of the 2 techniques above. The trick, as always, was to finish talking just as the vocals/strong part of the track kicked in.especially since there is no way a Disco DJ can properly 'beat-mix" and talk on the Mike at the same time. (maybe fade/blend)
Both can be effective and exciting when done properly. I don't think the average UK punter found UK discos any less exciting. It's what you're used to, I guess.One of the reason people loved the club atmosphere here in the US so much was precisely because there was no DJ Talk interruptions to take anything away from the free flow of non-stop music.
Chart Hit [Level 6]
Hold on there Guys...I was actually working and frequenting clubs in the UK in the late 70's where there was none or very little talking, and only to announce a track, a birthday, etc..(usually after a couple or more discs had been played) ...the DJ would usually blend two records together or kill one deck and have the second deck take over, and go on until he felt like talking...:icon_surprised: I hope we aren't getting confused that all UK jocks talked in between records !!
What Greg did was MIX records in real-time.......this is what was new ??:icon_question:
am I right Greg...
Oh and BTW, Greg looks the spit of of Tommy Caton, the Man. City Footballer, with that perm.:icon_lol:
Chart Hit [Level 6]
Greg
that was great! Congrats on the anniversary!
No Longer Charting
Are we talking Northern Soul scene here? Many of the DJs didn't talk much on that scene. I've always thought it was because they didn't have the ability/personality to talk, as much as any ethos driven reason.Hold on there Guys...I was actually working and frequenting clubs in the UK in the late 70's where there was none or very little talking, and only to announce a track, a birthday, etc..(usually after a couple or more discs had been played) ...the DJ would usually blend two records together or kill one deck and have the second deck take over, and go on until he felt like talking...:icon_surprised: I hope we aren't getting confused that all UK jocks talked in between records !!
Of course not ALL jocks talked between tracks, but probably 99% did until the very late '80s.
Underground Hit [Level 5]
Bloody hell! Wonders never cease. I actually find myself agreeing with Quinny on something
Underground Hit [Level 5]
There were other DJ's well before '83 who were pioneering mixing in the UK, people like James Hamilton, the Record Mirror writer, Froggy from the Soul Mafia, Ian Levine at Heaven and Greg James, the guy who's credited with being the first proper mixing DJ in this country (he was an American who worked at The Embassy in London in the late 70's). However, this was still widely regarded as a fad, and it wasn't until much later that mixing began to be taken seriously here.
Tommy Caton has been mentioned before, but, being a Red, big shout out to Bryan Robson and his curly perm when he signed from West Brom on the pitch at Old Trafford in '81 (I was in the crowd).
No Longer Charting
Greg: I'm surprised we don't agree on a lot more. I'm sure we could, if I didn't have Scouseophobia, which was brought on by having to watch Brookside with my wife.:icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:Bloody hell! Wonders never cease. I actually find myself agreeing with Quinny on something
Your Time Capsules are my playlists almost to a tee and I'm sure that many more UK jocks would have been playing roughly the same tracks, showing that we trod a much different path over here during the Disco era, especially once the funk/soul mafia guys had their way.
Chart Hit [Level 6]
Hi Quinny.....NO NOT Northern Soul - Liverpool Clubs playing DISCO !!!
Greg, Hi Thanks for the update....and I agree The TIME CAPSULES ARE/WERE marvellous era defining reminders :icon_lol:
Now go take a valium and lie down, if Quinny starts agreeing with people gawd help us all :icon_biggrin::icon_lol::icon_confused:
Chart Hit [Level 6]
Just a couple of things ...
Unless you have read the accompanying text to the Tube clip, and to help get the show in perspective, the Tube National UK TV show on the new Channel 4 was really a vehicle for upcoming music of the 'rock' and 'New Wave' genres, and only occasionally had guests from the DANCE world - the sort of acts that played on the Tube were- Frankie Goes To Hollywood, Housemartins, the Cure, PIL, the Smiths, Ultravox and Wet Wet Wet, etc... and was just as concerned with irreverent humour and mickey taking. That said, it was in competition with the Chart based Top of the Pops show - which didn't have the remit to show new things such as mixing. So if Greg and mixing was to get any air time this was the only TV show that would do it.
Now, that David Joseph track has been going around my head now since I saw the clip (which I replayed about 50 times)....EXCELLENT!!!
I have the 7", and last night diecovered it on a CD (Magnum Opus Vol 2.), but I will NEED to get the 12"...
I also discovered that the 12" was remixed by none other than Larry Levan
IMAGINE YOU GO TO A CLUB AND HEAR THIS GREAT NEW TRACK THAT HAS JUST BEEN REMIXED BY LARRY LEVAN, AND IT BLOWS YOU AWAY, BUT THEN YOU HEAR IT GETTING MIXED REAL-TIME - WOW!!! THE 'RUSH' MUST HAVE BEEN OUT OF THIS WORLD....AND THAT IS WHY THIS ERA WAS THE BEST AND WHY WE LOVE IT SOOOO MUCH !!!!
As stated it was good to 'refresh' the music you heard played in disco's, and obviously the UK jocks didn't do as much Mixing until much later.....but I also remember the radio show in the North West 'Keep On Trucking' (which we have talked about in the past) playing mixes, I think they actually did one or two live on air :icon_question: - did you ever do any on that show ?
AND QUINNY - did Southampton have any mix radio shows in the late 70's/80's?- did you do any live mixes, and do you still have the tapes ?- and was that Bird Beak Turntable you mentioned from the SANDPIPER 'cos I heard it suffered from WARBLERS !!:icon_biggrin:
Last edited by disco-disc; February 28th, 2008 at 04:06 AM.
Gold Record [Level 7]
youve got that totally the wrong way round quinny, tip quinny when researching about music use google youll get better results
they didnt have the ability /personality to talk? hmm well theyre all still workin' but you aint
*** Forum Leader / Moderator ***
I remember the show - and, having seen 'mixing' in the clubs & parties for a few years was really impressed - I think by the song choice...a good Brit Funk artist instead of the US rap/hip hop artists that were pretty prevelant at the time as well as the skill.
It was Greg Janes who I remember very well at The Embassy. I nver got to talk to him as the DJ booth there used to be 20 feet up and there was no 'direct access' from the dance floor to the booth. I seem to recall it took a while for his style to be 'bought' by the punters and the 'vibe' of the club did change when he became established.
No Longer Charting
youve got that totally the wrong way round quinny, tip quinny when researching about music use google youll get better results
So, are you saying they talked a lot on the Northern Soul Scene? Enlighten us.
For money, or for the lurve of the music?they didnt have the ability /personality to talk? hmm well theyre all still workin'
or maybe I am.but you aint
He goads me, he goads me not.....he goads me, he goads me not.....he goads me, he goads me not.
Gold Record [Level 7]
HISTORY IN THE MAKING!!! Well done Greg.
"Please explain what a mixing DJ does" :icon_lol: says Jools Holland, as hip as ever!
Kevin Keegan eat your heart out!! :icon_razz: Another perm is in town.
Seriously though...will we ever see such a revelation in future? :icon_confused:
Gold Record [Level 7]
The version Greg is using here is the original (3:58) or maybe a different remix as He’s using a 12”, but this is not the Levan mix, on that mix the intro is different. Here is a scan I added to the vault.
Now, that David Joseph track has been going around my head now since I saw the clip (which I replayed about 50 times)....EXCELLENT!!!
I have the 7", and last night diecovered it on a CD (Magnum Opus Vol 2.), but I will NEED to get the 12"...
I also discovered that the 12" was remixed by none other than Larry Levan
IMAGINE YOU GO TO A CLUB AND HEAR THIS GREAT NEW TRACK THAT HAS JUST BEEN REMIXED BY LARRY LEVAN, AND IT BLOWS YOU AWAY, BUT THEN YOU HEAR IT GETTING MIXED REAL-TIME - WOW!!! THE 'RUSH' MUST HAVE BEEN OUT OF THIS WORLD....AND THAT IS WHY THIS ERA WAS THE BEST AND WHY WE LOVE IT SOOOO MUCH !!!!
http://www.discomusic.com/records-more/12766_0_2_0_C/
After taking some time to re-play and analyze this clip again, I must say again that Greg did a magnificent job, he certainly did his homework, there is no room for mistakes here, there is no time to recover or re-set to try again if anything goes wrong, this was live, and unlike in a club setting where the DJ can go back to the intro and start all over again, He had to get it right the first time, Talk about pressure.
The scratching intro is nice, you can see Greg is feeding a few scratches to the recording or ‘looping’ Reel to Reel, while at the same time carefully increasing the Reel’s volume ( it was easy to overdo this effect) at the mixer, then cutting out the 'loop' as he slips/slaps the song’s intro.
Then he quickly turns to cue the second record with one beat behind, this cue needs to be right on as it has to be ready in time just a couple of measures later to catch the synth section during the intro.
Next He punches the volume to TT-2 on beat ‘one’ (creating the delay) but just as quickly switching right back to TT-1 and continuing with the regular recording and then accentuating the end of the measure by raising the Volume controlling the Reel giving once again that “loop” effect, this processes is repeated again for a second time cutting off the loop just as the vocals kick in, nice :icon_cool:
Then using TT-2 (one beat behind) he catches up with TT-1 to do a “phase” effect by playing both records at the same time for a few bars.
Right after that He cues 4 beats behind on TT-2 and then cuts off TT-1 right after the first 4 beats of the vocal verse section alternating this section with the same 4 beats (delayed now)) coming from TT-2, this creates the vocal ‘echo’ or delay effect we hear, once again following with another ‘Loop’ effect from the Reel at he end of the measure.
This step is repeated again during the next vocal section but apparently half way through the synchronization between the TTs went off as you see him readjusting and resetting before the video clip ends, this was a common occurrence (and constant struggle) when doing ‘effects’ with Turntables, and one of the many reasons why doing stuff like this was not easy…
:icon_cool:
Last edited by Bernie; September 6th, 2011 at 01:37 PM. Reason: bad url
Gold Record [Level 7]
Sorry Quinny, but there is no way in hell that you or anyone else could talk on a mike while doing stuff like Greg is doing in this clip.
To do this kind of heavy duty Djing you needed complete concentration and control, if at any moment you break off your concentration because of any distractions in the booth, your mix was blown, to do this you not only needed to keep track of the song , beats, measures, and cuing, but you needed to keep an eye on the volume pots as well, as jumping from a TT to TT at the wrong volume would ruined the effect and would sound awful.
If you ever heard a DJ talking on a mike while doing effect DJ mixing like this, He was playing a tape (or a boot) for sure.
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