Reply With QuoteI guess it depends on what period you're referring to. In the '60s, discotheques abounded in the large metropolitan areas, NYC notwithstanding. It went underground, for better or worse, into the late-'60s/early-'70s. Didn't the Gallery open in 1973?
Indie Release [Level 4]
Is this is the case? What constitutes a discotheque and was 'The Gallery' the first place to possess these attributes?
Chart Hit [Level 6]
I guess it depends on what period you're referring to. In the '60s, discotheques abounded in the large metropolitan areas, NYC notwithstanding. It went underground, for better or worse, into the late-'60s/early-'70s. Didn't the Gallery open in 1973?
"Everyone knows the real reason why you got that part it was the time you spent on that casting couch"--Antoine Merriwether
"Excuse me, Miss Thing, but both of us spent time on that couch"--Blaine Edwards
Indie Release [Level 4]
Yeah, I think it was 1972 or 1973 that the Gallery opened. I saw Nicky Siano claim in the following doco exerpt that the Gallery was the first discotheque, thus my queries.
YouTube - Love Saves the Day - The Birth of Disco
Triple Platinum Record [Level 10]
That is great footage in that You Tube clip!!! Wow!!! Is that a from a UK documentary based on the Tim Lawrence book ??? Has it been shown in the U.S.???? :icon_question:
OK, after reading the comments...I see it's a BBC documentary...wow...where can I get this? Incredible footage of the clubs, dancers dancing and the DJs spinning...Too Cool!!!
"Lost inside adorable illusion...."
No Longer Charting
Was that a different version of Soul Makossa I heard playing? It didn't sound like Manu DiBango's. If it was, the Beeb screwed up BIG time (or were playing at silly buggers).
When are the Black community gonna get their rightful and proper good rap for the invention of Disco music and disco dancing??????:icon_twisted::icon_twisted::icon_twi sted:
I'm just asking.
Chart Hit [Level 6]
I don't know how to break the news to you, but disco has more or less lost favor in the Black community as a whole.Originally Written by QUINNY
"Everyone knows the real reason why you got that part it was the time you spent on that casting couch"--Antoine Merriwether
"Excuse me, Miss Thing, but both of us spent time on that couch"--Blaine Edwards
*** Forum Leader / Moderator ***
It's "Makossa '87 (Big Blow):
Indie Release [Level 4]
Marky -
Don't know where you can get the doco, but you're right the footage is fantastic. Apparently Nicky Siano is currently in the process of making a documentary about The Gallery, which will include exclusive footage of the club, the tunes, and the dancers. Look out!
TBD
Triple Platinum Record [Level 10]
Who would have thought that color film footage of Nicky Siano spinning at the Gallery would exist??? It looks so good...not everybody documented their every movement on camera back then like they do today!!! I would have thought it would only exist in the memories of those who were there... but you can actually see it!!!!
"Lost inside adorable illusion...."
Gold Record [Level 7]
Nice turntables, someone said they are the Torens TD 125 MK2, I don't remember those, looks like this featured "speed control" already, great for beatmixing !
What is funny is that during Siano's spinning clips the Turntables are spinning "clockwise" then counter clockwise and back again :icon_lol:.
I think is the way they manipulated the footage.. :icon_mrgreen:
No Longer Charting
Please tell me that Nicky Sianno having 2 turntables wasn't such a revelation as the guy in the footage made it out to be. If it was...........geez!
No Longer Charting
So they DID screw up! A lot of the soundtracks to these documentaries are NOT what they should be.
Indie Release [Level 4]
yes, that's a good point quinnmaster; you'll note that at the point in the documentary where they are talking about the birth of nightclub culture in NY in the late 60s they feature what sounds like a boogie track released c.early 1980s! they are attempting to convey a vibe with little repsect for the historical facts of the music.
Chart Hit [Level 6]
Boogie-thanks for finding this great clip! I think "the Sanctuary" should
also be mentioned as one of the first disco's with DJ Francis Grasso
Thom
Indie Release [Level 4]
no worries thom - a friend forwarded it on to me and i'm just sharing the love!
Double Platinum Record [Level 9]
*****
What year is it ??
It probably was a revelation!
Because exactly when did using two turntables become the club norm ???? It had to start somewhere.
This is part of the significance of Barry White's disco influence I was mentioning with LOVE'S THEME mixing directly into UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF LOVE ..... this example of mixing songs tightly ... to duplicate this concept of such tight mixes ... to further effectively blend various songs ... to create longer versions ... required the early DJs to convince their club owners, " Hey, I need to have two turntables to mix songs more effectively like this ."
It was developments such as this that created this emerging aura of something more specific to be identified as "disco".
As much as the individual records themselves ... it was the way they were being combined , the way the DJs were presenting them.... the way the music was handled under the controls of the DJ...... by his
using two turntables and a microphone ...
*****
Baby, take me
high upon a hillside
high up where the stallion
meets the sun
No Longer Charting
Remicks:
If it were a revelation, then the USA was eons behind the rest of the world.....and I find that difficult to believe and yet it can so easily all makes sense too.
Mobile DJs in the UK had had two turntables for at least 7-10 years previous to the Gallery opening....MOBILE DJs!!!
The most difficult piece of equipment to make (at a reasonable cost) in the early days was the mixer. The first club I worked at in 1972 had a very basic custom made mixer (one of the guys was a wiz with electronics), BUT it didn't have any Pre-Fade Listen....until the second night. We jocks put him right!
Personally, I had a compact mixer for two decks, two microphones and auxillary inputs from late '69/early '70 and it cost a fortune (about one and a half month's pay in my day job). I also used slip mats from 1968/9 onwards for tight cueing of tracks and until I purchased my first mixer, used to cue tracks up using the naked ear (not always successfully). With low torque, belt-driven turntables that were hideously sprung, one had to have nerves of steel and absolutely rock solid handling capabilities. No shakes allowed.
Gold Record [Level 7]
RIGHT~!!Who would have thought that color film footage of Nicky Siano spinning at the Gallery would exist??? It looks so good...not everybody documented their every movement on camera back then like they do today!!! I would have thought it would only exist in the memories of those who were there... but you can actually see it!!!!
I GAGGED when I saw it too..
(GAGGED)=Gay terminalogy for almost fainted or was in awe,"LOL":icon_lol:
It was like in Maestro when the guy who filmed the closing of Paradise Garage said he was disopointed that he got so little footage of Larry spinning that night because it was as he put it ..."Status Quo"
Last edited by Dayna; February 18th, 2008 at 07:26 AM.
Double Platinum Record [Level 9]
Most interesting Q.
You are at an inviable advantage as you were out in the club world a few years ahead of me. So , you had your own mixer made . (I wonder when the first affordable commercially made mixers became commonly available??)
You began DJing in '69 ..... and then continued from then on. :icon_cool:
Was the main point of two turntables initially for the ease of having the next song cued and ready ?? Was it basically to imitate radio ? Was it for overlays ( as the first song fades out .... to bring in the next song's intro)?
Or from early on was it also about creating a night's program and interweaving songs that related because of their arrangements, instrumentation, subject matter, etc. ... Were you regularly pairing two chosen records one after the other because they played well off each other?
At what point were you using double copies to make longer versions??
I'm curious as to when in the timeline of record DJing did such mixing concepts moreso begin to matter ...... so I'd be interested in how it was for you .... if there was an evolution in your approach to DJing and in how you viewed your role ....
thanks !
*****
Baby, take me
high upon a hillside
high up where the stallion
meets the sun
Indie Release [Level 4]
in addition, is the use of two turntables in an enclosed public space, at nightime, to provide non-stop music for a crowd to dance to, perhaps a preliminary definition of a discotheque? if so, was the gallery the first? or perhaps it was the spot where quinnbo played? maybe quinny was the first disco DJ?
No Longer Charting
Remicks: The idea of two turntables was certainly to be able to cue up the following disc so as to to have a continuous flow, BUT very much in a radio style format, especially in the UK, where microphones and personality DJs are still in demand (to this day, there are mobile jocks who talk over most records and play amazingly disjointed sets). Yes, we would fade one record over the other so there were no gaps, BUT not in a beat mixing style. The idea of a good club jock was very much to get in and out of tracks ASAP with just enough chat to coerce the dancers.
Personally, as I stated above,I almost always used slip mats to enable me to tightly cue records (again very much a la radio), but soon realised that it could be more effective by bringing in the next track on a drum roll or similar (especially many of the Motown tracks that were absolutely de rigeur and featured drummers who had their own little personal fills and rolls that they used on countless tracks). BPMs hadn't been part of a DJs armoury back then, BUT looking back at many of the tracks that found favour and which we used to play together, it's uncanny how many of them fall within certain BPM ranges. So even though we didn't know about BPMs (as a precise tool), our instinct worked for us in way that was almost unreal. Most of the better Motown records were 120-132 BPM, a lot of the better uptempo funk was 115-125 BPM. The musicians did a lot of the work for us.
The first record I personally remember expanding using 2 copies was the Denis Coffee's Scorpio. The best part and only really danceable part of that track, was the bongo led breakdown and it soon got really frustrating having just a minute or so of that. I'm not saying I made great mixes or segues of it, BUT I did manage to extend it well enough to keep people on the dance floor.
I became a 'mixing DJ' in 1974, upon my arrival in Spain and discotheques that had used this method from the year dot. That is, I played records only and segued between tracks, trying to piece together tracks that worked together well, preferably tempo-wise and/or feel-wise. Doing six hours a day, seven days a week was a great (if mentally exhausting) way of learning. Other (South American) DJs in the same town were already beat-mixing like old pros at this point and gave me something to aspire to. They also had an amazing playlist at any given time (far, far better than mine) and the vibe they created was incredibly 'clubby'. I didn't really come into my own until my move to another Spanish resort in '75, where I had loads of upfront tracks and very receptive audiences.
Double Platinum Record [Level 9]
Mixing Dennis Coffey's SCORPIO !! How fun was that!
SCORPIO
So Richie Havens wasn't the only one making music lovers bongo happy in 1971 !!
SCORPIO went all the way to #6 Billboard 11/13/71 and its a song using principally scratchy guitars , bongos , tambourine , party shouts ..... except for the missing heavier thump ......if this isn't disco I can't really say why not .... :icon_confused::icon_confused:
Thanks for sharing Quinny .
Say, this is a question you should have a reply to ..... when did YOU first start using the word "disco" ???? :icon_question: :icon_exclaim:
******
Baby, take me
high upon a hillside
high up where the stallion
meets the sun
No Longer Charting
Probably 1966 or 67. The words 'mobile disco' certainly came to prominence around 1968, when for the first time, it became possible to have enough amplification and lights (at a cost that although astronomical relative to today's prices) made it possible to make it happen. Suddenly, there were mobile discos doing functions everywhere.
Back in the late '60s, there were no high output transistor amplifiers and even a 100 watt valve amp was about as big as one could reasonably expect to buy. In fact, I remember doing a college disco with 2 Marshall guitar stacks, as P.A. specific speakers and amps just weren't factory made back then. The first transistor amp I ever owned was 35 watts per channel (that was HUGE for its time) which would blow up if the speaker output shorted...luckily it never did! This amp was mounted in a rudimentary case with no lid/top, had 2 inputs (1X phono, 1X Aux)and compared to the 2 X 50 watt valve amps we had been using, sounded about twice as loud. We fed this into 4 X (12" + tweeter) home made speaker cabinets which actually sounded darned good considering I knew nothing technical about acoustics. We used to utilize the two valve amps at some gigs to give us a speaker in each corner of the room. This was heady stuff for the time.
Even as late as 1967/8, most flash lighting FX were done using manual switching devices. Then, really cosmic sound to light units started to become widely available, that actually flashed in time to the music. You can't realise what an earth shattering moment that was in disco's development. Soon after sound to light chase units became available and there again, for someone like me on limited finances , it was a case of buying a bare bones unit on its circuit board and doing all the encasing, output sockets etc to customise it. These units also had the tendency to blow up if the output was shorted and only handled something like 100 watts of lighting per channel to begin with.
Advance Promo Copy [Level 3]
I'm half way through watching a BBC documentary that was on TV a few weeks ago called Once Upon A Time In New York on the history of punk, disco and hip hop and their development in New York in the 1970s. The first part of the docu is on punk and the artists in downtown, then it switches to the start of the clip shown here - "meanwhile in midtown". It seemed to finish the disco clip and move to hip hop but I haven't finished watching it to see if there are any more references. I thought the old clip of the Gallery showed Nicky Siano with three turntables.
toto
Double Platinum Record [Level 9]
This track was sampled in recent years by David Morales to great effect on 'Higher'; I s'pose it's begging to be sampled isn't it?
...ya gotta beat the street......
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