Why does the last track of a lp sound distorded ?

[Ysl]

Bonjour,

I wonder why on almost every LP I put on on of my 3 turntables (one SL1210 M3D), the sound of the last track (near the center !) seem distorded ?

Is it the records, the turntable, the cartridge (stanton/shure/pickering doing the same) ?

Thanks for your reply

[BrunoRepublic]

Inner groove distortion is one of the inherent problems with the vinyl format. As the groove gets closer to the center of the record, the actual velocity decreases, and you have much less space to squeeze the same amount of sound. The resulting grainy, distorted effect is called "mistracking". It generally gets worse with louder material, especially with high frequencies.

To get the best sound out of the end of an LP, you will need a cartridge with a very fine stylus -- meaning NOT a DJ cartridge -- and it must be set up properly (alignment, anti-skate, tracking force, etc.). Unfortunately, these days there are very few stores that sell good listening cartridges; the last few that I've bought I had to get through on-line retailers. DJ cartridges are everywhere, but these simply will not give you decent sound. In order to withstand the rough conditions of DJing (backcueing, high tracking forces, being dropped, etc.), DJ cartridges have very large and robust stylii. While these hold up these circumstances very well, they simply cannot accurately track those tight grooves at the end of an LP. Audiophile cartridges, on the other hand, are very delicate and fragile (and sometimes very expensive) devices... but they deliver the sound.

I've gone through several cartridges searching for the one that has the least mistracking... Ortofon OM-10 and 20, Grado Blue, Audio-Technica AT331LP... I currently use a Shure V15VxMR cartridge, which is known for being one of the best-tracking cartridges out there. Now I don't have tracking problems with even the loudest 12"s out there.

[Ysl]

Thank you Graham for such a comprehensive reply, better than I expected !

I do not think my Stanton 681EEE is especially done for DJ (as it does have a (removable) brush on the cartridge not allowing you to spin backward)

I will try to find one of those good cartridge, Ortofon wil be the easiest to find here.



Merci !

Ysl

[BrunoRepublic]

If you're going to get an Ortofon, get at least the OM-20 stylus. The OM-10 will have the same problems as your Stanton (trust me, I know this first-hand).

And make sure that the cartridge is aligned exactly with a protractor. That 1/4" or so that you can slide it around in the headshell may not seem like much, but it can make a world of difference!

[Jimmy-Michaels]

One thing I have done to remove that static/distortion when I totally remaster an LP to CD from vinyl is by using a 6 band EQ and usually when I do this prossess it takes me quite a while cause I have to know the tracks inside out the way the frequincs could drop. For instance, when I did Costandinos' Paris Connection LP, that took some work...on "Eloise" it starts out with fairly good bass responce then as the synths drop in it decreases so, i increased with the drop and on my CD it sounds perfect like it was never off. Also at the end of that record for the distortion and static I had do decrease the 4th band ever so slowly as it started to hit while increasing the 6th band. This probably sounds like what the hell is he talking about lol, but i can say the results were exelent. My CD actually sounds like this LP was really remastered and released on CD now. I hope this info was helpful to you in some way :D

DJ Jimmy M

[Ysl]

I ordered an Ortofon Moving Coil Cartridge MC15 Super MKII wich I hope will solve the problem and will give me a better sound.

If it doesn't work, I will try this EQ trick.

thanks

Ysl

[BrunoRepublic]

I ordered an Ortofon Moving Coil Cartridge MC15 Super MKII wich I hope will solve the problem and will give me a better sound.

This looks like a very nice cart, but it is a low-output moving-coil design. Are you aware that you will need a step-up transformer, or a phono stage with a switch for MC carts? It will be veeeery quiet in a standard (moving-magnet) phono stage.

[Ysl]

Thanks for the warning but I do have a Yamaha AX590 Amp with a switch to choose between MM and MC.

This will be my first MC cart, I'm wondering if this is a good choice !

Ysl

[BrunoRepublic]

Thanks for the warning but I do have a Yamaha AX590 Amp with a switch to choose between MM and MC.

Good stuff. MC phono inputs aren't exactly common these days (were they ever?), and I didn't want you to make an expensive mistake. :oops:

This will be my first MC cart, I'm wondering if this is a good choice !

Ortofon makes great cartridges -- I think they have more models available now than any other manufacturer -- and going from the specs, I'd say this is a winner. It's got a fine line stylus, which is what you want to be able to track those inner grooves. Just be sure that the cartridge is aligned as good as you can get.

Moving-coil carts are prized by many in the vinyl world for their detail and fast response. Ortofon have been championing MC carts for many years now. Mind you, I have no direct experience with MC carts, as I don't have a suitable phono stage, and the only MC carts that I've seen for sale here are the absurdly expensive kind ($2,000 for a Benz Micro? I'll take two, please :roll: ). One thing I have read over and over again though, is that it may sound very harsh for the first few hours -- you might need to give it some time to "break it in".

Getting back to Ortofon... I started with an OM-10 which I didn't like, but in all fairness that was a budget cartridge and one cannot expect much from it. Upgrading to the OM-20 stylus improved things a lot, but there was still some mistracking on a small number of my LPs. I had considered going for the -30 stylus or trying out something like the X5MC (high output moving-coil), but Ortofons are fairly pricey here -- and anything above the OM-20 has to be specially ordered. I went with the Shure because I could get it relatively cheap from the USA, it's known to track as good as anything out there, and it has the stabilizer brush that allows it to effortlessly track those warped 45 RPM 12"s that I have. But if the price difference worked the other way (as it does in Europe), I would've chosen another Ortofon.

[Ysl]

Thank you for your comment !

I buy Ortofon because of the good price I have (100 Euros for the MC15 Super MK II) and because they are good !

One disavantage with MC is that you can not change the styli

One thing I have read over and over again though, is that it may sound very harsh for the first few hours -- you might need to give it some time to "break it in".

Thank you for this, I knew this is the case for speakers but didn't know it was the same for cartridge !

Ysl

[neonlights]

I know this is an old thread, and I'm not anywhere near audiophile-level expertise, but I recently managed to solve my own problem with inner groove distortion, which I'd pretty much tolerated as an analogue annoyance. Being relatively new to vinyl though, I've never really been able to find a way around it until now.

Some three years ago, I got a Shure M97 cartridge, thinking that would solve the problem. It was universally praised, and supposedly the next best thing to the discontinued Shure V15VxMR. Although it was an improvement from the ones I had before, it never really tracked the inner grooves as well as I'd hoped. Recently I got sick and tired of it, hearing other people's rips of the some of the same albums I had also ripped, with no distortion, where mine had tons. I ended up taking a chance based on one review on another site and ended up buying an Audio Technica AT440MLa. I got it yesterday and I can't believe how much the distortion (at least to my ears) has been reduced, to the point where it even seems non existent on the overwhelming majority of records I've tried, many which the Shure had a hard time tracking. As a result, I've sacrificed a good amount of sleep and have been luxuriating myself in my vinyl all night :icon_smile:... Anyway, I had paid around the same price (around $100 USD) for the Audio Technica as I did for the Shure three years back, so consider this a good low cost alternative for anyone looking for a solution..

[canadiantire]

Audio Technica AT440MLa is what I ended up using.

When properly installed, weighted and tracked, it does a decent job on my already worn vinyl records.

I am not a big spender when it comes to audio gear so the Audio Technica along with the Shure V15 were the two manufacturers that were in my target at the time.

Since I had poor results with other models of Shure (lower range of models), I decided to go with Audio Technica which always "delivered" the promise.

Still, I read good reviews on the Shure cartridges. I reserve it for my next purchase...


- Marcus

[BrunoRepublic]

Still, I read good reviews on the Shure cartridges. I reserve it for my next purchase...

Shure's V15 is no longer in production. The M97 isn't nearly as good.

I switched to an Audio Technica AT150MLX a few months ago. Much brighter (sometimes too much), tracks as well as the Shure, and has much better channel separation. I miss the brush though... that really helped cut down the rumble and helped a lot with warped records.

[Westwood]

Hey guys and Graham ;) I have just posted a thread with a similar problem, can you take a look? I haven't read anythign that applies to my turntable here btw but reading this was very enlightening.

[recordfever]

I have a Technics SL QD 33 turntable. this is something i've always wondered myself. but more to the point. what kind of stylus can/should i get for my turntable? it's definitely made for DJs with cueing and whatnot.
what are your suggestions?

Inner groove distortion is one of the inherent problems with the vinyl format. As the groove gets closer to the center of the record, the actual velocity decreases, and you have much less space to squeeze the same amount of sound. The resulting grainy, distorted effect is called "mistracking". It generally gets worse with louder material, especially with high frequencies.

To get the best sound out of the end of an LP, you will need a cartridge with a very fine stylus -- meaning NOT a DJ cartridge -- and it must be set up properly (alignment, anti-skate, tracking force, etc.). Unfortunately, these days there are very few stores that sell good listening cartridges; the last few that I've bought I had to get through on-line retailers. DJ cartridges are everywhere, but these simply will not give you decent sound. In order to withstand the rough conditions of DJing (backcueing, high tracking forces, being dropped, etc.), DJ cartridges have very large and robust stylii. While these hold up these circumstances very well, they simply cannot accurately track those tight grooves at the end of an LP. Audiophile cartridges, on the other hand, are very delicate and fragile (and sometimes very expensive) devices... but they deliver the sound.

I've gone through several cartridges searching for the one that has the least mistracking... Ortofon OM-10 and 20, Grado Blue, Audio-Technica AT331LP... I currently use a Shure V15VxMR cartridge, which is known for being one of the best-tracking cartridges out there. Now I don't have tracking problems with even the loudest 12"s out there.