Indie Release [Level 4]
does anybody have the tracklisting for this set, as it appears in the link below??????
http://www.dhpmixes.com/mixes/garageclose.rm
also, any comments on the set are appreciated.....i thought it was something very special!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
peace and love
the boogie doctor
No Longer Charting
Maybe not the best part of the evening on this recording. Rather like the weather in Cornwall.....always better last week.
Think I would have been bored, to be honest. Although some of the tracks are greeted by whoops and hollers and singing, it all sounds a tad low key to my ears, especially his spinning, which has no attack whatsoever....... and that bl**dy siren....Yeuch!!!!
Indie Release [Level 4]
i didn't think it sounded too bad....seriously deep and chugging stuff....quite druggy and spacey, which is always to my liking....
Gold Record [Level 7]
Anyone has a suggestion to play .RA files without having to install Real Audio software??
RA software always causes problems for me and I avoid this codec like the plague.
from a review of the latest RealPlayer version
"The program still suffers from an intrusive installation, but file-type hijacking and upgrade harassment are mostly gone."
But I don't trust them!!! Why anyone bothers to produce/post anything in .RA codec in this day and age is beyond me!!!
I found this alternative, but I don't know much about this freeware's reliability either..
Free-Codecs.com :: Download Real Alternative 1.75 : Real Alternative will allow you to play RealMedia files without having to install RealPlayer/RealOne Player
Test Pressing [Level 2]
Originally Written by Mixmachine
I've been using Real Audio online since 1998. At the time it was THE way to encode mixes for a web site. From a tried and true format I got the streams to come out with near CD quality and was satisifed with the easy process, not to mention the ability to include .smil.
I guess I'm just too old school and didn't jump onto the MP3 mix bandwagon until now. Real Audio is a great online audio tool in most cases. I still hear some sites with very bad processing and you can hardly hear the music streams without heavy distortion. Real Audio is very system intrusive and going the way of the dinosaur. There are some free conversion software that supposed to smoothly encode .ra to mp3 but it seems cumbersome to site visitors.
Real Audio gives ways to convert files for iPods and direct CD burning, but they still want people to download their software. As for 2008 I will start streaming broadcasts in MP3 formats.
As to answer your question, why anyone would produce in real audio, well it was the best and most server accommodating in its day. And it's sometimes hard to teach us old dogs new tricks.
Houseman
Virgo Lounge - House Music, Deep House, Garage, Club and Disco Music
Indie Release [Level 4]
can we discuss the set please????????????
Chart Hit [Level 6]
Re: Larry Levan's set at Paradise Garage closing 1987
After listening to the set, these are the tracks I've been able to identify...
1. Do it Properly - 2 Puerto Ricans, A Black man & a Dominican
2. Changes - Sharon Ridley
3. Stay Free - Ashford & Simpson
4. (acapella) - Don't Make Me Wait - NYC Peech Boys
5. ?
6. ?
As far as the mix itself, I'll have to agree with Quinny, it was kind of dull, sound quality and background noise are definitely a contributing factor to that, but the whole set just seemed to be all over the place....
Q.D. Earl
Unlimited Music Merchants
Q.D. Earl on Stickam
Q.D. Earl on Mixcrate
"The Problem is....Choice."
Test Pressing [Level 2]
This was undoubtedly recorded by someone who sneeked a boombox into the Garage. The mixing is definitely Levan. It may sound crude, but you would have had to been there to get and understand the full blast. No one and I do mean no one could promote a song like Levan. He was truly married to the music and could get the crowd worked up like no other. This particular mix sounds like towards the end of Garage's days (late 80s). This was not the time to be in its vibe. Turn it back 5 or 6 years before and it was truly a magical place that was between space and light. Give me the Garage anyday over that snotty 54.
Underground Hit [Level 5]
There were only two types of people who like Levan's mixing abilities, those as high as he:icon_smile: and those higher than he. To this day I still cannot understand what all the fuss is about this man. Since all the clubs of the era were playing mostly the same tracks all we are left with is the mixing, nothing but the mixing. And I must tell you that Levan was left out of the gene pool on this trait when compared to his DJ peers. “understand the full blast” or “no one could promote a song like Levan”, “he was truly married to the music”…what the heck inspired these statements…heavy drugs no doubt. I am beginning to believe that no one here (except Quinny and few other good souls) ever attended a Discotheque around the time of Levan otherwise they would recognize the insignificant contribution this man left behind.
Keeping the music alive... http://www.youtube.com/user/MixMasterMax
Indie Release [Level 4]
levan is god - your appraisal is very inaccurate and well wide of the mark...i think you need to respect and praise the gods of the genre from which all the people here derive a great deal of meaning and love.
Underground Hit [Level 5]
I mean no disrespect but surely you jest and certainly you never heard your God at the throne. There is no one here that loves this genre more than I but I do not see a need to perpetuate inaccurate information even at the risk of dethroning a God:icon_evil:. The fact remains that there were many, many DJ’s of the day that would run circles around Levan and are not even held to the Bishop status much less God Status. Time has a way of diluting the truth and I am only trying to inform those who were not there and did not hear him first hand that what is being said is most inaccurate. Surely if a God is needed to occupy the DJ booth, Levan does not rank.
Keeping the music alive... http://www.youtube.com/user/MixMasterMax
Indie Release [Level 4]
I am most glad to see there are other "heretics" out there. I have always thought the deification of Levan was way over the top. No, I wasn't there, but if the mix cd released a few years ago is any indication of what he actually played, and how he played, it really showed no great skills in mixing or song choices. The songs on the cd are what any dj at the time would have played. Maybe the Garage was a great club with a great sound system, so anyone who was the resident dj would have been equally admired.
Test Pressing [Level 2]
I'm taking a leap here, but I'll be the one to try to explain the Garage.
The Garage was a juice bar that basically catered to 54 rejects. (I know I'll get into trouble for that). I was there and in Chicago when underground house was in its infancy. The big DJs didn't touch house whatsoever at the time saying it was just dogs barking in a sampler and such. The Garage however, was quite different. Levan is not a legend simply because he couldn't mix. He's a legend because of how he overcame an obstacle and made it better than a perfect or flawless mix. He could promote a record that equated into sales. There was a many of night that Levan only played 5 or 6 records for the entire night. Now before anyone says that has to be boring, it really and I do mean REALLY worked.
To understand a night for Levan, it generally started around 1 or 2am or so and ended the next AFTERNOON - late, like 2 or 3PM). People were actually knocked out and camped out in the bleachers, in the back rooms or wherever they could find. Crash out for a couple of hours and get up and Levan was still beatin' the box like he just started. And this went on until he stopped.
That was his magic. Whatever Levan played, if you were lucky enough to get him to play your track, was an instant hit not only in New York but nation wide. He had an uncanny ability to pick the right songs and drum 'em in. Every week was different and everyone knew they were listening to some crazy unreleased (still on the tape) track that NO ONE else had.
No... his mixing talent was not top notch but his energy and his presentation was beyond top. To this day, I have never heard a DJ that could promote and sell records like Levan, and I've heard a lot.
The Garage was just a special place in the right time and that's all. To try and critique it would be just a huge waste of time... that's the reason we still talk about THE legendary DJ.
Houseman
No Longer Charting
We'll have to take your word for it, BUT I'm still cynical that such a brilliant DJ didn't garner a more widespread reputation BITD and why this 'last night' recording sounds sooo incredibly low key, from someone you say had energy in abundance. Personally, I can't feel any vibe at all from that recording....NOTHING!!
I only ever knew him (albeit in the UK) as a name attached to certain remixes (some of which are among the worst ever remixes). Come to that, why wasn't he given more of the 'disco hits' to remix, the records that would have spread his fame (and yes!, many of them would have been obvious contenders for hit status)? The only logical answer has to be that most record companies didn't trust him with their product. There were never any "our spies in NY tell us that Larry Levan is THE DJ to go see" type commentaries that I knew of. I stand to be corrected, but have to re-iterate; Larry Levan wasn't regarded as a Super DJ/DJ God BITD, on this side of the water, through any kind of concensus.
By only playing 5 or 6 records a night IMO he was being a total ****head. There are only so many ways of mixing 5 or 6 records (in his case rather poorly by all accounts, so it wouldn't have been seemless) and to expect us to believe anything different is ridiculous in the extreme. Personally, if I'd been in the audience I'd feel affronted by such a selfish, arrogant display.
The list of 1000 Larry levan trax that was on this site a while back certainly didn't show a DJ who had a knack of choosing the BEST records. http://www.discomusic.com/forums/dis...76-1987-a.html
Many on that list were mediocre, nondescript dance trax and almost all the others were played by every DJ across the globe. Now, he may have had access to them before anyone else because of a priviledged position, BUT that doesn't mean HE broke them. Record companies may have used him as a barometer, BUT he wouldn't have been used in an entirely exclusive way, would he? If he had, there would have been "as endorsed by Larry Levan" or something similar plastered all over the 12" sleeves of 'countless' records. Don't think I ever saw one and we all know that record companies weren't slow at using any trick they could, in order to garner more interest/sales of a product. Any DJ worth his salt would have picked the same tracks as winners, 90% of the time, so no special gift, for my money. As a DJ I, or anyone else in the business, would know within the first minute, whether or not a track would work. We damned well had to!!!
BTW: If anyone hears a record more than 3 times in relatively quick succession, they're gonna remember it (and more likely, like it), aren't they?
Test Pressing [Level 2]
Like I said, I'm trying to explain.
Underground music has always and will always have an appeal. Some may detest it... but others get something out of it. Levan was a a true underground DJ. The deepest of them all was Ron Hardy (Chicago-Music Box).
The problem with deep and underground is... that it always needs to be topped. Kinda of the same situation with Jazz back in the 50s. You tend to get too deep and go too far, as the last mix you heard from the Garage. At that point The Garage was a "shooting gallery" if you know what that term is. It got so bad that it had no other choice but to close because it had ruined so many lives. That's the price. That's the price that was paid... some died, some lived, but none was the same.
That's the reason to this day I don't spin records. I know how deep and far it can go. There's always a group who wants it that way and WILL demand it... and at this point of MY life... I like it normal.
I don't expect DJs who played commercial or all the top Billboard hits to understand this genre. I'm simply trying to explain in plain words how it was and for the most point still is. Like the classic First Choice track said "It's Not Over"... and you know what ... it's still not!
Now for those DJs who played it safe with Billboard, DMC and the likes, it would be hard for you to understand a side of music that not only entertains, but deeply connects others in a strong way. I'm an old man in my late 40s and when I get on a dance floor today, I can still out dance kids in their 20s, because I feel it, they don't. All they want is what's popping and whos in the headlines. That doesn't turn me on or do a thing for me and I feel sorry that they missed so much. But hey, this is the world of Hip Hop, Pop, Drug Trance and cute Club.
What I'm sharing with you is a rare and real take on the underground. Music can be just as addictive and dangerous as any mailine drug. This is TRUE.
It all depends on how far your willing to go and take it. To me... that's my attraction to it. Music, in no matter what form, will never end.
Getting back to Levan... this is a true person of his art who gave his life to the beat. He allowed himself to be swollowed whole for his dedication to his music. He paid a heavy, heavy price to be a legendary DJ and no matter how you look at it... a person who does such a thing, so others may have a way (and hopefully makes it better), deserves respect. You don't have to like him, his music, his mixing or whatever, but what you do need to know is what his contribution was.
Maybe a movie will convey it better.
Houseman
Underground Hit [Level 5]
Pardon me if I don't wholeheartedly accept this larger than life pedestal some of us here place Levan. As far as underground and early House music, Jellybean Benitez and others were better than Levan and in fact remixed and produced more records than Levan ever did. As I said, Distant history and memories have a way of bypassing some and building others up to the point of ridiculousness.
Now, let’s talk amongst friends here, I know it is hard to accept someone telling you that the man, the myth, the legend was not all that some profess. How would you feel if you paid $10 (80’s money) to get in a club and the DJ passed out from drugs? Wait, I am sorry, I guess I was just suppose to accept that even God has problems. Oh, sorry, I forgot to put on the next record….That sure helped the state of mind I was in at the time… Do some investigating and you will see the light. No, not the Halo on Levan’s head.
http://www.mickmusicpage.net/data/eng/04_levan/pack.htm
His drug use - cocaine and heroin mainly - his chronic lateness, and his extreme mood swings had always been notorious, but now his erratic bahavior intensified. He would DJ intermittently at clubs in New York, London and Tokyo, sometimes so stoned he'd forget to put records on. One night at Trax, Levan was found asleep in the DJ booth in a pool of his vomit. As Mel Cheren, the Garage main financial backer, puts it: "Larry Levan was the king who lost his kingdom."king who lost his kingdom."
One must always investigate and question when presented with someone proclaiming to be God. Now it’s up to others to investigate and anoint a new God. I know for sure what I am saying is true.
Keeping the music alive... http://www.youtube.com/user/MixMasterMax
Indie Release [Level 4]
I don't think anyone here is labouring under the false pretences that Levan was perfect and wasn't beset with innumerable personal and substantive problems, we're are just trying to highlight the fact, as Houseman has done so eloquently, that Levan was a man that animated nightclubs, and animated, indeed inhabited, records to such an extent and with such vibrancy and passion that has never been replicated.
R.I.P. Larry Levan. So much love.
The Boogie Doctor
Acetate [Level 1]
The djs mixing records,WBLS and Frankie Crocker help the sales not Larry Levan.But if you have the help of Judy and the sound system of Paradise Garage you can be Larry Levan.You broke new records every week ,everybody need your help for this but noboby,producer or label can trust you for a remix like Jellybean or Pettibone.
House music is a different story,it's Ron Hardy,Farley Jackmaster and the Hot Mix 5.There's no Larry Levan there.There's no Larry Levan anywhere after the Garage.The God couldn'not do the miracle again,even at Ministry.
I think it's time to talk about Real DJs like Jim Burgess,Roy Thode,Richie Rivera and all the great of the disco era.Forget the compilations persons that cannot mix,maybe they're lucky for their fame but they're not djs:icon_mrgreen:
Indie Release [Level 4]
Its ridiculous to underplay Levans obvious talent and legacy in this thread the way it has been. Sure there may be a little hype involved in the stuff you read but theres no way in hell that someone could be as high profile as he was and remix as many classics as he did and hold a residency in one of the biggest clubs in NY for 10 years if he was some ordinary talentless guy. To propose the notion is to insult the intelligence of dozens of garage clubbers, record industry folk and record buyers.
Yes Jim Burgess and Roy Thode were great DJs, but on a different wavelength and a different ideology to Levan. Theres simply no point in trying to make the comparison.
More importantly than all thats been stated is that without Levans influence, the music and the scene would be a vastly different place. He inspired almost all of the most influential house music producers and djs of the last 15 years, most of whom in turn have and do inspire many more each day. In such a context, the tightness of ones mixing isnt as essential a thing as made out
Acetate [Level 1]
It's ridiculous to talk about somemone who's sleeping in his booth or he's
not there whn the record finished.
It's also ridiculous to tell that mixing it's not important.From the early disco years every Dj that respect his name[Walter Gibbons,Roy Thode,
Richie Kaczor,Jim Burgess,Bobby Viteritti,John Ceglia,Tee Scott,Lou DiVito]to our time[Vega,Morales]has great mixing skills.
Mix is not important only for persons that CAN'T mix.In this case everyone who was just a member of a record pool and has the right records was a disco legend.For the Levan's influence my answer is that
Roy Thode and Jim Burgess wherever they spun music was the same magic.There's no Levan outside the Garage.And he is not so important
as Pettibone or Kevorkian,real remixers-producers that create the proto-
house sound of NY.So maybe it's less ridiculous to believe my ears from the hype.
No Longer Charting
Exactly why he is put on the pedestal today....NOT because he was heralded BITD!
His reputation has been built to its current day level by those producers who STOLE (parts of) tracks ad infinitum that he'd worked with or on to include in their latest opus. Suddenly a light switch clicked for 'em and THEY started to lay down before him and treat him as Deity. A somewhat FALSE influence.
I ask you, who in their right mind would put forward Loose Joints - Is It All Over My Face as a seminal Disco record, or one that should be treated with utmost respect, except people who'd heard it in a popular House toon and started digging for some answers? Only to get the totally wrong answer,IMO.
Conor, you're waaay younger than I, so you have to accept that we'll never see eye to eye over this. IMO, you've been brainwashed/conditioned, like soo many of your generation to accept a very narrow interpretation of the truth. Come to this forum to learn (from some guys who ACTUALLY lived the life, at the time and don't have product to sell, ulterior motives/agendas, or large egos to massage) and you'll be one step ahead of most.
Indie Release [Level 4]
I hear what youre saying about the youth issue and I accept that, but for a second lets leave that all out of it. I actually love the record 'Is it all over my face' along with many others that were big Garage records, but I know when I dont like something and I dislike many big Garage records also. Same with the big Saint records. Nobodies brainwashing me, I just hear something and I either like it or not, simple as that. When I play these records myself, people dance without any idea of their back story and the fact that 2000 queens may have been losing it to them 25 years ago doesnt really come into it then.
As for the guys they inspired, to deem people like Francois K, Morales or Louie Vega as anything less than genius in their production output is silly. They are of my time and I have played with FK and seen the others and can tell you without any inkling of a doubt they are the real deal (Though Morales has lost his way somewhat in the past while).
George, mixing isnt important in the face of what is. If you can really use the power of records, you can get away with it, otherwise then you cant. Granted the ultimate is to have both in abundance (What I strive for myself personally) but not all records need to be mixed. The only rule for great DJing is that there are no concrete rules
No Longer Charting
[quote=conor l;132567]I hear what youre saying about the youth issue and I accept that, but for a second lets leave that all out of it.
You either accept it or you don't. Obviously you don't.
If you like it O.K. However, do you think there's such a thing as peer pressure that can affect one's judgement. My point was NOT whether or not anyone should like IIAOMF, it was whether or not it should have been made such a big deal of for the past 15 years.I actually love the record 'Is it all over my face' along with many others that were big Garage records, but I know when I dont like something and I dislike many big Garage records also. Same with the big Saint records. Nobodies brainwashing me, I just hear something and I either like it or not, simple as that.Aw, c'mon Conor. Why do you play the track in preference to the 1000's of others that you could play? I hope you'll look into your motives a little deeper and do some soul searching. If your crowd is into House (which I suspect it is), they'd surely recognise the track and feel at home with it, wouldn't they.When I play these records myself, people dance without any idea of their back story and the fact that 2000 queens may have been losing it to them 25 years ago doesnt really come into it then.
No-one has suggested such a thing, have they?As for the guys they inspired, to deem people like Francois K, Morales or Louie Vega as anything less than genius in their production output is silly.
Francois K was THE name in remixing from the late '70s into the '80s. Morales (as part of M&M) was THE name in remixing from the eraly '80s through to the mid-late '80s. So hardly of your time.They are of my time and I have played with FK and seen the others and can tell you without any inkling of a doubt they are the real deal (Though Morales has lost his way somewhat in the past while).
Now, if someone was to trumpet them over and above Levan, I wouldn't argue.
Indie Release [Level 4]
I do accept you have a different perspective given you were active in a different time. I simply just dont see it the same way, thats all. Im not begrudging you you're right to these opinions, just discussing them
You either accept it or you don't. Obviously you don't.
Strangely it would be quite the opposite. None of my peers in my scene have brainwashed or pushed any of these records on me. If anything it would be the other way around. I have read about and heard these records in different sources (Books, cds, clubs) and have been looking for them to an extent. To say I have approached or viewed them with anything other than an independent mind is ludicrous. I could go through that 1000 PG classics and pick out plenty I wouldnt play, just because I dont like them, no other reason. Im under no pressure and Im playing them simply because I like them, I believe in them and because I think that they are the right record for that particular moment for whatever reason that may beIf you like it O.K. However, do you think there's such a thing as peer pressure that can affect one's judgement. My point was NOT whether or not anyone should like IIAOMF, it was whether or not it should have been made such a big deal of for the past 15 years.
I dont follow what you mean. I have 2 residencies, one which is a house night, the other is pretty eclectic and I generally play those styles as appropriate. Despite that, the simple choice for any selection I make as a DJ is because I believe that song is right for that moment. Whether thats the deepest underground track or something in the charts is irrelevant. What is is that I believe that is the right song for that moment and Im independent and confident enough and have enough integrity to fully believe in the decisions I make in this respect. Yes I try to absorb influences from anything I possibly can, but I dont ever do or play anything I dont want to due to outside influence.Aw, c'mon Conor. Why do you play the track in preference to the 1000's of others that you could play? I hope you'll look into your motives a little deeper and do some soul searching. If your crowd is into House (which I suspect it is), they'd surely recognise the track and feel at home with it, wouldn't they.
I gathered that impression as they would be the ones hes influenced who were/are leading lights. Maybe Ive misinterpreted your post?No-one has suggested such a thing, have they?
Francois K still is very forward thinking in his approach to music and its for that reason he is, in many ways, the modern DJs DJ. I dont know anyone who doesnt rate or respect him. I will say though, Im fairly sure he would argue vehemently against your points about Levan if he was to enter this discussion.Francois K was THE name in remixing from the late '70s into the '80s. Morales (as part of M&M) was THE name in remixing from the eraly '80s through to the mid-late '80s. So hardly of your time.
Now, if someone was to trumpet them over and above Levan, I wouldn't argue.
I actually meant David Morales, not John. As maligned as he may be in the eyes of some, many of his productions and mixes from the years 87 on(Generally the much lesser known ones), are superb and very original
Double Platinum Record [Level 9]
I've got a copy of Record Mirror from '79 & the late great James Hamilton (who really knew his stuff & I always respected even if his tastes weren't always mine) talks about a trip to some big DJ convention in NYC he's just been on & he is full of praise for the Paradise Garage & Larry Levan while he was very disappointed with Studio 54 & called it over-rated & full of middle-aged businessmen & 'unhealthy-looking' ()women.
...ya gotta beat the street......
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