* * * * *
did you know that Gamble and Huff offered Daryl Hall and John Oates positions as staff writers at PIR? Hall and Oates turned them down, saying they didn't want to be "part of someone else's sound".
* * * * *
And fast forward roughly 10 years, when Hall/Oates record with & briefly tour with Eddie Kendricks and David Ruffin, and you get . . ironically . . . . . . both PIR and Motown connections for the most successful (in terms of most #1, top 10 and top 20 hits) recording duo in rock history.
I have a few records which Darryl Hall is credited as writer or as a musician that were recorded with the future MFSB guys, but I didn't know Gamble & Huff asked both Hall & Oates to join the staff at PIR. Thanks for that info.
You can hear a number of the projects Hall worked on on the Funkadelphia CD & LP called "MFSB Muthafunksonofabitch". Just looking at the credits, he mainly worked through John Madara, playing piano on tracks by artists like Race Street Chinatown Band, Alliance, and Cupit.
got me DD !! ..... who? what ??? :icon_confused:.....
-- And, if the Salsoul Orchestra had time for :
Oooohhhh, thank you for posting this album cover and track listing!
What were The Salsoul Strings? A different moniker for The Salsoul Orchestra? On The Anthology of The Salsoul Orchestra released by suss'd in earl 2000s there are a couple of Saturday Night Fever covers that the orchestra did. On this album of the Strings there is another Bee Gees cover. I would like to get together a list of all their albums, but now I discover there is a Strings thing? How many albums did they do?
Most of all I am interested in YOU LIGHT UP MY LIFE.
After discovering this song, sung by Loleatta Holloway, which I think is unbeaten by anyone, I would love to hear the Strings' version. Is it instrumental?
Also, after careful inspection of the Loleatta Holloway Anthology put out by Suss'd around that same time, the tracks on the "Love" cd (the second cd of the anthology) I have found that the tracks that I love a great deal more than the others on that disc were all produced by Floyd Smith.
I think his production is fantastic, and coupled with Loleatta's fine vocals, he did wonders. The only other great pairing of that sort that I can think of is the wonderful Shirley Bassey lps from the early 70s (great orchestrations and the vocals, I Capricorn, Something...).
Has this Floyd Smith done other work for great female vocalists?
Unidisc just issued this album on CD and copies of Salsoul Strings on Lp are abundant on ebay. I heard some of those covers on Salsoul Orchestra's Anthologies and they aren't much to my ears. I like their originals much more and I bought every other disc that Unidisc reissued except this one.
Here the link the allmusic's Salsoul Orchestra discography!
Also, after careful inspection of the Loleatta Holloway Anthology put out by Suss'd around that same time, the tracks on the "Love" cd (the second cd of the anthology) I have found that the tracks that I love a great deal more than the others on that disc were all produced by Floyd Smith.
I think his production is fantastic, and coupled with Loleatta's fine vocals, he did wonders. The only other great pairing of that sort that I can think of is the wonderful Shirley Bassey lps from the early 70s (great orchestrations and the vocals, I Capricorn, Something...).
Has this Floyd Smith done other work for great female vocalists?
Hi Westwood,
Floyd Smith was a prominent jazz guitarist who, later in his life, married Loleatta Holloway and became her producer. He was born in 1917...so he was much older than Loleatta, who was born in 1946. He and the Salsoul Orchestra had a minor dance hit with a tune titled "I Just Can't Give You Up" that sounds very much like a Barry White record.
Floyd Smith was a prominent jazz guitarist who, later in his life, married Loleatta Holloway and became her producer. He was born in 1917...so he was much older than Loleatta, who was born in 1946. He and the Salsoul Orchestra had a minor dance hit with a tune titled "I Just Can't Give You Up" that sounds very much like a Barry White record.
He did another tune for Salsoul as an artist, but I haven't been able to find out if it was officially released on 45 back in the 70s. It's a track called 'I'll Be True'. I first discovered it as an instrumental on the Anvil Band record, which was a mish-mash of instrumentals produced by Vince Montana, Joe Bataan and Floyd Smith. In a number of cases, they were the instrumental mixes of songs that were released as vocals earlier.
I discovered a vocal mix of the Floyd Smith 'I'll Be True' track on a volume of the Salsoul From The Vaults CD series that Unidisc put out. I'm thinking since it was noted that Tom Moulton was the guy Unidisc had doing the remastering their various CDs, he might have dug that one out of the vault. That might explain why I haven't been able to find any mention of Joe Bataan's 'Continental Square Dance', which was an instrumental on the Anvil Band record, was put as a vocal version on the Unidisc reissue of his 1974 Salsoul record, but I don't see any record of it having been released back in the 70s.
* * * * *
did you know that Gamble and Huff offered Daryl Hall and John Oates positions as staff writers at PIR? Hall and Oates turned them down, saying they didn't want to be "part of someone else's sound".
* * * * *
And fast forward roughly 10 years, when Hall/Oates record with & briefly tour with Eddie Kendricks and David Ruffin, and you get . . ironically . . . . . . both PIR and Motown connections for the most successful (in terms of most #1, top 10 and top 20 hits) recording duo in rock history.
and I gained a whole new respect for Hall and Oates for not only having the guts and good taste to bring Ruffin and Kendricks on stage (if I were a singer I probably would have been too shy to even approach such legends) but also not falling prey to the same mistake so many other singers made when performing with their idols: trading the lead vocals with them....once while channel surfing I saw Michael Bolton sharing the stage with Percy Sledge and sharing vocals with him on "When a Man Loves a Woman" and I thought: "Why?"
I figured I'd add something to this old thread, rather than starting a new one. There were a couple of notable Motown Funk Brothers members who went on to play on various Sigma Sound philly productions. One guy was Andrew Smith, who was the main drummer for the Young Professionals productions on Atlantic and Atco (Young Professionals consisted of Phil Hurtt, Bunny Sigler, Tony Bell, and LeBaron Taylor). His drumming is easy to pick out from Earl Young because he has a way of emphasizing the hits on the hi-hat on every beat. And his snare hits weren't as hard as Earl Young's. Here are examples of tracks he played on:
The other Funk Brother was bass player Bob Babbitt, the guy who played the infamous bass solo on Scorpio by Dennis Coffey. Looking at Discogs, Babbitt's earliest Philly production was playing some of the cuts on Blue Magic's 1974 LP 'Magic Of The Blue' as well as Major Harris' 'My Way' LP from the same year (the one with 'Love Won't Let Me Wait'). I'm not exactly familiar with his style of playing versus someone like Michael Sugarbear Foreman or Raymond Earl, but Discogs says he was the sole bassist on these LPs/cuts
This Raes Lp also had Charles Collins on drums, a member of MFSB, Salsoul Orchestra and The Monster Orchestra, as well as keyboardist 'Cotton' Kent, another Sigma Studio regular
I figured I'd add something to this old thread, rather than starting a new one. There were a couple of notable Motown Funk Brothers members who went on to play on various Sigma Sound philly productions. One guy was Andrew Smith, who was the main drummer for the Young Professionals productions on Atlantic and Atco (Young Professionals consisted of Phil Hurtt, Bunny Sigler, Tony Bell, and LeBaron Taylor). His drumming is easy to pick out from Earl Young because he has a way of emphasizing the hits on the hi-hat on every beat. And his snare hits weren't as hard as Earl Young's. Here are examples of tracks he played on:
The other Funk Brother was bass player Bob Babbitt, the guy who played the infamous bass solo on Scorpio by Dennis Coffey. Looking at Discogs, Babbitt's earliest Philly production was playing some of the cuts on Blue Magic's 1974 LP 'Magic Of The Blue' as well as Major Harris' 'My Way' LP from the same year (the one with 'Love Won't Let Me Wait'). I'm not exactly familiar with his style of playing versus someone like Michael Sugarbear Foreman or Raymond Earl, but Discogs says he was the sole bassist on these LPs/cuts
This Raes Lp also had Charles Collins on drums, a member of MFSB, Salsoul Orchestra and The Monster Orchestra, as well as keyboardist 'Cotton' Kent, another Sigma Studio regular
Disco Funk
wasn't Bob Babbitt the musician who appeared to get quite emotional when being interviewed by Michelle Ndegeocello in "Standing in the Shadows of Motown"? As I recall, she was asking him about being one of the few white members of the Funk Brothers early on, and the scene was really touching. Then he played the bass line from "What's Going On" and my jaw hit the floor....it was so fluid and melodic.
wasn't Bob Babbitt the musician who appeared to get quite emotional when being interviewed by Michelle Ndegeocello in "Standing in the Shadows of Motown"? As I recall, she was asking him about being one of the few white members of the Funk Brothers early on, and the scene was really touching. Then he played the bass line from "What's Going On" and my jaw hit the floor....it was so fluid and melodic.
I don't remember the documentary well, but he was white guy. Him and Dennis Coffey, who played the psychedelic wah guitar, were the only two white guys in the Funk Brothers, if I recall correctly. I don't know about Andrew Smith. I don't think they had him in the movie.
I never saw any real competition between the two. By the time the 70's rolled around, Motown was pretty much an establishment and wasn't as Hungry as they were back in the 60's when they were really Hustling. That's what MADE them, the HUSTLE!!! They had Atlantic Records, Stax Records, Mercury Records, King Records, and other Record Labels to contend with back then.
The 70's were Philly International's Hustling period!!! They were Hungry then, and that's why they were putting out hit, after hit, after hit, just like Motown did back in the 60's.
Although Motown was still putting out good records back in the 70's, most of it's Major artists who were there from the beginning, were beginning to Jump Ship, and go onto other labels!!! Most of this had to do with contractual disagreements, promotions, or just dealing with Berry Gordy PERIOD!!! (JESUS CHRIST)
Philly's sound was more EARTHY than Motown's was. Motown had more of a more Commercial Sound, while Philly's Sound was more Urban!
This is really a great topic to discuss though...............................
'NUFF SAID
Last edited by KBallenger53; May 5th, 2009 at 11:15 AM.
That's one reason why I don't collect Motown music from the 60s, it's just too pop music to me. It's got soul, but it doesn't have the funk factor that I prefer. That's one reason why I never liked the 'Funk Brothers' name, because I feel it's a little misleading. :)
By the 70s, Motown got a little more grit into it's sound. First it dabbled with a little rock in it's sound with the late 60s Norman Whitefield productions, but it still lacked the funky grit that a lot of the 70s dance tracks would have thanks to the West Coast studio musicians like Melvin Ragin, Scott Edwards and James Gadson.
The Philly Sound was definitely urban. I don't think it ever got pop-schmaltzy, with the exception of some of Tom Bell's mid to late 70s work, which is the only philly music I've avoided collecting, like the track below, one of his proteges Derek & Cyndi
o.k remicks what about a motown song sung by an ex motown act released on philadelphia international records....
DISCODISK ......can you provide the answer ... (please :icon_question:)
________________________________________
And LOOK ! another shared Philly/Motown song
from :
( the voice accompanying this ..seems appropriate ....
........ hasn't everyone sung along to this song at one time or another :icon_mrgreen::icon_mrgreen::icon_mrgreen:)
*****
Last edited by remicks; February 11th, 2010 at 03:05 AM.
What I 'm wondering is , how fierce was the competition between the two ? Were they arch enemies .... two fiercely competing recording camps .... or something much more congenial ??
One thing curious : a general review suggests to me that Motown did not do covers of Philadelphia International songs ... the one big exception being Thelma Houston's remake of DON'T LEAVE THIS WAY .
I can't think of others .... disco experts ... what say you??
And conversely, what Motown songs if any, did Philadelphia International take and redo into their style ?
:icon_question:
*****
the post Diana Ross Supremes covered the O'Jays "Love Train" but I often wondered if Motown had some kind of policy against covering very many Gamble-Huff songs specifically? I say "specifically" because Motown sure covered lots of other songs from outside their stable of writers. 3/8/2010
DISCODISK ......can you provide the answer ... (please :icon_question:)
________________________________________
sorry REMICKS i forgot
i probily messed with your mind i worded that wrong i used the word sang instead of performed
so
the ex motown act that performed a motown song on philly int is........
heres the motown song i chose [could have picked the tops] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3zg-3QVsZw
and the philly int release
BT& TB being bobby taylor and thom bell so its mr BOBBY TAYLOR :icon_mrgreen:
sorry REMICKS i forgot
i probily messed with your mind i worded that wrong i used the word sang instead of performed
so
the ex motown act that performed a motown song on philly int is........
heres the motown song i chose [could have picked the tops] YouTube - Jackson 5- I Can't Quit Your Love
and the philly int release
BT& TB being bobby taylor and thom bell so its mr BOBBY TAYLOR :icon_mrgreen:
Thanks for that info......I've always wondered about this record...
1975 Disco Compilation Consensus ranked
429) I CAN'T QUIT YOUR LOVE - B.T. & T.B.
(Phila. Intl.) C= 2; Total points = 2
1 week on the chart (7/12/75); Peak: #38
So the mysterious initials stand for Bobby Taylor & Thom Bell!!! Very interesting.
Is this the same tune or another tune the same title?
354) I CAN'T QUIT YOUR LOVE - Buck
(Playboy) F= 8; Total points = 8
1 week on the chart (9/27/75); Peak: #33
I think that BT & TB's 'I Can't Quit Your Love' was probably a West Coast recording. Maybe Thom Bell scored the strings, or they added some overdubs in philly. Two of the arrangers, Bobby Taylor and Gene Page I think were based on the west coast only. For sure Gene Page. The flip side 'Queen Of The Ghetto' is definitely a west coast cut, with the drummer sounding like Love Unlimited Orchestra and regular session musician Ed Greene.
Tyree Kevin, to my ears, Earl Young's disco drumming was part motown (pre-LA), part Al Green's 'Let's Stay Together'.
What I 'm wondering is , how fierce was the competition between the two ? Were they arch enemies .... two fiercely competing recording camps .... or something much more congenial ??
One thing curious : a general review suggests to me that Motown did not do covers of Philadelphia International songs ... the one big exception being Thelma Houston's remake of DON'T LEAVE THIS WAY . I can't think of others .... disco experts ... what say you??
And conversely, what Motown songs if any, did Philadelphia International take and redo into their style ?
:icon_question:
*****
I found another Motown song tht PIR covered :
TOUCH ME IN THE MORNING MFSB
Starts off sleepy & I think the dominant lead sax in this version is a mistake (the lyrics of this song matter & I think either the gruffness of Teddy Pendergrass's voice lamenting the song's theme, or the gentle cooing of the Three Degrees would have been much more purposeful)
....but by 1:45 it picks up speed :
I love this bongo-ing instrumental version from 1973 otherwise .
- Pay attention world:
- Hear comes disco !!
- It' s unfolding right before your very ears !!!
******
Last edited by remicks; February 12th, 2011 at 04:23 PM.
Bob Babitt was the "other" bass player at Motown. I consider Babitt being 1A and Jamerson being 1. It`s hard to believe that one label can have two greats like Babitt and Jamerson. That`s Babitt getting emotional describing the Detroit riots as well as his fellow players at Motown. Babitt and Jack Ashford did "American Idol" as the Funk Brothers.
Hey Disco Funk: I was aware of Al Jackson`s contributions to Earl Young`s style but I`m studying Pistol Allen`s obvious influence on American music. Since you know a lot about his style, I might have to pick your brains. Hey Disco Funk, who`s that playing on Erucu?
The Three Degrees recorded Marvin Gaye's "Distant Lover" on their "International" LP release on PIR in 1975. A truly great song and one of my faves on this album.
The Three Degrees recorded Marvin Gaye's "Distant Lover" on their "International" LP release on PIR in 1975. A truly great song and one of my faves on this album.
Thanks for adding that one , Funkin'!
Here it is:
DISTANT LOVER
Sultry.
and here's another,
In 1980, under his own name , Norman Harris (with the Sweethearts, I presume, doing the vocals) did a version of Stevie Wonder's I WISH
I WISH
adding another one ---- a Stevie cover again:
Thad Jones & Mel Lewis
I donno......... this one sorta hurts my ears .... (!?)
*****
Last edited by remicks; March 8th, 2011 at 01:07 AM.
Has anyone mentioned Carolyn Crawford, an underated singer imho, on Motown in the 60s and recorded three singles on PIR in the mid 70s. Never seemed to get the best material tho 'Just Got To Be More Careful' was a decent soul dancer.
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Originally Written by remicks
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