Was Elton John's PHILADELPHIA FREEDOM Disco??

[remicks]

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Since Garry has a current thread about Elton John I thought that rather than stray off topic on his I'd introduce a seperate tie-in one about something I've been wondering about for awhile.

To the point :
Was PHILADELPHIA FREEDOM disco ??

I have an MCA promo package from that time.... 1975 ... callled PEOPLE WILL DANCE (THE GREAT MCA DISCO DISC) and of the twelve cuts on it, PHILADELPHIA FREEDOM jumps out to me now as perhaps the most disco.

Someone ... a dj (?) .... has written on the jacket next to the title --- yes 120

So according to him it's nicely disco paced at 120 BPMs ....w/ lots of ongoing busy Barry White strings .... delicious french horns ....trombones .... ... fluttering flute ....prominent percussion ...bass... tambourine ... a Philadelphia theme ..... lengthy 5:36 running time ....

I've always loved this record from the day it was first released when I first heard it .....but I never really thought of it as disco at the time ..... I wonder why not ??

My error?? ... :icon_redface: :icon_rolleyes:
What say you ????



*****
don't chu know I lo-ove lo-ove lo-ove you ...........yes I do !

[garrybcoston]

To give my personal opinion, I would say no; however, the song's style is indicative of popular (pop) music of the time, that is, basically all music during that era had a taste, style and flavor of disco, and could be danced to.

And I do remember some DJ's spinning it on the turntables early on in the night before pounding us senseless with familiar disco tunes.

Garry

[the disco kid]

it's disco to me, and MFSB did a very good cover of it as well that was played in the clubs too.

[Lance Andersen]

*****

Since Garry has a current thread about Elton John I thought that rather than stray off topic on his I'd introduce a seperate tie-in one about something I've been wondering about for awhile.

To the point :
Was PHILADELPHIA FREEDOM disco ??

I have an MCA promo package from that time.... 1975 ... callled PEOPLE WILL DANCE (THE GREAT MCA DISCO DISC) and of the twelve cuts on it, PHILADELPHIA FREEDOM jumps out to me now as perhaps the most disco.

Someone ... a dj (?) .... has written on the jacket next to the title --- yes 120

So according to him it's nicely disco paced at 120 BPMs ....w/ lots of ongoing busy Barry White strings .... delicious french horns ....trombones .... ... fluttering flute ....prominent percussion ...bass... tambourine ... a Philadelphia theme ..... lengthy 5:36 running time ....

I've always loved this record from the day it was first released when I first heard it .....but I never really thought of it as disco at the time ..... I wonder why not ??

My error?? ... :icon_redface: :icon_rolleyes:
What say you ????



*****
don't chu know I lo-ove lo-ove lo-ove you ...........yes I do !

I would say no it is not.


Bonus question, do you know what the song was about?:icon_cool:

[pepper1dancer]

Bonus question, do you know what the song was about?:icon_cool:

Was it Mr. er, Ms. Billie Jean King he was singing about?

[Simon White]

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To the point :
Was PHILADELPHIA FREEDOM disco ??

I have an MCA promo package from that time.... 1975 ... callled PEOPLE WILL DANCE (THE GREAT MCA DISCO DISC) and of the twelve cuts on it, PHILADELPHIA FREEDOM jumps out to me now as perhaps the most disco.

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Brings up a whole set of other questions this. Wasn't it recorded at Sigma Sound and therefore with all the usual session musicians ? But it doesn't have the right amount of 'bite' because Elton's mainstream success and the powers that be wouldn't have allowed it at the time.

What are the other tracks on the sampler if this one jumps out as the most 'Disco' Remicks?

I would say it doesn't have a traditional 'Disco' sound and therefore is just a danceable pop record in the same way as Leif Garretts version of 'Feel The Need' is although the original is a Disco classic, or in fact most Abba records are....... in other words probably something that you would have heard at the time in a very mainstream, not very credible club.

[Lance Andersen]

Bonus question, do you know what the song was about?:icon_cool:

Was it Mr. er, Ms. Billie Jean King he was singing about?

Very Close, Billie Jean King was part of the story, but there is more to it

[nrgbeat]

Funny you should mention this song Remicks as I heard it on the radio the other day and thought it had a disco flavor too.

Another sang that I never thought of as disco, but was played in discos at the time was Barry Manilow's "It's A Miracle". I guess it's all in peoples perceptions.

[markydefad]

I've always loved "Philadelphia Freedom", Elton's tribute to Billie Jean King & the Philly soul Gamble-Huff sound. My take is that it was considered a Pop record using "disco" production techniques, similar to Elton's production of Kiki Dee's "I've Got The Music In Me." I bet they were both played in discos back then...but more outside the New York City snobbery arena. Kiki Dee's record has a lot of rockish guitar in it...so that seems to lessen its disco appeal--but Barry Walters has played it on his radio show. I think they both should be included--because I bet lotsa folks danced to these records.

[markydefad]

Listening to the Four Seasons' "Who Loves You" & December, 1963 (Oh What a Night) awhile back, I was amazed how "disco" these records sound now---back then (in 1975-76) they just seemed bouncy pop "radio records" ---but the "sound" is very "disco" when listened to now. It's the production technique reflecting the sound of the times..."pop disco" I guess. But these records were played in some clubs, especially outside the NEW YORK CITY snobbery belt.

Barry Manilow's "It's A Miracle" was another one....this did actually chart briefly on a New York City Billboard chart... :icon_exclaim:

[remicks]

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It's interesting that this song made a ZERO dent on your charts isn't it Marky ....

I gave PF a couple more spins ....
When you play this record .....it begins with a 4/4 beat and dancing strings and right away the "disco' light goes on.

But once past the intro it reverts to a heavy 2/4 kick drum beat like the Thom Bell sound of the earlier seventies ....that THEN CAME YOU/I'LL BE AROUND sound.

I think that in of itself was just enough to tilt it towards being a more old fashioned soulful sounding song. Music was changing that quickly then that I think it gave it a certain retro tinge we would have been aware of then but that we no longer discern in it today ....



Simon , l'll post those titles hopefully this evening....
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[Simon White]

Listening to the Four Seasons' "Who Loves You" & December, 1963 (Oh What a Night) awhile back, I was amazed how "disco" these records sound now---back then (in 1975-76) they just seemed bouncy pop "radio records" ---but the "sound" is very "disco" when listened to now. It's the production technique reflecting the sound of the times..."pop disco" I guess. But these records were played in some clubs, especially outside the NEW YORK CITY snobbery belt.

Barry Manilow's "It's A Miracle" was another one....this did actually chart briefly on a New York City Billboard chart... :icon_exclaim:

I'd go for 'Oh What Night' as danceable pop (and a great record at that !) but 'Who Loves You' as definately disco.

[markydefad]

remicks,

Detroit had the Doobie Brothers' Black Water + ELO + Kiss !!! listed on the first chart they posted!!! Remember the first time Billboard went outside NYC and all those cities in some chain posted all those ROCK records?--it's in the early 1975 charts....


...went back & retrieved this from the 1975 charts:

March 22, 1975

This week Billboard tried something new: A 5th chart from a U.S. disco chain called Uncle Sam's Disco ranked the top 5 from 7 U.S cities. This is the first and only time this was attempted:

By Audience Response:
Chart #1 = Houston, Texas (#1: LADY MARMALADE)
Chart #2 = Detroit, Michigan (#1: FIRE)
Chart #3 = Lincoln, Nebraska (#1: PICK UP THE PIECES)
Chart #4 = Des Moines, Iowa (#1: ROLL ON DOWN THE HIGHWAY)
Chart #5 = Minneapolis, Minnesota (#1: FIRE)
Chart #6 = Syracuse, New York (#1: PICK UP THE PIECES)
Chart #7 = Buffalo, New York (#1: FIRE)

The Compilation Consensus from this batch....

* oddball choices for DISCO:

1) FIRE - Ohio Players
(20 points; charts 1,2,4,5,7) (Reached #1 on POP chart)
2) PICK UP THE PIECES - Average White Band
(19 points; charts 1,2,3,5,6) (#1 POP)
3) LADY MARMALADE - Labelle
(13 points; charts 1,5,6,7) (#1 POP)
4) EXPRESS - B.T. Express
(8 points; charts 1,4,7) (#4 POP)
5) GET DANCIN' - Disco Tex & His Sex-o-lettes
(8 points; charts 3,4,6) (#10 POP)
6) HIJACK - Herbie Mann
(6 points; charts 1, 6) (#14 POP)
7) * ROLL ON DOWN THE HIGHWAY - Bachman Turner !!!!
(5 points; chart 4) (#14 POP)
8. * DON'T CALL US (WE'LL CALL YOU) - Sugarloaf !!!!
(4 points; charts 3, 5) (#9 POP)
9) * BLACK WATER - Doobie Brothers !!!!
(4 points; chart 2) (#1 POP)
10) * SUFFRAGETTE CITY - David Bowie !!!!
(4 points; chart 7) (didn't chart POP Top 40)

11) DO IT (TIL YOU'RE SATISFIED) - B.T. Express
(3 points; chart 3) (#2 POP)
12) * (WHEN) I'M A KID - Demis Roussos (WUT???)
(3 points; chart 4) (did not chart in POP Top 40)
13) SHAME, SHAME, SHAME - Shirley & Company
(2 points; charts 5,6) (#12 POP)
14) MACHINE GUN - The Commodores
(2 points; chart 3) (#22 POP--in JULY, 1974!!!!!)
15) * STRUTTER - Kiss !!!!
(2 points; chart 2) (did not chart Top 40 POP)
16) * LOVIN' YOU - Minnie Riperton !!! (slow-danicn" I guess)
(1 point; chart 7) (#1 POP)
17) * ROLL OVER BEETHOVEN - ELO !!!!
(1 point; chart 2) (did not chart Top 40 POP)

Observations:

1) mostly records that were BIG POP RADIO HITS;
2) at least 3 months behind what's currently HOT in NYC;
3) ROCK records do influence into the tally here; whereas they do NOT in NYC charts.

[remicks]

*****

This is so fascincinating. :icon_cool::icon_mrgreen: How and why did I miss this ???
Did you exclude these from your year-end list??

Odd then that Elton isn't a part of that group ... by March of 1975 he was sitting pretty at #1 for two weeks in Billboard with PF !!



Hilarious !! :

14) MACHINE GUN - The Commodores
(2 points; chart 3) (#22 POP--in JULY, 1974!!!!!)

Lionel's sister must have been working at that reporting store !!:icon_rolleyes::icon_lol:

(poor Tom Moulton .... this is why straight whites .........oh, never mind ..... )


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[markydefad]

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This is so fascincinating. :icon_cool::icon_mrgreen: How and why did I miss this ???
Did you exclude these from your year-end list??

Odd then that Elton isn't a part of that group ... by March of 1975 he was sitting pretty at #1 for two weeks in Billboard with PF !!

I know. I was thinking that Elton had peaked earlier than the first disco chart--but it was actually #1 Pop in the spring of 1975...so that's why I went back and looked for this chart.

No, I didn't used these in the year-end list because they seemed out of place...or maybe I just added the extra points to the records that did chart like Shirley & Co., etc. I actually can't recall...but I think it was the latter.

Hilarious !! :

14) MACHINE GUN - The Commodores
(2 points; chart 3) (#22 POP--in JULY, 1974!!!!!)

Lionel's sister must have been working at that reporting store !!:icon_rolleyes::icon_lol:

(poor Tom Moulton .... this is why straight whites .........oh, never mind ..... )


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This was called a tad "behind the times"...records travelled at slower speeds from city to city back then. They were all way behind NYC...even the more with-it places. Hey this was from Lincoln, Nebraska....they're probably still dancing to the "Macarena" there now.

[paul]

Love the song but I never did and still don't consider it disco.

[markydefad]

*****

Since Garry has a current thread about Elton John I thought that rather than stray off topic on his I'd introduce a seperate tie-in one about something I've been wondering about for awhile.

To the point :
Was PHILADELPHIA FREEDOM disco ??

I have an MCA promo package from that time.... 1975 ... callled PEOPLE WILL DANCE (THE GREAT MCA DISCO DISC) and of the twelve cuts on it, PHILADELPHIA FREEDOM jumps out to me now as perhaps the most disco.

Someone ... a dj (?) .... has written on the jacket next to the title --- yes 120

So according to him it's nicely disco paced at 120 BPMs ....w/ lots of ongoing busy Barry White strings .... delicious french horns ....trombones .... ... fluttering flute ....prominent percussion ...bass... tambourine ... a Philadelphia theme ..... lengthy 5:36 running time ....

I've always loved this record from the day it was first released when I first heard it .....but I never really thought of it as disco at the time ..... I wonder why not ??

My error?? ... :icon_redface: :icon_rolleyes:
What say you ????



*****
don't chu know I lo-ove lo-ove lo-ove you ...........yes I do !

callled PEOPLE WILL DANCE (THE GREAT MCA DISCO DISC)

remicks,

Is that the one that has the discoish Kiki Dee remake of Nancy Wilson's "How Glad I Am"? Also, Neil Sedaka's "That's When The Music Takes Me"? If so, I also found it at Amoeba awhile back...BOTH these tracks were mentioned in Tom Moulton's Disco Mix column but never charted on a Disco Action Chart....

[remicks]

callled PEOPLE WILL DANCE (THE GREAT MCA DISCO DISC)

remicks,

Is that the one that has the discoish Kiki Dee remake of Nancy Wilson's "How Glad I Am"? Also, Neil Sedaka's "That's Where (when?) The Music Takes Me"? If so, I also found it at Amoeba awhile back...BOTH these tracks were mentioned in Tom Moulton's Disco Mix column but never charted on a Disco Action Chart....

Oh oh Marky ......:icon_rolleyes: :icon_redface: :icon_rolleyes: .......just thought of a whole 'nother section for you ...... : songs that Tom mentioned ... but that didn't chart .....:icon_razz: :icon_mrgreen: :icon_biggrin: ( You know I'm more than half serious ! )



Yep HOW GLAD I AM is on it ......same LP

Simon White :
What are the other tracks on the sampler if this one jumps out as the most 'Disco' Remicks?

Here're the tracks:


"PEOPLE WILL DANCE" (The Great MCA Disco Disc)

Side One

PEOPLE WILL DANCE (3:36) --- The Lost Gonzo Band --- funky rock. Sly Stone-ish. great recurring lline "You gotta be a dancer if you wanna play drums in the band"

MICHAEL'S THEME (3:51) --- El Chicano --- my favourite find on here . Barry White type instrumental with a latin slant. Congas /violins/ guitar /organ/trombones. Sweet and soulful. (handwritten note : yes 86 )

WALKING THE DOG ( 4:35 ... wears thin by 3:30) --- Roger Daltrey --- A cover of the Rufus Thomas tune. great cowbell/sticks rhythm . Sax solo. Vocals not good . (handwritten note: fun 98)

SUSPICIOUS LOVE (3:11) --- Moon Williams .... if constantly pounding a cowbell = disco , then .....

HOW GLAD I AM (3:56) --- Kiki Dee -- rock vocal with a very upfront drum . Guitars and piano and that drum...(handwritten note: yes 120)

THAT'S WHEN THE MUSIC TAKES ME ( 3:35) ---Neil Sedaka --- Piano, drums, tambourine ... sounds sort of like a train. Distractingly high voice.

Side Two

PHILADELPHIA FREEDOM (5:38)--- The Elton John Band ( handwritten note: yes 120 )

LOVE DROPS ( 3:22) ---The Lost Gonzo Band ---Closer to hillbilly but includes an organ ....

PUT IT WHERE YOU WANT IT ( 5:09) Average White Band --- Disco candidate ! Great bass line. B.B. King type guitaring. Horns. Low brow lyrics (they admitted they were average)


(BABY) DON'T LET IT MESS YOUR MIND (3:39) --- Donny Gerrard --- Sedaka is back ! He wrote this one. A slowww ballad..... sounds like WILDFIRE ....she went callin' Wiiiiildfire!

SAME OLD STORY (3:04)--- Freeway --- (who??) --- horn/bass driven rock leaning on funky. some wah wahs. there is a brief PSYCHEDELIC SHACK sounding segment for 15 seconds or so

I'VE GOT THE MUSIC IN ME ( 5:00) The Kiki Dee Band --- I've got the music in me I've got the music in me I've got the music in me I've got the music in me I've got the ....(handwritten note: yes)


``````````````````


MCA was one of the worst wasn't it ........



In fact, I think you could probably count their significant disco contributions on one hand :icon_razz:......



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[Lance Andersen]

Bonus question, do you know what the song was about?:icon_cool:

Was it Mr. er, Ms. Billie Jean King he was singing about?

Ok, time for the answer. I as mentioned you were very close. The song was a tribute to both Billie Jean King and the Philadelphia Freedom's, which was the World Team Tennis Team that Billie Jean was on at the time. Elton is a big Tennis fan as well as a good pal of Billie Jean.

[remicks]

Brings up a whole set of other questions this. Wasn't it recorded at Sigma Sound and therefore with all the usual session musicians ? But it doesn't have the right amount of 'bite' because Elton's mainstream success and the powers that be wouldn't have allowed it at the time.

.

Simon I'm curious about your angle on this ...... who would have been "the powers that be" and why wouldn't they allow it ??
I wouldn't think at this point in his career anyone was telling Elton anything .... or thinking that they should ... since it seemed everything he touched turned to gold.
An example of how Elton was calling the shots is the time length of PHILADELPHIA FREEDOM .....5:36 !! Unheard of length for a single....and a likely doomsday marketing strategy ...
But it was said it was done by Elton on purpose because a lot of radio stations had already given MCA flack aout BENNIE AND THE JETS being way too long at 5:10. Elton's response to such demands .... make the next song longer !!! :icon_razz:

I think that the reason it doesn't have that "bite" is because as great as Elton John is in most respects musically ... he's simply short changed when it comes to the "boogie" gene. :icon_razz:
It isn't for want of trying ....but Elton just couldn't quite nail it ... just didn't seem to be able to make that disco connection .

He didn't even want to release BENNIE AND THE JETS as a single ....a #1 R&B charter ...... thought it would fail .....:icon_redface: :icon_rolleyes:



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[markydefad]

"PEOPLE WILL DANCE" (The Great MCA Disco Disc)


My take on this compilation is a label desperately trying to make their recent product fit into a hot new category in which it didn't really fit. You can dance to some of it--but it wasn't really "disco" per se.

However, I wanted to hear the Kiki Dee cover of "How Glad I Am"; I trolled thorugh her section at Amoeba for months and never saw that track on any of her old LPs--then, one fine day, I saw this sampler and snapped it up.

[remicks]

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So while Elton may have dedicated this song to Billie Jean King ...or had her Philadelphia Freedom team (tennis had city teams?????... ) in mind originally ...
there's nothing written in the actual lyrics on her behalf ... nor one line about anything to do with tennis ...:icon_razz:
so I'm not sure how the song actually paid homage to her.

In fact the lyrics are all over the place ..... a love-forty disaster :


I used to be a rolling stone you know
If the cause was right
I'd leave to find the answer on the road
I used to be a heart beating for someone
But the times have changed
The less I say the more my work gets done

`Cause I live and breathe this Philadelphia freedom
From the day that I was born I've waved the flag
Philadelphia freedom took me knee-high to a man
Yeah gave me peace of mind my daddy never had

Oh Philadelphia freedom shine on me, I love you
Shine a light through the eyes of the ones left behind
Shine a light shine a light
Shine a light won't you shine a light
Philadelphia freedom I love you, yes I do

If you choose to you can live your life alone
Some people choose the city
Some others choose the good old family home
I like living easy without family ties
Till the whippoorwill of freedom zapped me
Right between the eyes


To a large degree , I suspect this "Philadelphia Freedom tennis "angle was little more than a back-door way for these two Brits to cash in on the upcoming bicentennial .


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[paul]

I think you hit on something there remicks. I love the song and I heard it was dedicated to BJK. I just kind of accepted that because I never could relate the lyrics to the dedication. I thought there must be some hidden meaning in the words that went over my head. :icon_rolleyes::icon_biggrin:
Perhaps though it comes back down to money (surprise...surprise :icon_lol:) because bicentennial fever was everywhere.

[remicks]

I think you hit on something there remicks. I love the song and I heard it was dedicated to BJK. I just kind of accepted that because I never could relate the lyrics to the dedication. I thought there must be some hidden meaning in the words that went over my head. :icon_rolleyes::icon_biggrin:
.

.... I was exatly the same Paul. I think the general response to radio songs back then was to give them the benefit of the doubt. I'm frequently disappointed when I finally discover what it is they were singing .:icon_razz: :icon_sad: :icon_cry:

I find this especially true with Elton John . His phrasing was so exquisite .... it seemed a given that he was expressing lyrics a little more deep than was typical.

That's what made those two such a great team ....whatever words Bernie came up with .... it was Elton's delivery of them , his ability to turn a phrase ... that made them seem so special .

Once they parted Elton's stuff really diminished into the ordinary ..............imo....


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[remicks]

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:icon_razz::icon_eek:

from superseventies.com:

----- "Philadelphia Freedom" broke in America in early March 1975, and by April, was a gold record, the top-selling single in the country. It quickly became Elton's most popular 45 yet, a fact that didn't surprise his lyricist, Bernie Taupin. Bernie, though, downplayed his role in the song's success.


"I'm quite honest about it," he said. "I'm sure fifty percent of the people who liked it never even listened to the words. People don't buy a record because the words are good, or the words sound nice. They buy it for the old thing melody, or 'It's got a good beat, man. Yeah, I can dance to that one.' The words, at least in the beginning, are secondary.
"Later on they may play a part, because you have to have something to sing along to. But on 'Philadelphia Freedom,' or any of the uptempo things, the words just aren't that important. If they're palatable, and you can sing them, that's all that matters."
:icon_eek: from Bernie Taupin!!! :icon_eek:




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