A Northern Soul Urban Legend ?

[remicks]

*****

marmite7 :
The North / South split in the UK, started in the late 60's, with psych & prog rock taking off in London, but The North sticking to their guns and demanding soul still be played.

The only output for these records was from The States and many travelled over as ballast, for the large ships. On arriving in Liverpool etc, the "ballast" was no longer needed and was consequently dumped in warehouses. These became "mecca" for soul fiends.

Marmite , you've made mention of this a couple of times , but in my (limited) readings I have found no other comments concerning this .

While I think it makes for a good story .... it just doesn't ring true to me.
Is there a source of reference for this ??
:icon_smile::icon_cool:

*****

[tony98]

This urban legend has nothing to do with Northern Soul. Years ago i read a book about the Beatles and the legend is that Liverpool dockers found 45s being used as ballast. This is in the late 50's early 60's and the story go's that most of these singles were R & B & Black Rock n' Roll and that these sounds were a big influence on the Merseybeat scene.

[all*that*glitters*]

*****


Marmite , you've made mention of this a couple of times , but in my (limited) readings I have found no other comments concerning this .

While I think it makes for a good story .... it just doesn't ring true to me.
Is there a source of reference for this ??
:icon_smile::icon_cool:

*****

the book 'last night a dj saved my life' by Bill Brewster and Frank Broughton mentions this custom in their chapters on Northern Soul. Check out the updated version of 2006 by Headline Book publishing.

Anyway, it is true!!

I have the (lucky) experience to have bought a lot of vinyl that came from
the US as shipping bulk. The stock was sold in a temporary store here in Amsterdam. This was in the late Seventies, the store lasted for a few months, and the stock was mainly cut-out albums and 45's only. Every variety of musical styles; c&w, jazz, soul, crooner, pop etc. etc was sold. Of course the selection was very limited; lots of crap and damaged goods as well but original releases by labels like Blue Note, Liberty, Verve, Brunswick etc. etc. were available. For the true cratedigger it was possible to find a stack of rare titles in perfect condition. No other damage than the cut-out hole through the cover and all records were sold for peanuts; 3 LP's for 5 Dutch gulden (3 US$)!!
A wet dream for any vinyl collector!! These days this custom is unthinkable but in the 60's and 70's it was quite normal over here :icon_biggrin:

[remicks]

*****


Thanks for the input Tony :icon_biggrin:

And ..... your experience is most interesting All That Glitters ! :icon_biggrin:


Here's why this process and therefore this legend didn't ring as true to me :

A) Most soul records were based out of places like Detroit , Chicago , Memphis , various parts of the deep south ..... so other than labels based out of NYC.... I couldn't grasp how these were being gathered from all these locals to wind up collectively as ship ballast ....???

B) How was it possible that these non-hit Northern Soul type records were pressed in numbers substantial enough to warrant becoming dead weight for shipping...??? I thought only records that broke big were therefore pressed in such numbers ....

C) This phenomena only took place with soul records ??? i.e. ..... No resulting Northern Country & Western (hoedown) scene ?? :icon_razz: :icon_question:

and most importantly :

D) Weren't vinyl records that didn't sell just remelted and repressed to make new ones ??? :icon_question:


So ... only because you personally experienced this ATG ..... can I accept this illogical seeming system as having indeed taken place ....
Thanks for your testimony :icon_cool: :icon_cool:


Spock .... I mean :icon_rolleyes: ...

remicks .....


*****

[all*that*glitters*]

Here's why this process and therefore this legend didn't ring as true to me :

A) Most soul records were based out of places like Detroit , Chicago , Memphis , various parts of the deep south ..... so other than labels based out of NYC.... I couldn't grasp how these were being gathered from all these locals to wind up collectively as ship ballast ....???

I think there was some sort of trade going on. IMO entrepreneurs bought unwanted stock of vinyl and sold it cheaply to overseas wholesalers or used it as cheap ballast for ship cargo. Of course; it was not only the cream of Northern Soul 45's that came to the UK or Europe as shipcargo but ALL unwanted vinyl; c&w, pop, crooners, jazz, classical, mainstream etc. etc. It's wishful thinking to believe that only collectable 45's were shipped! Most of the vinyl was deleted, cut-outs and lots of it arrived damaged anyway...Some people go as far as to assume that perhaps there was a legal loophole that allowed heavy things to be classed as ballast thus avoiding import duty, even the maffia was mentioned...

B) How was it possible that these non-hit Northern Soul type records were pressed in numbers substantial enough to warrant becoming dead weight for shipping...??? I thought only records that broke big were therefore pressed in such numbers ....

At the time when vinyl was king I am pretty sure that more records were produced that any market in the US or the rest of the world could ever consume. How many major and independent labels come out of the US, especially during the 50's and 60's?? Wasn't the USA at that time the heart and soul of popular music? Unhindered by war and crises like over here??? Wasn't it also the place where every household had a recordplayer, radio was ruling and charts like Billboard were introduced?? It took a decade or so before that rich culture took over in Europe but the US were surely ruling in that field in those days....

From what I know the custom in the US at the time was that the distributors took unsold stock back from the stores. I am pretty sure that you as an American know more about the custom of deleted' or 'cut-out' records....


We all know that Americans don't like 'losers' so I am convinced that any 45 or album that didn't chart immediately or was sold in vast quantities just dissapeared from the shelves.... to make way for new releases.
It is very well possible IMO that a distributor just got rid of any excess stock that was gathering dust too long in their warehouses....now combine this unwanted stock from 1 month coming from distributors, record pressing plants, stores, even radio-stations etc etc. from the US....that's a lot of vinyl!! Especially in an era when vinyl was considered as throwaway and NOT as collectable as today. In those days very few people were collecting and there was no eBay.....


So ... only because you personally experienced this ATG ..... can I accept this illogical seeming system as having indeed taken place ....

remicks ..... this is an interesting topic as I have heard the 'ballast' story for years myself. Thank my lucky stars that the records I have bought at the time in Amsterdam are proof of my testimony...and finding albums by Johnny Zamot, Hank Marr, Joe Bataan and so many more amongst all the rubbish in that store is an incredible experience....and I know where these records originated from....

[buckaroo]

I don't understand this either...Because big Northern Soul DJs like Colin Dewhurst were paying large bucks for certain records during the mid and late '70s. Also certain records were expensive and hard to come by when they were released in the '60s.

Not me sayin' it, ask one of the rolling stones, or someone like Dr. Bob Jones.

[Simon White]

*****


Thanks for the input Tony :icon_biggrin:

And ..... your experience is most interesting All That Glitters ! :icon_biggrin:


Here's why this process and therefore this legend didn't ring as true to me :

A) Most soul records were based out of places like Detroit , Chicago , Memphis , various parts of the deep south ..... so other than labels based out of NYC.... I couldn't grasp how these were being gathered from all these locals to wind up collectively as ship ballast ....???

B) How was it possible that these non-hit Northern Soul type records were pressed in numbers substantial enough to warrant becoming dead weight for shipping...??? I thought only records that broke big were therefore pressed in such numbers ....

C) This phenomena only took place with soul records ??? i.e. ..... No resulting Northern Country & Western (hoedown) scene ?? :icon_razz: :icon_question:

and most importantly :

D) Weren't vinyl records that didn't sell just remelted and repressed to make new ones ??? :icon_question:


So ... only because you personally experienced this ATG ..... can I accept this illogical seeming system as having indeed taken place ....
Thanks for your testimony :icon_cool: :icon_cool:


Spock .... I mean :icon_rolleyes: ...

remicks .....


*****

LOL ! :icon_mrgreen:

[Simon White]

I don't understand this either...Because big Northern Soul DJs like Colin Dewhurst were paying large bucks for certain records during the mid and late '70s. Also certain records were expensive and hard to come by when they were released in the '60s.

Not me sayin' it, ask one of the rolling stones, or someone like Dr. Bob Jones.

Ian Dewhirst or Colin Curtis?

[remicks]

LOL ! :icon_mrgreen:

LOL ???
I don't follow ....there's something particularly funny there ??? :icon_question::icon_question:


*****

[QUINNY]

LOL ???
I don't follow ....there's something particularly funny there ??? :icon_question::icon_question:


*****

Maybe the word 'ballast' was being used metaphorically? It's certainly true that merchant seamen would bring back large numbers of US albums and singles to the UK to bump up their earnings. One of the reasons why we had such a well supported Jazz scene in the Southampton area, back in the '50s and '60s.