Perfect POP

**zeca azevedo** · October 25th, 2002, 01:40 PM

Hey fellas,

do you believe in perfect POP? It exists? For me, there's some real POP gems that are perfectly crafted. TAPESTRY by Carole King, THE SUPREMES SING H-D-H and PET SOUNDS by THE BEACH BOYS are rare examples of perfect POP LPs. Perfect POP use to appear in small doses, on singles, not entire albums. Here's a couple of songs of what I call perfect POP music:

- YOU CAN'T HURRY LOVE, by THE SUPREMES
- BIZARRE LOVE TRIANGLE, by NEW ORDER

Do you know some perfect POP SNACKS? Name them for us.

zeca azevedo, the perfect POP artifact

[ This Message was edited by: zeca azevedo on 2002-10-25 14:43 ]

**BrunoRepublic** · October 25th, 2002, 02:22 PM

Pet Shop Boys: Behaviour (for ballads) or Very (for uptempo numbers). As good as pop gets.

Tears For Fears: The Hurting. A classic. Not as slick or polished as "Songs From The Big Chair", but also not played to death either. Also worthy is the very underrated early 90s LP "Elemental".

State Of Grace: obscure 90s UK act that did wonderful "ambient pop" (not a good description, but nothing else comes close). "Pacific Motion" and "Everyone Else's Universe" are compilations of their singles and EPs, and are the ones to get. Avoid the US release of the "Jamboreebop" LP, which is horrid.

Strange Advance: Worlds Away (entire LP) Largely forgotten Canadian act that walked the line between rock and 80s synth pop. Hasn't aged well, but I still love it anyway.

The Spoons: Nova Heart (12" version) -- another treasure from a mostly forgotten Canadian group.

Voice Of America: Story Of Love -- very obscure act that nobody seems to know anything about. This one song of theirs is found on a couple of Canadian 80s compilations...

Limahl: Theme from "The Neverending Story". It's cheese, but I love it, and won't apologize for doing so.

Shirley Bassey: I Capricorn, What Are You Doing The Rest Of Your Life, Pieces Of Dreams

Petula Clark: Such a wonderfully sweet and pure voice! Any number of classic songs that she did from the mid-60s up to 1970 or so. My faves are Don't Sleep In The Subway, Houses, Colour My World, Who Am I, and of course, Downtown.

**SandraDee** · October 25th, 2002, 02:37 PM

I consider perfect pop to be things like:

'Hand Held in Black & White' - Dollar
'The Day Before You Came' - Abba
'Poison Arrow' - ABC
'Love Action' - Human League
'Its a Sin' - Pet Shop Boys
'Holiday' - Madonna
'Love Resurrection' - Alison Moyet
'The Sun Always Shines on TV' - Aha
'Downtown' - Petula Clark
'Popcorn' - Hot Butter
'Sugar Sugar' - The Archies
'Venus' - Shocking Blue
'Laughter in the Rain' - Neil Sedaka
'I Only Want to be with You' - Dusty Springfield
'Summer the First Time' - Bobby Goldsboro

Not necessarily favourites of mine (some are!) but what I consider 'perfect pop'.

**markydefad** · October 25th, 2002, 02:45 PM

Geez...PERFECT POP existed EVERYWHERE in the past...The Beatles, Motown (well, it was POP soul, I guess), The Brill Building songwriters (Goffin/King, Mann/Weil, Greenwich/Barry), Bacharach/David, Phil Spector, Brian Wilson, Elton John, Paul Simon, etc. up til now. Somwhere in the 1990's...it became harder to find good pop songs on the radio...they became extremely bubble-gum cookie-cutter or else ugly. Of course, they still exist...but not like the abundance of the glorious past. (sigh) :roll:

The last No Doubt CD "Rock Steady" is a pure pop delight, IMHO. Otherwise, it's harder to come by these days..

**markydefad** · October 25th, 2002, 02:56 PM

Gawd, Steely Dan...

How could I forget ABBA!!!! Perfect example of pop craftsmanship taking the Brill Building sound of the early 1960's and crafting ear candy of a very high caliber for the entire 1970's into the early 1980's.

And then all those terrific British and American New Wave groups...there were great new songs on the radio every day...it was almost impossible to keep up with the prolific output.

Then...Nirvana. SCREEEEEEEECH!!!!!! That's my take...it's never been the same since the grunge and gangsta rappers took over. :razz:

But then I also got old. Is it just bitterness that keeps me from enjoying today's music??? Hmmmmm???? :razz:

**SandraDee** · October 25th, 2002, 02:58 PM

Looks like we're destined to live in the past Marky with our memories! Does that make us tasteful romantics or sad twonks?

**SandraDee** · October 25th, 2002, 03:01 PM

I really can't decide whether we dont like grunge, indie, techno & gangsta (c)rap because we're older or if it is really just crud!

**Nano** · October 25th, 2002, 05:24 PM

Perfect pop for me can't be repeated, so it's about recordings and these listed below are for me so perfect & flawless it's no wonder these guys decided at some time to stop playing live:

THE BEATLES - While my guitar gently weeps
THE BEATLES - Got to get you into my life
THE BEATLES - Strawberry fields forever
THE BEATLES - Abbey Road (complete album)
STEELY DAN - Hey nineteen
STEELY DAN - Deacon blues
STEELY DAN - Reeling in the years
STEELY DAN - Kid Charlemagne
XTC - That wave
XTC - Dear God
XTC - Take this town
XTC - Oranges and lemons (complete album)

Others defied the stage, however:

GERRY RAFFERTY - Right down the line
BILLY JOEL - My life
THE POLICE - Walking on the moon
TALKING HEADS - And she was (sadly overplayed)
THE CURE - The lovecats
THE CURE - Close to me

There are others...

**SandraDee** · October 25th, 2002, 05:36 PM

Love your Steely Dan selections Nano (not surprising really!). I've never thought of them as 'pop' but whatever they're classed as they are one of the best music acts of all time IMO. Their influence on pop,funk,dance,rock & even rap(De La Soul sampled them!) always amazes me but they never seem to get recognized in the media for this.
Donald Fagen for president! (I'm obsessed aren't I?!)

_________________
IF THERE'S A CURE FOR THIS I DON'T WANT IT.

[ This Message was edited by: Steely Dan on 2002-10-25 18:42 ]

**zeca azevedo** · October 25th, 2002, 10:08 PM

Hey guys,

greats posts here. THE BEATLES is the best pop group EVER... They made tons of classic tunes like ALL MY LOVING, LET IT BE, NOWHERE MAN (my favorite Beatle song), DRIVE MY CAR, YESTERDAY, PENNY LANE, I FEEL FINE... The list goes on and on. McCartney is the best pop composer of the 20th century, not an easy choice - there's Cole Porter, Bacharach, Brian Wilson, Phil Spector...

PHIL SPECTOR! Nobody can talk about perfect pop music without talking about this tortured & talented musician, composer and record producer. THE consumate pop genius, Mr. Spector recorded tons of perfect pop gems with groups like THE CRYSTALS and THE RONETTES, among others artists. The compilation THE BEST OF THE RONETTES is one of the greatest pop records ever released, as great as THE SUPREMES' Anthology. And his CHRISTMAS ALBUM is another pop masterpiece...

About ABBA: another great pop group. They took Spector's formula of pop music and gave it a 70's face. For me, DANCING QUEEN and HONEY HONEY are perfect pop songs, EVERY part of these songs are exactly where they oughta be. Benny & Björn knew everything about pop music, no doubt about it. Another perfect pop song by ABBA: KNOWING ME, KNOWING YOU - I always liked this one.

Elton John - another gifted pop melodist, for sure. He has a catalog full of perfect pop melodies. My favorites are (in no particular order): YOUR SONG (of course), MICHELLE'S SONG, FRIENDS, BLUES FOR MY BABY AND ME, MONA LISAS, ROCKET MAN, PINKY, TOWER OF BABEL, another list that goes on & on...

One recent song that I call perfect pop is ANGELS, by Robbie Williams, a big ballad like the ones Elton John recorded in the early 70's. I really dig this song.

zeca azevedo, livin' a real pop life (everybody needs a thrill...)

[ This Message was edited by: zeca azevedo on 2002-10-25 23:09 ]

Marcio** · October 25th, 2002, 10:52 PM

I think this songs are almost perfects in the pop:

1)"Dancin'On A Saturday Night"/Barry Blue, 1973

2)"Is This The End"/New Edition,1983

3)"Caminando Por La Calle"/Gipsy Kings/1989

("Disco Stomp" is very pop, I guess)

.

**markydefad** · October 25th, 2002, 10:57 PM

This thread is right up my alley. LOVE this stuff. I very much respect all the examples given thus far--let me add a few more specific titles I think would qualify for the title of PERFECT POP:

WILL YOU STILL LOVE ME TOMORROW? (Gerry Goffin/Carole King) Originally recorded by The Shirelles; another favorite version of mine is from Carole King's "Tapesty" LP with James Taylor & Joni Mitchell providing backup.

UP ON THE ROOF - (Goffin/King) originally by The Drifters; James Taylor & Laura Nyro have also recorded lovely covers.

BE MY BABY - (Phil Spector, Ellie Greenwich, & Jeff Barry) By The Ronettes (Brian Wilson's favorite record of all time)

GOD ONLY KNOWS - The Beach Boys
(You Make Me Feel Like) A NATURAL WOMAN - (Goffin/King) Aretha Franklin
THE LOOK OF LOVE (Bacharach/David) - Dusty Springfield
SON OF A PREACHER MAN - Dusty Springfield
BRIDGE OVER TROUBLED WATER (Paul Simon) - Simon & Garfunkel or Aretha Franklin.
LET IT BE (Lennon/McCartney) - The Beatles or Aretha Franklin
SOMEONE SAVED MY LIFE TONIGHT - Elton John (I keep hearing this on TV in trailers for new movies)
MY GIRL or JUST MY IMAGINATION - The Temptations
LET'S STAY TOGETHER - Al Green
CALIFORNIA DREAMIN' - The Mamas & The Papas
CHAPEL OF LOVE - The Dixie Cups
HE'S SO FINE - The Chiffons
ONE FINE DAY - The Chiffons
BREAK UP TO MAKE UP - The Stylistics (Thom Bell heaven)
LOVE TRAIN - The O'Jays (Gamble/Huff heaven)

OK, that's just a few...but you get the idea

Now I'll be thinking of more all weekend!!!

**zeca azevedo** · October 25th, 2002, 11:14 PM

On 2002-10-25 23:57, markydefad wrote:
This thread is right up my alley. LOVE this stuff. I very much respect all the examples given thus far--let me add a few more specific titles I think would qualify for the title of PERFECT POP:

WILL YOU STILL LOVE ME TOMORROW? (Gerry Goffin/Carole King) Originally recorded by The Shirelles; another favorite version of mine is from Carole King's "Tapesty" LP with James Taylor & Joni Mitchell providing backup.

UP ON THE ROOF - (Goffin/King) originally by The Drifters; James Taylor & Laura Nyro have also recorded lovely covers.

BE MY BABY - (Phil Spector, Ellie Greenwich, & Jeff Barry) By The Ronettes (Brian Wilson's favorite record of all time)

GOD ONLY KNOWS - The Beach Boys
(You Make Me Feel Like) A NATURAL WOMAN - (Goffin/King) Aretha Franklin
THE LOOK OF LOVE (Bacharach/David) - Dusty Springfield
SON OF A PREACHER MAN - Dusty Springfield
BRIDGE OVER TROUBLED WATER (Paul Simon) - Simon & Garfunkel or Aretha Franklin.
LET IT BE (Lennon/McCartney) - The Beatles or Aretha Franklin
SOMEONE SAVED MY LIFE TONIGHT - Elton John (I keep hearing this on TV in trailers for new movies)
MY GIRL or JUST MY IMAGINATION - The Temptations
LET'S STAY TOGETHER - Al Green
CALIFORNIA DREAMIN' - The Mamas & The Papas
CHAPEL OF LOVE - The Dixie Cups
HE'S SO FINE - The Chiffons
ONE FINE DAY - The Chiffons
BREAK UP TO MAKE UP - The Stylistics (Thom Bell heaven)
LOVE TRAIN - The O'Jays (Gamble/Huff heaven)

OK, that's just a few...but you get the idea

Now I'll be thinking of more all weekend!!!

Hey Marky,

I love all the songs you've mentioned in your post. You're right on the spot here. I'm a big sucker for a pop melody, you know. BTW, about UP ON THE ROOF: one of the most gorgeous pop songs ever written, this classic has its definitive version in my opinion in Carole King's version - it brings tears to my eyes everytime I hear Carloe singin' "Tonite the stars put on a show for free/ And darlin' you can share it all with me..." Beautiful, lovely stuff! Talking about pop legends - CAROLE KING! The queen of pop, without a doubt!

And Dusty Springfield? Her recording of SOME OF YOUR LOVIN' (another pop gem penned by who? Yes, Carole King again!) is a pop masterpiece too. And Dusty recorded more pop classics: WISHIN' AND HOPIN', STAY AWHILE, I ONLY WANT TO BE WITH YOU... Her album DUSTY IN MEMPHIS is one of my favorite pop records, I never get tired of hearing it (and I'm hearing this album for more than 15 years, as long as I can remember).

Let's keep talking about pop!

zeca azevedo, a lancelot link fan, no doubt about it

[ This Message was edited by: zeca azevedo on 2002-10-26 00:15 ]

**markydefad** · October 26th, 2002, 12:13 AM

Here's some more:

I HEARD IT THROUGH THE GRAPEVINE (Norman Whitfield & Barrett Strong) - Marvin Gaye (the DEFINITIVE version, I think)

REACH OUT- I'LL BE THERE (Holland - Dozier-Holland) The Four Tops

RESPECT (Otis Redding) - Aretha Franklin

NOWHERE TO RUN (H-D-H) - Martha & The Vandellas

ONLY THE LONELY/CRYING/ OH, PRETTY WOMAN - Roy Orbison

AIN'T NO MOUNTAIN HIGH ENOUGH(Ashford & Simpson) - Marvin Gaye & Tammi Terrell OR Miss Ross (ALL of M& T's duets qualify, I think)

BILLIE JEAN - Michael Jackson

WHEN DOVES CRY - Prince

DON'T WORRY BABY - The Beach Boys

PEOPLE GOT TO BE FREE - The Rascals

IF YOU DON'T KNOW ME BY NOW - Harold Melvin & the Blue Notes

OH GIRL - the Chi-Lites

WALK ON BY - Dionne Warwick

LOVE CHILD - Diana Ross & The Supremes

I CAN'T STAND THE RAIN - Ann Peebles

MIGHTY LOVE - The Spinners

AIN'T TOO PROUD TO BEG - The Temptations

GROOVIN' - The Rascals

TIME AFTER TIME - Cyndi Lauper

SEXUAL HEALING - Marvin Gaye

YOU MAKE ME FEEL BRAND NEW - The Stylistics

ELEANOR RIGBY - the Beatles

RUBY TUESDAY/BROWN SUGAR/ HONKY TONK WOMEN - the Rolling Stones

LEADER OF THE PACK - the Shangri-las

RIKKI, DON'T LOSE THAT NUMBER - Steely Dan

YOU'RE SO VAIN - Carly Simon

YOU'RE NO GOOD - Linda Ronstadt

WILD NIGHT - Van Morrison

MORE THAN THIS - Roxy Music

THE LOOK OF LOVE - ABC

SWEET DREAMS (ARE MADE OF THIS) - Eurythmics

EVERY BREATH YOU TAKE - the Police

BETTE DAVIS EYES - Kim Carnes

LIFE IN THE FAST LANE - The Eagles

FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH - Buffalo Springfield

LOVE AND HAPPINESS - Al Green

WALK AWAY RENEE/ PRETTY BALLERINA - Left Banke

YESTERDAY/ FOR NO ONE/ HERE, THERE & EVERYWHERE - the Beatles

OK...it's someone else's turn....

**NickNack** · October 26th, 2002, 07:48 PM

On 2002-10-26 01:13, markydefad wrote:
Here's some more:

I HEARD IT THROUGH THE GRAPEVINE (Norman Whitfield & Barrett Strong) - Marvin Gaye (the DEFINITIVE version, I think)

Great lists from everybody. And Marky, I love Marvin as a choice but disagree with your description. I know his cover was dynamically different from Gladys but for me, I always enjoyed the song more the way she originally delivered it and the way it was originally written and played.

Now --- POP lists. How come I haven't seen any 5th Dimension or Friends of Distinction?

The 5th:

STONED SOUL PICNIC
ONE LESS BELL TO ANSWER
AQUARIUS/LET THE SUNSHINE IN
UP, UP AND AWAY

The Friends:

GRAZING IN THE GRASS
LOVE ME OR LET ME BE LONELY
GOING IN CIRCLES
Plus, the group's covers of "And I Love Him (Her)" and "Eli's Coming".

Speaking of 'Eli'...

Three Dog Night:

ONE
EASY TO BE HARD
CELEBRATE
MAMA TOLD ME (NOT TO COME)
JOY TO THE WORLD

Others (I'm sifting through my collection):

JAY/THE AMERICANS - COME A LITTLE BIT CLOSER
SHIRLEY ELLIS - THE NAME GAME
DIONNE WARWICK - WALK ON BY

THE TOYS - A LOVER'S CONCERTO
JACKIE DESHANNON - WHAT THE WORLD NEEDS NOW IS LOVE
LITTLE ANTHONY/IMPERIALS - HURT SO BAD
AARON NEVILLE - TELL IT LIKE IT IS
MAMAS AND PAPAS - CALIFORNIA DREAMIN'
SOUL SURVIVORS - EXPRESSWAY TO YOUR HEART
MIRIAM MAKEBA - PATA PATA
BOX TOPS - CRY LIKE A BABY
MERRILEE RUSH/TURNABOUTS - ANGEL OF THE MORNING
THE FOUNDATIONS - BABY, NOW THAT I FOUND YOU
JACKSON FIVE - I WANT YOU BACK
BLOOD, SWEAT & TEARS - SPINNING WHEEL
THE GUESS WHO - THESE EYES

Tell me if you think Ms. Clarkson's "Moment..." will hold up to some of these.

_________________
I'm FULL OF FIRE, (Full of Fire, full of fire...)
Nicky

[ This Message was edited by: NickNack on 2002-10-26 20:51 ]

**DISCODISK** · October 26th, 2002, 08:24 PM

good topic ZECA !
ill add a few
1/NA NA HEY HEY-steam
2/MAMMA TOLD ME [NOT TO COME]-three dog night[NICKY took the words out of my mouth]a song i know I should have listened to the lyrics :grin:
3/RIDE A WHITE SWAN-t .rex
4/SPIRIT IN THE SKY-norman greenbaum
5/ONE NIGHT IN HEAVEN-m people
6/HOW CAN I LOVE YOU MORE[sacha]-m-people

**SandraDee** · October 27th, 2002, 07:46 AM

DD, 'One Night in Heaven' is one of my favourites of the 90s, & the m is for Manchester!

**jim** · October 27th, 2002, 04:37 PM

On 2002-10-25 15:56, markydefad wrote:
Gawd, Steely Dan...

How could I forget ABBA!!!! Perfect example of pop craftsmanship taking the Brill Building sound of the early 1960's and crafting ear candy of a very high caliber for the entire 1970's into the early 1980's.

Another great single,well one that never was is Led Zeppelin's Stairway to Heaven which at 7:55 would have been a GREAT canidate for a 12 inch single!

And then all those terrific British and American New Wave groups...there were great new songs on the radio every day...it was almost impossible to keep up with the prolific output.

Then...Nirvana. SCREEEEEEEECH!!!!!! That's my take...it's never been the same since the grunge and gangsta rappers took over. :razz:

You hit it right on the nose. I don't care for gansta rap either. I do love the old Sugarhill stuff and early Run DMC.
To me rock n roll died around the early 90s and disco is VERY much part of rock n roll,as least as I define it.

But then I also got old. Is it just bitterness that keeps me from enjoying today's music??? Hmmmmm???? :razz:

Today it really isn't music persay a good tune here and there but performers of today are more in it to make money as opposed to making good music.

**sutnop** · October 27th, 2002, 04:47 PM

really don't know if it classifies in the category but I like

Na Na Na Hey Kiss him Goodbye - Steam
Toco me voy - Bersuit
Ain't No Mountain High Enough - Marvin Gaye and Tammy terrel
Up and Around the bend - Credence Clearwater
Jimmy Dean - Troll

**Nano** · October 27th, 2002, 05:02 PM

All of the above are great songs... let me make a few more choices.
Paul McCartney and Elton John are two exceptional pop songwriters. Let me add a name to that list: Billy Joel. There are tons of songs to name, like these ones:

-She's got a way
-Just the way you are
-Big shot
-My life
-C'est toi (you were the one)
-This is the time
-Piano man
-It's still rock and roll to me
-(Moving out) Anthony's song
-Uptown girl...

Thinking about the 90's, it's true grunge went against the very attributes of pop craftmanship (synthesis, form perfection, etc.), but there are a few valuable composers nonetheless. One of them is Evan Dando, the singer/composer of The Lemonheads. Has very good songs like "It's about time", "Big gay heart" or "It's a shame about Ray". Wilco could be another case. And less we forget "1979", a beautiful song by none other than The Smashing Pumpkins!
Maybe the last time a perfect pop song glued into my head without ever knowing about their creators was when I heard "Lovefool" of The Cardigans on the radio for the first time. That song is so perfect that, even being heavily overplayed, still do the trick for me. And the arrangement, production, etc., simple as they are, they're just perfect for the song.
Just my 2 centavos...

**california mike** · October 27th, 2002, 06:14 PM

it's great to see so much appreciation for pop music here, and that it doesn't have to mean easy listening.
dusty springfield has and will always be one of my favorites. she has recorded more than a few carole king compositions, mentioned was the great "some of your lovin'", but also a favorite is "goin' back". and several songs on the "dust in memphis" album. carole has one of the most amazing catalogs of song co-writing credits with gerry goffin.

three dog night and fifth dimension were mentioned, but songwriters deserve more credit, they had hits with songs written by laura nyro, who also wrote "stoney end" and "and when i die".

mentioning fifth dimension, have to give an ovation to jimmy webb who has written many classics(mac arthur park). thank you johnny rivers for discovering and recognizing jimmy's talents.

paul williams, besides the carpenters having hits with his compsitions.he also wrote hits for three dog night.

leon russell, yes he wrote "this masquerade", " a song for you" and "superstar"

and credit to the newer writers also such as allee willis, and diane warren.

**california mike** · October 27th, 2002, 06:23 PM

someone mention the spoons. always did like "south american vacation" and "nova heart".

**markydefad** · October 27th, 2002, 06:39 PM

While we're praising the talents of the glorious Dusty Springfield...I wanna mention her version of "Just One Smile" by Randy Newman on "Dusty In Memphis" (also covered by Gene Pitney). Gorgeous song and vocal.

Anyone know Dusty's "Cameo" LP from the early 1970's on Dunhill??? This was always a fave of mine (it was recently released on CD under another title..."Beautiful Soul: The ABC/Dunhill Collection")... the whole LP, mostly written and totally-produced by Dennis Lambert & Brian Potter, is there along with assorted bonus cuts.

Check out "Who Gets Your Love", "Breaking Up a Happy Home", "Easy Evil" (by Alan O'Day) "Mama's Little Girl", "The Other Side Of Life" ( by Bread's David Gates), "Of All the Things", "Who Could Be Loving You", "I Just Wanna Be There (by Ashford & Simpson) and especially a blue-eyed soul-drenched version of Van Morrison's "Tupelo Honey" with Memphis horns and those great black female back-up vocals (Clydie King, Venetta Fields (the dark cookies in Barbra's "Oreos"!!), Sherlie Mathews and Myrna Mathews).

This is a beauty, folks!!! And it sold squat. :roll:

_________________
Make My Feet Wanna Dance!

Markydefad

[ This Message was edited by: markydefad on 2002-10-27 22:34 ]

**california mike** · October 27th, 2002, 06:40 PM

a few additional 60's pop favorites:

the walker brothers - the sun ain't gonna shine anymore
the righteous brothers - you've lost that lovin' feelin'

Marcio** · October 27th, 2002, 08:59 PM

Talking about 60's pop songs Stelly Dan remember The Archies, "Sugar Sugar" and I remember "Melody Hill", Markydefad remember The Mamas & The Papas, "Califonia Dreammin'" and I remember "I Got A Fellin'" and the husband of DONNA SUMMER, I think his name is Georgio, has a 60's pop song, "Lucky Lucky".

.