BPM

[PeanutVendor]

does anyone remember the Disco Beats / Dance Beats BPM service?? If you were a subscriber you could get weekly printouts of the BPM of every disco track in the market. Very useful for working Dj's at the time [ late 70's - early 80's] That was way before the internet, but I would be very interested to know if any bright spark has ever archived that material online - it would certainly make putting together coherent retro sets a lot easier!! any thoughts??/

[DanceMan]

Hi Peanut Vendor - (also, the name of one of the best songs that first introduced us to The Ritchie Family)....

Tom Lewis started that subscription service back in the late 70s and even produced a couple of Disco Beat books....I loved the fact that he sorted it in various ways: (the song, artist, label, beats-per-minute) alphabetically by song, then alphabetically by artist, then by record label, then he sorted each song from slowest to fastest (BPMs).....the edition that I have came out in July 1979 where he was selling them and signing up subscribers at the Billboard Disco Convention at the NY Hilton Hotel...anyone remember that one?

His Disco Beats is still a useful tool for any DJs and remixers who might be just getting into the biz and looking to have their collection grow.....

Do you know if Tom is still around and what he might be doing...I would love to speak to him about the book that I am doing....?

[SandraDee]

Danceman, what book is this? Will it contain salacious gossip? My partner's always saying I should write a book on disco music 'cos he thinks I'm dead knowledgable & should put it to use but compared to alot of people on this site I feel amateur! I bet many contributors here could write very entertaining books!

[BrunoRepublic]

On 2002-09-25 17:50, Steely Dan wrote:
I bet many contributors here could write very entertaining books!

Actually, one of them already has...

[DanceMan]

Well....without going into much detail...it is mostly about the disco music of the 70's/the industry/the nigthlife and it will be written from a Gay perspective, so I am having problems within that area in re to publishing, believe it or not.....disco? gay? whodotaut?

And for a change from most tomes on the subject...I am NOT devoting more than a possible paragraph to the DRUG CULTURE...as music was my way of life and it was the only thing that controlled me....it always bothers me that people equate GAY + DISCO = DRUGS....oh puhleeze...shows you the kinds of people that they hung around with....as much as I loved Mel Cheren's book about the Garage...and I know he was only being truthful....it really wore on me that he was so heavily into the drug lifestyle and didn't seem to be embarrassed by it...it kinda puts a damper on a musical culture which was created to cultivate happiness and good feelings amid the dancers....and we wonder why we get lumped into these categories...when, unfortunately, many of our own helped foster that image in the first place...

[markydefad]

But Danceman... I realize that SOME people discoed WITHOUT drugs...BUT doncha think they were the minority??? Hey it was the 70's--the folks that wrote, produced, and most of the singers were "party-people". God knows, the book "Tribes" about the SF music scene (Moby Dick, Megatone, Boystown Gang, Patrick Cowley, etc.) devotes lotsa space to the fact that most of the key players started the party on Thursday night and came down on the following Tuesday...took Wdnesday off to recuperate...and started the party again Thursday night. How any work ever got done at Moby Dick or Megatone Records is impossible to figure out....cause most everyone was loaded all the time. Granted, that's what put them out of business eventually...BUT they were in the game for a good amount of time. I gotta get that book out for specific details---BUT it was waaaay outta control. I don't think that was the only place where "party people" ruled the scene. Was it????

[PeanutVendor]

Hi DanceMan thanks for the quick reply - is that book still available anywhere I wonder. I can not find any satisfactory 70's/early 80's bpm listings online. any thoughts?

[BrunoRepublic]

Make that two, then...

[totoman]

does anyone know if that book "Tribes" is still in print and available. I would love to get a copy of that to read. I remember all that music at the time I discovered clubs and to read about behind the scenes would be fascinating. It's strange but here in the UK I never came across drug culture (apart from poppers) connected to clubs until the advent of ecstasy use in the late eighties/early nineties

toto

[markydefad]

Totoman...

Sadly, I don't think the "Tribes" (actually "Tribal Rites") book is in print anymore. I know Keefe searched all over and could not find it.

As for BPM's on the web....I will once again mention Peter von Roomen's webpage that includes "The Disco Classic BPM List" starting with "Fantasy" by Earth, Wind & Fire and ending with "Lovin' Is Really My Game" by Brainstorm. I printed this out several years ago and have repeatedly used it as a shopping list and reference guide. Now, there are some errors on this list--BUT, for the most part it's a good cross-sampling of 12" singles in BPM order. The Lou Rawls "You'll Never Find Another Love Like Mine" is NOT 125 BPM--BUT that's the most egregious error. If you have nothing else to use as a reference...it's a great place to start.

(The correct link for this site appears in several posts. Go to the next page and click down til Peanut vendor reveals it...)
_________________
Make My Feet Wanna Dance!

Markydefad

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: markydefad on 2002-09-28 00:03 ]</font>

[QUINNY]

Peanut Vendor: Many Dj mixers have built in BPM counters now. Do they work very well with less regimented, less well engineered Disco records? I personally don't know, but would be interested if anyone has used them, with what results. The idea of having that available appeals to me. For a few hundred dollars you'd have a permanent resource that you could use over and over again.

[paul]

On 2002-09-25 21:28, markydefad wrote:
But Danceman... I realize that SOME people discoed WITHOUT drugs...BUT doncha think they were the minority??? Hey it was the 70's--the folks that wrote, produced, and most of the singers were "party-people". God knows, the book "Tribes" about the SF music scene (Moby Dick, Megatone, Boystown Gang, Patrick Cowley, etc.) devotes lotsa space to the fact that most of the key players started the party on Thursday night and came down on the following Tuesday...took Wdnesday off to recuperate...and started the party again Thursday night. How any work ever got done at Moby Dick or Megatone Records is impossible to figure out....cause most everyone was loaded all the time. Granted, that's what put them out of business eventually...BUT they were in the game for a good amount of time. I gotta get that book out for specific details---BUT it was waaaay outta control. I don't think that was the only place where "party people" ruled the scene. Was it????

Hey Marky. Let me through in my 2 cents on the drug thing, especially since I mention it from time to time. I and I suspect many of us indulged in various drugs. However, in the circles I hung out with, it was never more so than the alcohol most everyone consumes but hardly notices. Rarely and I do mean rarely did I come into a situation where someone was so drugged out they were anti-social or did things they didn't want to do. The rare moments someone became wildly out of control it was mostly alcohol related or a combo of drugs and alcohol.
When I first started going to the Discos I never touched any drugs because I challenged myself to do it for at least one year. After that year all hell broke loose OK, I'm exaggerating but I got high and it only elevated the good vibes felt at the discos.
I just wanted to share this because I didn't want the younger readers to think it was all about being drugged out. The music was at the heart of the good times. The sex and drugs heightened that positive feeling even more so.

[markydefad]

Absolutely, Paul....

I was never sloppy, falling-down, out of it, either. (Though SOME were). I had too much pride to be a mess; I would have been mortified. It was as an enhancement and mainly for energy-purposes that I used stimulants for dancing. I never really had a drug problem--didn't use except when partying--and one day decided it was time to stop and gave it all up. Now, maybe I don't have that addictive a personality, cause I never really had a problem with alcohol either. One confession, though...I STILL love poppers. :grin:

[keefelc]

Mark, I thought the book was called "Tribal Rites"?

As for the drug scene back then, I was like you and Paul - in moderation and usually for energy purposes. However, I know alot of my friends, although rarely sloppy, really became addicted. The quantities of the stuff they took always surprised and worried me.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: keefelc on 2002-09-26 21:10 ]</font>

[DanceMan]

I guess drugs will be and are still around at these circuit parties and elsewhere that the young kids are attending today....youth is youth, no matter what decade or style of music that is being played....so some will experiment and reach a level of tolerance or dismiss it altogether at some point (hopefully).....Personally, since I was trained as a dancer early on even before the disco era, music itself was so much the drug for me and to think of altering my concentration and to lose my sense of balance - even for a second was unthinkable for me...had nothing to do with it being legal or illegal, and I am by far no prude...just didn't appreciate being lumped into a category that I feel wasn't what being a gay disco babe was all about.

[PeanutVendor]

markydefad: really useful list thankyou muchly. not exhaustive by any means but very handy nonetheless. I know mixers like the Pioneer have a bpm readout function but to me there is no substitute for flipping through a bpm-graded list a few hours ahead of time and visualizing how certain combinations might work. The quest for the Disco Beats lists goes on, though: that's the real deal.

[markydefad]

Oops, maybe I have more brain damage than I thought!!!! :lol:

The book is called "Tribal Rites" (1987/Audiosis Publishing-S.F.) by David Diebold, who was a member of Boystown Gang for a while...or so he says. :grin:

Does that link to the van Roomen BPM list work? I just tried it and couldn't get anywhere???

[PeanutVendor]

sorry forgot to mention that link didnt work, but after some poking around on google i found it on : http://home.conceptsfa.nl/~pvanro/index.htm

enjoy

[PeanutVendor]

Actually I just remembered that BPM printout service was called DISCO BIBLE. I used to get it sent to me regularly for several years but somehow the whole lot got lost. I can find nothing at all about this remarkable service on the internet apart from a couple of times people being interviewed mentioning it in passing reference. That's strange because the service was based on a computerized printout, so all of that data must be on a computer somewhere out there.
I'm on a mission to find it and would appreciate any help from you guys in this esteemed forum.

[QUINNY]

Peanut Vendor: I'm assuming that you're a working DJ. Why don't you just get the records out and start BPMing yourself?
Besides in mixers, there are stand alone BPM counters these days, aren't there? So you don't even have to count the beats for a whole minute. I reckon you could probably do at least 40 in an hour.

The most fastidious BPM guides (in the UK) were those by James Hamilton in Record Mirror. He would have BPMs for different sections of a disc if it changed. Not always accurate, but all BPMs do is give you a vague idea of what might go with what.
e.g. T Connection - Do What You Wanna Do would not go well with say D. Train - You're The One For Me although similar BPMs.
Sorry if this is teaching you how to suck eggs.

OR MAYBE WE SHOULD MAKE OUR OWN BPM BIBLE VIA THIS SITE? see new thread.

[PeanutVendor]

Quinny: I am pretty much up to speed with the BPM's of the stuff I play but I seem to be coming across records that I had lost over time and being lazy and aware that Disco Bible is so utterly complete and comprehensive I decided to look for it again. Of course these days the Pioneer mixers etc do give you a BPM readout, so that does come in handy, but no substitute for a hard copy of Disco Bible, which allows one to 'browse' potential sets in your head by scanning the pages. Excellent idea to buid our own in the meanwhile, though. I will certainly post what I have and can find.

[Mixmachine]

I used to BPM my own records, never used any of those services, you can time them in 30 seconds and double the beats total, you could then use a marker and write in big fonts the record’s name and BPM on a piece of masking tape and taped it across the front cover’s edge, this method made it easy to see and find in the darkness of a DJ booth, the only draw back is that it will deface your covers and cut into the future value of your vinyl. Maybe they have now a different kind of tape easy to remove once you retire the record. (Painters tape?).
I still have here my old beat up handwritten BPM bible, still use it to refresh my memory when posters here mention certain 70’s and 80’s records, I used to scan through it while mixing back in those days, but later around ’83 I gave it up and went directly to my record bins for ideas, it was quite a chore to keep updating it.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mixmachine on 2002-09-27 23:15 ]</font>

[markydefad]

I used to just BPM for 30 seconds and then multiply by 2 for years--BUT, then you always get even numbers...and I found that the final result could vary by one or sometimes two beats up or down--which was frustrating to a "punter" attempting to learn to mix...SOOOO a few years ago, I started timing for a full minute and getting the exact BPM or at least as close as I could get. AND, I figured that if I used the same watch (currently the clock on my microwave, I kid you NOT) at least MY figures would be as accurate or inaccurate as all my others.

I wait til the microwave minute digital reading changes and then start counting until it changes again. Then I double check it with a watch. YES, I AM ANAL. :roll:

But, honestly--except for the few DJ's here--do the rest of the crowd REALLY CARE what the BPM's of certain songs are??? I wonder.

What happened to our plans to establish the Disco encyclopedia here on this site with complete discographies and years of releases, etc.... BPM's, I guess, would fit into that also???

We were all sooo excited...and then....what happened???? I'm just askin!!!

(Idea: we could split into teams and each take certain areas and start compiling data, eh Bernie?...what's the plan????)




_________________
Make My Feet Wanna Dance!

Markydefad

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: markydefad on 2002-09-28 00:20 ]</font>

[PeanutVendor]

If done properly the BPM list is a seperate universe by itself. The best and most comprehensive way would be to see if Tom Lewis is still around and get his OK to put the whole disco bible archive online right on this site. that would be a world first and the most awesome archive ever.

[SandraDee]

Quinnykins, I really miss James Hmilton in Record Mirror. He was so good wasnt he? I didnt start clubbing 'til '84-ish so before that I used to read about all the imported records in his column & try to hear them on Radio Luxembourg or Robbie Vincent's show on Radio 1 (fab fm!), as well as making purchases on his recommendation without hearing them & I was rarely disappointed.
Sorry I've strayed from the topic again Havent I? (slapped wrists)